Customers of broadband ISP TalkTalk are up in arms after discovering that the providers strict Traffic Management measures do not allow them to use the newly launched cloud-based gaming service from OnLive during peak hours (6PM to 12AM/Midnight).OnLive is a clever service that allows customers to remotely play the latest PC, PlayStation 3 (PS3) and XBox 360 (360) games, without actually needing to own them, via a live internet video stream. It recently launched in the UK as part of an exclusive deal with BT (here) but can still be used through other ISPs.
OnLive's service requires a lot of bandwidth (broadband speed) to function (3Mbps to 5Mbps) and also makes use of the often unfairly demonised P2P (Peer-2-Peer File Sharing) protocol. P2P is also used by thousands of legitimate services, such as the online game World of Warcraft (WoW) and Valve's STEAM Digital Distribution platform.
Unfortunately TalkTalk, like a lot of other budget conscious broadband ISPs, makes no bones about its dislike for P2P and does impose restrictions (i.e. "slowed down") upon any related services. The provider has had similar problems with WoW and other legitimate P2P based games and services in the past, although most of those are considerably less bandwidth hungry than OnLive.
TalkTalk's Fair Usage Policy
A very small number of customers use an excessive amount of the network bandwidth at peak times, to the extent it can impair the performance for others. For this reason we have a fair usage policy designed to ensure your service stays fast and reliable 24 hours a day – it involves monitoring the amount customers download and managing non-time critical traffic on our network, such as Peer-to-Peer sharing.
If a customer’s usage is continually excessive, unfair, affects other users enjoyment of our broadband service, or is not consistent with the usage we would typically expect on that customers current package, we reserve the right to upgrade customers to a package more suited for their usage. In extreme cases we may suspend or terminate the customers ability to access TalkTalk’s broadband service.
A very small number of customers use an excessive amount of the network bandwidth at peak times, to the extent it can impair the performance for others. For this reason we have a fair usage policy designed to ensure your service stays fast and reliable 24 hours a day – it involves monitoring the amount customers download and managing non-time critical traffic on our network, such as Peer-to-Peer sharing.
If a customer’s usage is continually excessive, unfair, affects other users enjoyment of our broadband service, or is not consistent with the usage we would typically expect on that customers current package, we reserve the right to upgrade customers to a package more suited for their usage. In extreme cases we may suspend or terminate the customers ability to access TalkTalk’s broadband service.
The good news is that TalkTalk is often able to make exceptions in its Traffic Management system for specific applications, which it has had to do several times before. According to a post on OnLiveFans, TalkTalk have since said that they "are aware of the onlive issues and are working on a fix".
Despite this issue it is still very important to stress that the OnLive service, irrespective of using P2P, can easily consume vast amounts of data and in a very short period of time. We have seen some ISPs report that users go from a modest consumption (20-40GB) to eating up hundreds of GigaByte's within a single month, which many budget providers would find unsustainable.
Quite simply OnLive damages the model that a lot of providers use and even BT's traffic management policy exception for the service will only last for a few months, after which similar problems could arise. It remains to be seen whether OnLive will succeed in the UK, especially given our often woeful broadband infrastructure, although a few ISPs will probably be hoping that it doesn't.
UPDATE 1st October 2011
TalkTalk has just furnished us with the following statement.
A TalkTalk Spokesperson said:
"Unfortunately the recently launched OnLive gaming service was incorrectly identified as a peer-to-peer application. We’ve changed this and are currently testing with customers. We apologise for the inconvenience this has caused."
"Unfortunately the recently launched OnLive gaming service was incorrectly identified as a peer-to-peer application. We’ve changed this and are currently testing with customers. We apologise for the inconvenience this has caused."
So hopefully it's playable now.
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Comments: 22
MarkJPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 11:05 AM
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Perhaps but a lot of VPN solutions not only cost extra money (the free ones won't cut OnLive) but will add some additional processing overhead and latency that could seriously impact how OnLive performs. It's remote input and feedback is highly sensitive to latency.
Joe JPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 11:38 AM
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I'm afraid that VPN will NOT pass an intellegent Bandwidth Management solution. Not only are they doing layer 7 protocol detection but also traffic pattern analysis, which would spot P2P even in a ecrypted VPN tunnel.
Best way is to ensure the ISP's open OnLive to us without these restrictions.
TTPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 12:03 PM
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I hate when isp's restrict things like that, what the point of paying for more restricted service. TT ought to ashamed themselves!
MarkJPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 12:55 PM
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In fairness TalkTalk is a budget ISP so that's exactly what you get, although I don't think that argument works for their 'Plus' package.. only the 'Essentials' deal.
MalcolmPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 1:24 PM
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It remains to be seen whether OnLive will succeed in the UK, especially given our often woeful broadband infrastructure, although a few ISPs will probably be hoping that it doesn't.
ISPs should hope it succeeds.
Part of the idea behind OnLive is to save gamers having to spend £1000-£1500 on a quality gaming PC, in return for a subscription fee, that defrays the cost of the "processor-in-the-cloud".
It also means the gamer uses a lot more bandwidth.
ISPs sell bandwidth. OnLive means gamers need more bandwidth, but also that they can afford to pay for it (having saved on the gaming PC cost). That's a straight transfer of gamer wallet-share from hardware manufacturers to ISPs.
RickPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 1:59 PM
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Just a thought but maybe some games should get a live and go outside and socialise.. Maybe some of the male gamers will get real girlfriends instead of virtual ones!!!! lol
GzeroPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 2:19 PM
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You should take your own advice Rick. :p
OnLive is probably not wanted by ISP's, more bandwidth usage is bad, they prefer to sell you blazing fast speeds to download your 100kb email.
MarkJPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 2:25 PM
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Rick, I think that particular image of a gamer stopped being relevant about a decade ago. It's now an accepted social norm for many children and adults alike :) . Times change.
ISPs sell bandwidth. OnLive means gamers need more bandwidth, but also that they can afford to pay for it (having saved on the gaming PC cost). That's a straight transfer of gamer wallet-share from hardware manufacturers to ISPs.
A fine principal except broadband is a shared "Best Efforts" service that, if you're on BT's platform, isn't designed to cater for a large number of users consuming lots of dynamic video traffic.
The cost argument is also over-simplified. Many gamers would spend far less on a console and get games as XMas/BDay presents or share with friends.
RickPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 2:51 PM
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@Gzero - I have taken my own advise.. I don't even play any of the games I have bought on my iphone and I maid a preety penny selling my megadrive and megaCD. I have a lovely girlfriend 1.0 but wont be upgrading to wife 2.01 anytime soon
@MarkJ - Seeing as I work for phone compay and I deal with grown men crying their eyes out that they can get on line on a friday or saturday night to pay some stupid game when they should be out with their mates...
Also I have no end of parents ringing up saying their child is upset coz they can't play online when the weather is lovely like today!!!
matthewPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 3:09 PM
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I can't see onlive being p2p based as it would never work with the latency/bandwidth requirements if it was.
GzeroPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 4:04 PM
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Contradictory to what you say Rick, you are here posting on ispreview and not out in the sun.
Honestly the thought that because someone is a gamer means they don't have a girlfriend is amazing! Yet oddly for those that are single but don't play games don't get looked down upon...
Plus you mocking people because the service that your company is not providing isn't exactly what anyone would call customer service.
GMAN99Posted: 30 September, 2011 - 8:08 PM
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As BT are a partner of Onlive of course "similar problems" won't arise after 3 months, what will happen after 3 months is that the data usage will count towards your monthly allowance, it doesn't at the moment so you have chance to try the service on any package without worrying about going over your limit
If you are on one of the lower packages it means if you want to use this service you will have to upgrade to a more suitable package, same goes for any other ISP
AgrajagPosted: 30 September, 2011 - 8:26 PM
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@GMAN99
If BT are hosting the service, then it probably wont count towards BT users' download allowances, the same way BT Vision doesn't.
I have to say, after spending some time today trying Onlive, I found it far more impressive than I thought it was going to be. Even my modest netbook could cope quite well.
MarkJPosted: 1 October, 2011 - 5:45 AM
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It's apparently now fixed. See original article.
GMAN99Posted: 1 October, 2011 - 7:58 AM
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@Agrajag it doesn't count towards download allowance until January 2nd 2012 after that it will its very heavy compared to Vision:-
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=33551&s_cid=con_ppc_maxus_vidZ60_Brand&
;vendorid=Z60#onLiveUsage
PhilTPosted: 2 October, 2011 - 10:33 AM
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"ISPs sell bandwidth" - most don't, they sell a connection with a modest amount of bandwidth.
If we paid £5/month and 50p/GB the ISPs would indeed love this. But if we're just paying £12/month come what may there's no beneficial feedback loop.
RickPosted: 3 October, 2011 - 3:16 PM
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who said I worked fro talktalk?
I said I work for a telecoms company I never mentioned anything abotu talktalk
RickPosted: 4 October, 2011 - 3:47 PM
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Bt Gzero
You clearly said:
"Plus you mocking people because the service that your company is not providing isn't exactly what anyone would call customer service."
CharleighPosted: 29 October, 2011 - 3:15 AM
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That's way more clever than I was exepcntig. Thanks!
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