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Need some advice re 3G/4G service

I use TalkTalk for my landline service which includes a broadband service.
Being rural (7km to exchange and 4km to cabinet) the low speed makes the broadband service almost unusable.

My neighbour has the same service from TalkTalk, with the same problem, so he went for 4G from EE which was installed for him (at £400 installation fee) using an outdoor external antenna. He is getting 50MB/s and is paying £40 (ish) for 50GB p/m.

Being retired I can't justify that level of expense but found a package of 40GB from Three at £20 per month.
The package includes a 'free' Huawei B310 which has facility for 2 external antenna.

On the coverage checker for the Three service it shows that we are on the perimeter of their 3G/4G service, so as the package came with a 14 day 'cooling off' period (ordered by phone) to test it out, I ordered and it arrived today.

As the coverage checker indicated the best signal was in front of the house I first tried the service with the router at a front downstairs window. It connected with 3 bars, was using 3G and reported speeds of up to 5/1 MB/s (down/up), but the connection kept dropping.

I next put the router upstairs at a front room window and this showed 1 bar, 4G with reported speeds of 10/5 MB/s.

So my questions are :

- Would an external aerial improve the reception.
- if so, would an indoor 35dbi (window mount) aerial with dual 2m cables be worth considering, or should I go for an outside 9 dbi with dual 5m cables.
- is it likely that the Three service is using the same mast as the EE service (for directional location to point the antenna).

If anyone can offer assistance I would appreciate it.
 
DTMark tends to be the resident expert when it comes to mobile broadband antennas and indeed if you look at the topics in this very section then you'll see several threads that are worth reading for related advice.

In your situation I'd say that installing a couple of external outdoor antenna or cross-polarised array/single unit on the roof / high outside wall may be the best bet, but you might need to phone the operator in order to confirm exactly which masts they're using in the area and to then identify the best one for you.

This site might be able to help too:

http://www.mastdata.com

However there are risks and challenges here. Sometimes the internal antenna on a mobile router can actually do a pretty good job on their own, which might mean very little benefit can be extracted from spending the extra money on an external setup via your roof. Not to mention the cost of having somebody install that for you. The extra kit and labour will probably end up coming in at under £200.

You might be better off just leaving the router sitting as high as possible at the upstairs front window, although the way you've described how the signal changed with elevation suggests that an external roof approach might well produce some benefit. Hopefully DTMark can see this and offer some input on the actual antenna to use.
 
DTMark tends to be the resident expert when it comes to mobile broadband antennas and indeed if you look at the topics in this very section then you'll see several threads that are worth reading for related advice.

In your situation I'd say that installing a couple of external outdoor antenna or cross-polarised array/single unit on the roof / high outside wall may be the best bet, but you might need to phone the operator in order to confirm exactly which masts they're using in the area and to then identify the best one for you.

This site might be able to help too:

http://www.mastdata.com

However there are risks and challenges here. Sometimes the internal antenna on a mobile router can actually do a pretty good job on their own, which might mean very little benefit can be extracted from spending the extra money on an external setup via your roof. Not to mention the cost of having somebody install that for you. The extra kit and labour will probably end up coming in at under £200.

You might be better off just leaving the router sitting as high as possible at the upstairs front window, although the way you've described how the signal changed with elevation suggests that an external roof approach might well produce some benefit. Hopefully DTMark can see this and offer some input on the actual antenna to use.

A basic "X" antenna is about £20-£40, and cable isnt expensive, I have been looking at something similar for a friend in a BB notspot (200kb on a good day).

@pewe, could you post a link to that Three offer, I didnt see it when I was looking.
 
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It sounds like you might be at the periphery of two transmitters - one 3G, one 4G. Or, just one transmitter, but the signal is weak hence the flicking between 3G and 4G.

I'm not familiar with the modem that you have (the B310) however the B593 has an option to force 3G or 4G mode. If you're losing signal completely because it's weak then forcing 4G mode won't be much help and might make it worse, but on the other hand if the modem can just hang onto the 4G this may stop it dropping out altogether.

With 3G/4G height is "everything" - well, unless you're on top of a hill and the transmitter is half a mile down from you in a valley. Which is unusual, mobile transmitters - especially if they're covering large areas - tend to be mounted on high ground.

As you've noted you get better performance upstairs but it's still a bit marginal. So an outdoor antenna is the way to go with it mounted as high as you can. You may need to get someone to do this for you; we paid someone to fix ours to the chimney and point it at the transmitter.

It does also sound as though EE may be the network to go for. We have a home 4G package which is £75 per month for 100GB/month, that's their top one, but they do have cheaper options and that comes with a modem (not the one you have). I am assuming that your Three modem is probably locked to Three which would preclude you trying an EE SIM in it, though the evidence of your neighbour suggests that good speeds are possible with EE.

Actually, if they have paid someone to come and measure the strength and align their antenna perfectly then buying something similar and pointing at where you want it for a handyman to climb up and fix it there and offering a pair of binoculars to assist with getting the alignment right may be enough and not cost you £400.

Signal loss along cables is significant so you'll want to keep the modem upstairs regardless. If you need stronger Wi-Fi in the house then use power plugs to pipe the signal around the house/repeat the Wi-Fi signal. In other words, you can't compromise on where the modem and antenna go, you have to compromise on everything else after them.

The Three and EE transmitters may be at the same site albeit at different heights, they may not; there used to be an up to date database for these, but you can probably work it out by going to the Three and EE sites, coverage checker, 4G, put your postcode into both and put the two windows side by side. If the coverage "circles" seem to emanate from the identical place then this suggests they are at the same site.
 
A quick hunt for the B310 on AE suggests it can be unlocked from Three, or might not be locked at all, certainly there are people offering it "Unlocked" for about £90.
 
I have found a better answer than experimenting with antennas and long extensions for the antenna cable.

The problem I was having was finding a suitable location for the router so that it would pick up a decent mobile signal and transmit the wifi to all parts of the house - because our house is a 200 year old cottage with a modern extension on the side. The kitchen/family room is in the old part and the lounge and snug is in the new part - both separated by an 18" stone wall..

Last night I remembered that I had a couple of old spare routers that I don't use - a Netgear DG834 and a TalkTalk branded D-link as well as a long network cable that I used years ago to connect a computer in my garden office to a non wifi router in the house.

So I took the Huawei, supplied by 3, and positioned it high in the attic above the new part of the house.
In that position it picks up 4G at over 20 Mb/s.

Whilst the wifi signal reaches all parts of the new side of the house from there it is very weak in the old part.

So I connected the network cable to the Huawei and fed it through the wall to the attic of the old part of the house, connecting it to the Netgear which was configured on the same network - and that feeds all the old part of the house.

This all seems to work well - although the Netgear does drop the connection to the internet occassionally - which needs further investigation.

Not sure I need more than 20 mb/s anyway - don't play games (not at my age) and most of what I download (apart from Windows updates) is speed capped anyway.

It was always frustrating, with 0.6Mb/s on the landline, not being able to watch iPlayer to catch the odd missed program, but with anything over 5 Mb/s I could do that anyway.

When I told my neighbour I was looking at £20 per month for 40GB he said he now wished he'd asked me for input before committing to £500 installation (paid for by a Government scheme) and £38 per month for the extra 10GB / month from EE - he doesn't need 50GB of data either.

@Captain_Cretin - the 40GB @ £20/m is not mentioned on their web site.

I was offered it when I rang their online sales.
Although it is also available in store I chose to order on the phone as buying online or by phone gives a 14 day cooling off period to return it - so I kept my options open should I not get a good signal.

I haven't yet checked if the router is 'unlocked' although some folks have reported that it is.
I will pop another sim in over the weeknd and try it.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for that, I will pass the info on to my friends.
 
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I'm looking at this as an option. I've an ipad on three and I can get 3G on it in the house, so hoping an antenna on the roof would possibly get 4G but i'd be happy anyway. 3G would be faster than my current broadband.

I have a question around SIM cards. I think EE and Three are the only networks that work at the house, if I got a mobile contract from either would the SIM work? I note that Three do unlimited data on their mobile SIMS. Anyone tried? I use the internet to download alot and I stream alot too. PC game now and then too.
 
I'm looking at this as an option. I've an ipad on three and I can get 3G on it in the house, so hoping an antenna on the roof would possibly get 4G but i'd be happy anyway. 3G would be faster than my current broadband.

I have a question around SIM cards. I think EE and Three are the only networks that work at the house, if I got a mobile contract from either would the SIM work? I note that Three do unlimited data on their mobile SIMS. Anyone tried? I use the internet to download alot and I stream alot too. PC game now and then too.

The operator can "see" the device you're connecting with and so a SIM intended for a mobile phone probably won't work in a modem that requires a "data plan" SIM. Indeed the SIM may actually be blocked and the account terminated for infringing the Terms and Conditions.
 
I think the 3 contract, although 'unlimited' data, only allows 30GB of 'tethering' which means it is for phone use (as suggested by @DTMark.)

Also, the 4G modems use the old full size sim and don't work with the new sims which will fit modern phones so the sim supplied with the unlimited contract will not fit the 4G wifi modems so you can't swap them between the two devices.
 
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I have just picked up a TPLink 4G router via Amazon for £99 (+£5p&p), it covers all the frequency bands in the UK, has two external antenna, and those antenna can be replaced if needed.

It doesnt need any drivers and is effectively plug and play - the Wifi access code is printed on a label on the underside of the unit, and it auto configured to O2 without any input from me.

Plugged it in, set a password and activated the SIM in a few minutes.
 
How well does it perform Captain?
 
So far, so good. The signal in the new shop is a bit iffy on the phone, but getting good speeds via the new router.

It is only really being used by an Apple Air, so speed isnt a big issue; the boss (mummy) wanted to be able to place stock orders while at the shop, and that isnt easy using a phone, and with BT land line prices being such a rip-off.....

We checked out the website for a supplier I found and downloaded their pdf catalogue with no obvious delays; response and download times felt as good as my 80Mb home connection

Now it is set up, I have set the phone being used to run the iZettle payment system to use the new router, rather than run on its own data allowance, and loaded the router SIM with a 5GB/90 day package.

I have only set the wifi up on 2.4Ghz, as I was'nt sure if the Air could handle 5Ghz (it seems it does), and there are a LOT of 2.4Ghz networks running in the area, but the connection to the router is solid, with no drop outs while I was playing with it.
 
EE4G router, signal improvable?

I hope my adding a request for similar help isn't deemed a hijack!

I live in rural Wales, BT internet is atrocious at 1.5 Mbps and often drops out for days at a time. Coupled with the building being an old stone longhouse with very thick walls everywhere and although up in the hills we are actually in a natural dip in the valley. Outside 4g is great in certain places and weak in others, inside it literally works in some rooms and not in others.

I recently installed a 4g router broadband package from EE using their new(ish) white EE4G home router. I have played about with location and the best place is in the upper part of an upstairs window. At this point I get between 1 and 2 out of 4 bars of signal (when logged into the router connectivity menu/page). Whereas sitting on the windowsill about 2 feet below this point means 0-1 out of 4 bars. Speed wise I get 25/1.5 down/up at the windowsill and 35-60/1.5-3.5 down/up by balancing in the upper part of the window.

I cannot install an external antenna (long story, but failed satelite installation means the OH will not accept anything being mouted outside, so external mounting is a non-starter). I have tried in the loft to see if the signal improves with a small extra bit of height, even though there would be wood and roof slates to deal with, but this doesn't help at all, with signal back down to the upper 20's Mbps.

So my question, would a twin SMA connected window mountable antenna for this device help? Does anyone know if the built in anntenna are likely doing as a good a job as is possible? Or, would two small stick type antennas help, or are there alternatives?

At the moment I am considering building a shelf in the upper window but wonder if anyone can shed some insight.

For what it is worth, the 30+ mbps is fantastic after 'coping' for 2 years with less than 2, so it's more about stablilty now than speed, though I would not object to faster either!

Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for anyone ofdering help!
 
Tricky one. I've personally never found any good indoor antennas that actually made much of a positive difference to the signal reception / quality. Only mounted external ones really helped. The exception was a multi-antenna equipped WiBE router from Deltenna but those are fiddly, massively expensive and I haven't seen a 4G one for sale in ages.
 
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The higher the better is the only thing I could suggest; if you can stick one in your loft space you should get an improved signal, although not as big an improvement as sticking an identical antenna outside.

Example based on WiFi

If I place my cheapo "N" spec dongle directly into my PC, it picks up 3-4 nearby networks; if I use a USB extension cable and secure it 1 metre above my PC, it picks up 12-15 networks; if I secure it right up against the ceiling over my PC, it picks up 20+ networks.
 
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