Sponsored Links

My ADSL service has degraded,ISP are not interested

Today http://i.imgur.com/5wca4.jpgJuly last year http://i.imgur.com/u2VW6.jpg If you compare these DMT graphs you can clearly see the changes in the tones , and error rates, I suspect a fault within the exchange kit or tie pairs, But the my current isp will not entertain it they say that the results of their remote tests don't show any faults with it or my line, and there fore cannot escalate to openreach , more like they are
1, clueless
2 couldn't care less or both
 
Last edited:
Im guessing your isp is Be?
Your complaining about a loss of 1 mbit?!?
There are many factors which could contribute to this.
When i had dsl, the weather made a difference.
Your SNR is low.. so maybe your line dropped to a slower speed to be more stable?
Dont be so quick to blame the isp for things out of there control!
There is nothing wrong with those DMT graphs.. what do you want from old copper?? Like most metals, it does degrade over time.

Sorry if that sounds sarcastic. But I see nothing wrong with those graphs. When i was with Be, i could have 13 mbit unstable or 9 mbit stable. I chose the 9 mbit.
 
Last edited:
I don't think it has degraded, i think it down to a fault with the exchange kit ,even the tie pair, this did not gradually happen, the upstream sync is also lower too, upstream attenuation increases only after engineering work on exchange kit (the beginning of this problem) and most likely the cause,
But the so called tech support will not except that their line card may be failing,or the Tie pair may have a poor connection or some other type of fault , their remote tests are ultra reliable ,never wrong, apparently it can detect HR faults on a line to, with both phone & modem disconnected , mmm really, and i came down with the last shower too( BTW it isn't the new CDIT as not available yet )

That remote test they use is virtually useless , it is there to get the isp some ammo to fob people off , or offer to simply mask the underlying problems , so they effectively end up with a capped connection , which to some is an acceptable solution, to others like me it is not as i use the connection for gaming and the connection that i get with fastpath on is laggy enough without adding to that with interleave, plus on their sad idea for a default profile the end product becomes no longer a viable option as because of this fault the sync achievable is well below what it should be for my real line attenuation
 
Sponsored Links
Are you experiencing any real problems here, like dropped connections, high latency or a critically sharp drop in speed?

I'm on a 10-12Mbps ADSL2+ based connection but expect that the speed will fluctuate between 7Mbps to 11Mbps for all sorts of reasons.

Now if it were to go below 6-7Mbps for a long period of time (not just the occasional day) then I'd start getting annoyed but the reality is, ADSL isn't fibre, it's going to throw hissy fits, isn't reliable and your ISP will have problems or might be low on capacity.
 
I can see from the graphs that the connection clearly isn't as good as it once was, it is particularly apparent in the choppiness at higher frequencies in the new SNR x Tone graph, compared to the old. And the current error counts suggest to me that the sync rate is now too high, even though it has fallen. There are lots of factors that could cause that though, such as external sources of rf interference, increased crosstalk from an increased number of ADSL enabled lines in the cable bundle, or even deterioration of the router/PSU.

I wouldn't know, but I would be very surprised if BT Openreach would accept the fall in sync as fault, or even consider them to be outside acceptable tolerances.

My own connection used to achieve a very stable sync rate around 7,100kbps, with a low error rate. My ISP's eventually capped that to around 6,300kbps when they rolled out a DLM system, ( I considered ringing them to try to get the cap removed, but decided not to bother) but in the last couple of years, particularly in the last few months, the line has deteriorated and I now get frequent bursts of large numbers of errors, unless I cap the speed further, so I now connect between 4,000 - 6,000kbps if I want a relatively low error rate.

This shows the variation (min, max and avg) in SNR by tone on my own line over the course of a few days:-

snr%2520variation%2520by%2520tone.jpg
 
My connection has gone from one that was acceptable to me , had very few disconnects, got a speed that justified paying the price and over all was what you could regard as stable, until shortly after scheduled planned maintenance at the exchange , immediately upon the router re syncing after this work had been completed the upstream attenuation had increased by nearly 4db,
But the sync speeds where around the normal values= what they had been for over the past year, and as there was no other noticeable changes apparent to me,Apart from a slight increase in serious errors i thought no more of it, other than the router mis reporting the value, (which most routers do anyway) my actual attenuation at the Dslam on adsl2+ was 28db ds and was 13db us the router reports 32.5db ds and 15.5db us again adsl2 + with Annex m 33.5 db ds and 16.2db us

A short time later i started getting disconnections which started at 2-4 in a 24hrs period, then suddenly over 20 within a 3 hr window at that point the error rate increased significantly and the sync speed regardless of profile used had reduced , during 3 24hr monitoring sessions the disconnections still occurred and packet loss appeared even with the profile set by tech sup to default values 2 be routers , they claim that they only could see one or 2 disconnections, i have evidence to the contrary there is some underlying issue that should be checked out disconnections do not happen without a reason, all the tech support have done apart from the useless monitoring is run a standard openreach line test , that is the limits of their idea of dealing with a potential fault with their equipment or a hr type fault on my line , but as the line is quiet i cannot report a voice fault, unless i wished to loose £130 i would sooner burn it that give it openwound

Also this lower sync both upstream and downstream over the space of a week sort of repaired it's self, downloading continuously seemed to have a desirable effect ,as the attainable rate increased to a point near to normal speeds, so i re booted the router and got a near normal sync ,2 days later it's a repeat and back down to a lower sync again,
I one night a few nights ago performed some testing of my own, basically just rebooting the router over and over again, then out of the blue got full normal sync speeds and lower attenuation (upstream) the tones on the DMT tool where also back to normal, but this was very short lived, as within 30 mins it disconnected and the crap sync reappeared

Other things packet loss is nearly always there but usually only 1-2% which i have lived with, as it doesn't have much of an impact ,but by pinging several ip addresses (pingplotter) this clears but yesterday i decided not to use ping plotter, and the packetloss was 60% at one point caused a disconnect,
 
Last edited:
I only wish my tone charts were as level as yours. They used to be with my prior provider and ever since being with BE (A little over a year now) they have decayed into this complete and utter ugly mess...
1zh1cuc.png


Its only because i live close to the exchange with a nice 22db downstream attenuation that my speed is still a healthy 17000-18000kbps even on its worse day as that chart shows. Otherwise it would be a right disaster.

It still disconnects regularly no matter what BT do (including a change of tie pair since being with BE) and multiple call outs. Prior to moving to BE that was a nice level chart and the line performed perfectly (my record being over 12 months uptime without a single disconnect) with BE im beyond lucky if it stays syned for 12 days.

BE like the idiots they are say it is normal and nothing is wrong.

The other line in this house which belongs to another person is with a C&W reseller and is basically a nice level chart in DMT.

BE are just a useless provider with an unreliable product, i noticed increased latency from the day i joined BE. Sites that with my old ISP would ping in the 8-10ms range right up to the day i moved to BE on that line suddenly ping in the 20-30ms range, connection would regular drop from day one also.

I have several charts saved which show clearly how things have got worse and worse in the year ive been with BE. Its not the line either there have been 4 BT visits including one SFI visit which can not find the reason for it behaving like it does, and the charts i have saved for the 4+ years i was with my prior provider show no SNR decay and nice smooth level charts on the exact same line.

BE are just rubbish ive had more issues with them than any prior ISP. The ISP before BE i had for 4 years with NO ISSUES at all, before that i had an ISP for 2 years again NO ISSUES, no what i call connection decay.

They are just a truely dreadful ISP. Im hoping BT stick to the date this time and i get a FTTC service available at the end of march, if not ill be migrating the line to the same C&W ISP the other line here is with, and i suspect the moment i do the wonky all over the shot SNR graph will return it its normal nice level self.
 
Sponsored Links
Most of our suggestions are covered in this article, which we updated last year, but as an old member you might have read this already.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/articles/adsltips/

Certainly the repeated disconnections aren't going to help your line, although when I had similar problems a couple of years ago the only way to solve them was to do as Mel did and ask the ISP to cap my line speed at 1-2Mbps lower than it was currently running. That stopped the drops as sometimes ADSL2+ kit seems to try too hard to get the most out of a line that can't handle it.
 
Whilst i understand what you are saying this has effectively already been tried by them switching me to their default profile, that increases the Target SNR to 6.5db (both up down) and also uses interleaving on the D/S with INP st to 2 , this setting lowers both the upstream and downstream sync rates , and i end up with an annex m product that is well below the specs for line attenuation, and a connection that is useless for online gaming, thanks to their wonderful idea of peering complete with fluctuating latency
But even when on this setting and using the supplied piece of junk aka Bebox This made little difference the disconnections still occurred ,this happened twice ,

once with the older TG585V7 and again using it's replacement TG582 N they where claiming only 2 disconnects where recorded but i have the evidence that there where quite a few more , they have seen a copy of this, but still say there is no fault and then revert to the blurb based on the incorrect bt data base info for speed estimates , So regardless of which profile or adsl2+ with or without Annex m the problem was still persistent complete with dips in snr and bursts of packet loss , and currently the line isn't syncing as high as it has done for over the past 12mths, regardless of which ASDL mode (excluding G.DMT) or profiles

There is always a cause for disconnects they fail to grasp this, or plainly are not interested in getting it properly investigated by BT just as they refuse to even accept that their equipment that i'm connected to at the exchange may have a developing fault

Any good isp would of at the very least had bt engineers check the exchange kit, and probably swap line cards and tie pairs even , just to rule them out if for no other reason , my previous isp did this , and i know from reading that be used to do this without much of a fuss, maybe o2 pulling the purse strings
 
Well in my case everything in that guide and more (including rewiring part of the home with various cable types 1308 standard BT wire, cat5 and cat 6) has been tried since being with BE.

There is no issues with a second line at my property and there were no issues on the line which has BE on it until the connection was moved to BE. Previously it had over a year of uptime, now its lucky to stay synced a few days. Literally the day of the move i had several months of uptime, in my first day with BE i had 4 disconnects, and its been as rubbish as that since being with them.

Tie pairs have been swapped by BT, all internal cabling has been checked by BT (more than once) 5 different models of router have been tried (with different chipsets, including one a BT engineer kindly left me to try).

16 different ADSL filters, 3 different filtered faceplates, connecting to master or extension makes no difference to the tone charts, or how often it disconnects.

Its been tried with and without earth and ring wires connected to main socket and connected to the test test socket with no phones for 2 days..... Still disconnects.

A self made 20cm rj11 see the damn touter sits right next to the main socket has been tried, tone chart still rubbish, still disconnects.

The connection has been tried with all electrical devices in the home except for the pc and router obviously turned off.... Even removed fuses to ensure no power reached second floor in the house. No TV or lights for 2 days........ It still had 3 disconnects in those 2 days.

MY TALE OF WOE IS EVEN WORSE THAN CYCLONES........
BE HAVE PREVIOUSLY tinkered and set interleaving on and off and whacked noise margin up to a massive 15db on a 22db line attenuation still makes no difference, (my line just going by stats should in theory be better than cyclones and its worse) still disconnects, something 2 BT blokes (1 SFI included) saw and said should not happen. Errr no dah!

There is no line noise, again checked myself on multiple occasions including when its disconnected and confirmed by BT. With outside checks while visiting.

Various MTU and RWIN values have been tried, changing MAC to gain a different IP has been tried. NOTHING WORKS.

Their service is as polite as possible but blunt terms unreliable cack!

All the issues are them, im sure of it and once my service is moved i suspect it will confirm it.

BE have proven in the short time ive been with them that when it comes to configuring things they have NO CLUE AT ALL what they are doing. This is the company that tried a trial of seamless rate adaptation with interleaving applied to peoples lines. Errrrrrrr HELLO do they even know what SRA is supposed to do....... OBVIOUSLY NOT!
 
Sponsored Links
My upstream sync was about the same with my prior provider as it is with BE, around 1350kbps. That is about the only thing it matches compared to my prior provider, in every other regard it is inferior.
 
Top
Cheap BIG ISPs for 100Mbps+
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £24.00
132Mbps
Gift: None
Shell Energy UK ISP Logo
Shell Energy £26.99
109Mbps
Gift: None
Plusnet UK ISP Logo
Plusnet £27.99
145Mbps
Gift: None
Zen Internet UK ISP Logo
Zen Internet £28.00 - 35.00
100Mbps
Gift: None
Large Availability | View All
Cheapest ISPs for 100Mbps+
Gigaclear UK ISP Logo
Gigaclear £15.00
150Mbps
Gift: None
YouFibre UK ISP Logo
YouFibre £19.99
150Mbps
Gift: None
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
BeFibre UK ISP Logo
BeFibre £21.00
150Mbps
Gift: £25 Love2Shop Card
Hey! Broadband UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Large Availability | View All
Sponsored Links
The Top 15 Category Tags
  1. FTTP (5472)
  2. BT (3505)
  3. Politics (2524)
  4. Openreach (2291)
  5. Business (2251)
  6. Building Digital UK (2234)
  7. FTTC (2041)
  8. Mobile Broadband (1961)
  9. Statistics (1778)
  10. 4G (1654)
  11. Virgin Media (1608)
  12. Ofcom Regulation (1451)
  13. Fibre Optic (1392)
  14. Wireless Internet (1386)
  15. FTTH (1381)
Sponsored

Copyright © 1999 to Present - ISPreview.co.uk - All Rights Reserved - Terms  ,  Privacy and Cookie Policy  ,  Links  ,  Website Rules