{"id":16511,"date":"2018-08-25T00:01:59","date_gmt":"2018-08-24T23:01:59","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.ispreview.co.uk\/?p=16511"},"modified":"2024-02-23T15:20:18","modified_gmt":"2024-02-23T15:20:18","slug":"gigaclear-ceo-mike-surrey-on-building-full-fibre-beyond-england","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.ispreview.co.uk\/index.php\/2018\/08\/gigaclear-ceo-mike-surrey-on-building-full-fibre-beyond-england.html","title":{"rendered":"Gigaclear CEO Mike Surrey on Building Full Fibre Beyond England"},"content":{"rendered":"

The recently appointed Interim CEO of Oxfordshire-based UK ISP Gigaclear<\/a>, Mike Surrey, has told ISPreview that they’re ready to grow their Gigabit capable “full fibre<\/em>” (FTTP<\/a>\/H) rural broadband network beyond England and believe that “market forces driven by competition<\/em>” will deliver the best outcome.<\/p>\n

Anybody familiar with Gigaclear<\/a> will know that the provider has had quite an eventful couple of years, which recently culminated in Infracapital<\/strong> (M&G Investment Management<\/a>) acquiring 80% of the business as part of a \u00a3270m cash deal (here<\/a>) and this was later followed by the departure of long-time company CEO and Founder, Matthew Hare<\/strong> (here<\/a>).<\/p>\n

The Infracapital deal means that the ISP has now raised \u00a3184m of equity from its shareholders and they have a commitment for a further \u00a3150m from Infracapital and Railpen. All of this will be crucial in helping to deliver their rollout plan, which aims to cover 350,000 premises<\/strong> by the end of 2021 (currently at 65,000 premises passed).<\/p>\n

Much of the current work stems from their state aid supported contract wins as part of the Government’s wider Broadband Delivery UK<\/a> programme, which until now has focused on reaching rural parts of 22 counties across England. However Gigaclear<\/a>’s interim CEO, Mike Surrey<\/strong>, is “confident that we now have the delivery methods and processes to allow us to grow reliably outside of our \u2018home\u2019 territory<\/em>.”<\/p>\n

Indeed the ISP has already been linked with a bid on Scotland’s future \u00a3600m R100<\/strong> project (here<\/a>), which aspires to make “superfast broadband<\/em>” (30Mbps+) available to 100% of the country by the end of 2021 (March 2022 as a financial year). Similarly we wouldn’t be surprised to see Gigaclear scoop up more contracts in other parts of England and possibly also Wales.<\/p>\n

Suffice to say that now is as good a time as any to ask Mike Surrey about Gigaclear’s opinion on the current broadband market and what plans they have for the future.<\/p>\n

The Interview<\/strong><\/span><\/h3>\n

1. Over the past year a multitude of providers have announced plans to significantly invest in major expansions of \u201cfull fibre\u201d (FTTH<\/a>\/P) ultrafast broadband infrastructure, which have been partly fuelled by Ofcom<\/a>\u2019s changes to regulation (e.g. easier access to Openreach<\/a>\u2019s cable ducts and a revised electronic comms code) and the Government\u2019s support via various funds, as well as a 5 year business rates holiday.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Meanwhile the government has also launched a new consultation, which seeks to understand what kind of future investment and support may be required to help boost FTTP<\/a>\/H and 5G<\/a> Mobile services. In your opinion, what more must the Government and Ofcom<\/a> do to further improve the coverage of such services?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

There are around 30 million homes and businesses in the UK. Of these, around 1 million currently have access to full fibre. Gigaclear believes that almost every home and business will need full fibre infrastructure in the future. A build program of this size, to encompass another 29 million properties, will need a regulatory environment that is stable to attract the investment and appear friendly to new linear construction. Whilst Ofcom<\/a> has been able to influence Openreach<\/a> to design a better duct and pole sharing model, it still stifles long term investment due to the restrictions on the contracts available.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

2. With so many ISPs planning to deploy FTTH<\/a>\/P connectivity into urban areas, the prospect of a significant overbuild will rise. In some areas we might potentially see several FTTH<\/a>\/P providers, which is good for consumer choice but might not improve overall coverage and may frustrate locals if their streets are being dug up multiple times by different operators.<\/strong><\/p>\n

What approach do you think should be taken to this or is it more a matter for natural competition and potentially even future market consolidation to sort out?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

We believe that market forces driven by competition rather than market organisation will deliver a better, if messier, outcome. Some properties will end up having a choice of two or three network infrastructures and some of these are likely to be delivered through combined construction programmes.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

3. Gigaclear has successfully won a number of major state aid (Broadband Delivery UK<\/a>) supported FTTP<\/a> rollout projects between 2016 and 2018, which should significantly extend the reach of your “full fibre” network over the next few years.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Are you working to win any similar contracts this year and can you tell us anything about the counties or even countries that you have a strong interest in targeting for the future?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

Gigaclear looks at all BDUK opportunities and bids for those where we believe we can deliver a brilliant solution, offering long term returns that are attractive to our shareholders. Because the bidding processes are competitive, we do not comment on specific projects. Although of course you will know that Gigaclear has been announced as shortlisted for the R100 program in Scotland.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

4. In keeping with the above, we note that Gigaclear are bidding on the Scotland R100 contract and wondered why it\u2019s taken so long to start seriously considering a move outside of England. What challenges or barriers does Gigaclear face in potentially moving so far away from its base?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

Gigaclear has a regional delivery organisation which manages all our county and regional projects. As we move further from our HQ in Abingdon, the lines of communication are stretched. So, at some point we will need to open regional offices and duplicate some functions in each of them.<\/p>\n

Our biggest challenge is building the team and structure to allow us to infiltrate more of rural Britain at scale.<\/p>\n

It all takes time and we are keen to make sure we deliver. Inevitably, we do experience hiccups at times, which need to be fixed. However, we are confident that we now have the delivery methods and processes to allow us to grow reliably outside of our \u2018home\u2019 territory.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

5. The Government\u2019s new Telecoms Infrastructure Review is said to be mulling the controversial old idea of adopting regional franchises, which it’s been claimed could be used to help boost the coverage of “full fibre” broadband, particularly in rural areas.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Under this idea densely populated towns and cities, where the commercial model is easier to make, would be bundled together with swathes of less profitable countryside.<\/strong><\/p>\n

The idea acknowledges that there could be “major hurdles”, such as around the risk of creating new local monopolies, as well as the unclear impact on existing networks (including at wholesale) and the risk of creating a more confusing market for consumers. What are your thoughts on this option?<\/strong><\/p>\n

NOTE:<\/strong> Since posing this question the Government’s review has been published, which largely rules out a regional franchise approach (details<\/a>).<\/div>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

This is looking at the age-old question of how to subsidise the non-commercial parts of the build. Fundamentally, you must give a monopoly that allows the monopolist to cross-subsidise the more expensive areas with the less expensive ones. Or you (ultimately taxpayers) provide subsidy directly. Either *can* work.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Continued on page 2..<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

6. Cityfibre<\/a> recently announced that they were seeking a Judicial Review of the advertising watchdog\u2019s decision not to clamp down on ISPs that advertised slow hybrid fibre (FTTC<\/a> \/ VDSL2<\/a> \/ Cable etc.) services as “fibre”, “fibre broadband” or “fibre optic broadband” etc.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Cityfibre<\/a> described the ASA’s reasoning as being “fundamentally flawed<\/em>” and to quote their CEO, Greg Mesch: “The time has come to do away with ‘fake fibre’. The ASA\u2019s short-sighted decision to allow yesterday\u2019s copper-based infrastructure to masquerade as the future-proof full fibre networks of tomorrow is a clear failure in its duty<\/em>.”<\/strong><\/p>\n

No doubt you also have a viewpoint on this matter?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

We fully support CityFibre<\/a>\u2019s challenge of the ASA\u2019s ruling and we\u2019re pleased that CityFibre has been given permission at the High Court to move ahead with a judicial review.<\/p>\n

All cars use electricity: not all cars are electric cars. The same applies to broadband. All broadband uses fibre (even if way, way back in the core network) but not all broadband is fibre. If we want to be able to clearly articulate to consumers the difference in terms of performance (reliability and speed) and its ability to offer a future-proof connection, then talking about the delivery technology is necessary.<\/p>\n

The research we undertook in 2017, along with CityFibre and Hyperoptic<\/a>, clearly showed that consumers typically felt it was misleading to describe part fibre networks as \u2018fibre\u2019. It impedes their ability to differentiate between the different capabilities of different technologies.<\/p>\n

The government has communicated the importance of full fibre networks for our economic future. It\u2019s time to educate consumers in a clear and concise way, to ensure they have the knowledge to choose the service they want.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

7. The Government has proposed a 10Mbps Universal Service Obligation (USO), which should be introduced from 2020 and is likely to focus most of its efforts upon the final 2% of UK premises that won\u2019t be covered by a superfast broadband network via the Broadband Delivery UK<\/a> programme.<\/strong><\/p>\n

If you could design the USO, what criteria and timescale would you set to ensure that a good quality connection is constantly maintained to all those who request it and, perhaps most important of all, how would you fund it?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

Given our involvement in the discussions around the USO, how it might be delivered and funded, we are not in a position to answer this question. Sorry.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

8. Ofcom will introduce a new voluntary Automatic Compensation system from early 2019, which will force UK ISPs to compensate consumers (cash or bill credits) for a total loss of broadband connectivity (e.g. when an outage lasts longer than 2 working days). Compensation will also be paid for missed engineer appointments and delayed service installs \/ activations.<\/strong><\/p>\n

At present only the largest providers have signed-up to the scheme and smaller operators have not joined. What are your thoughts on the usefulness of this scheme and is it something you would consider joining?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

Gigaclear builds brand new full fibre networks and as we bury the infrastructure underground to keep it safe and aesthetically invisible to rural communities, the majority of our builds are major construction projects.<\/p>\n

Once a network is built, delivering the service over it is fairly straightforward. However, every day we see issues during the construction process which mean that it\u2019s not always possible to meet the original planned dates and these are subject to change.<\/p>\n

So, whilst the vast majority of what we do is new build, automatic compensation for late delivery is not an option for us. For extended outages, we would be happy to compensate customers for loss of service. Once the rate of our build programmes stabilises, I would expect Gigaclear to join.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

9. In the past Gigaclear was much more demand-led in their deployments, while the newer state aid supported contracts tend to follow a more general deployment model over a wider \/ less specific area. How are you finding take-up in the state aid supported areas where you\u2019ve deployed so far and are you able to share any figures? Is take-up meeting your expectations and models.<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

We moved from pre-selling to demand forecasting once we had enough data to model our take-up accurately. Right now, we are doing well against forecast, although we can always do better! As for sharing the detail, that varies enormously by area. Of course, for our business to work, in areas that cost more to build, we need to achieve higher adoptions. And the converse is true too. The costs broadly relate to the average distance between properties. Our current average is 80m, around sixteen times more than a typical UK urban\/suburban network.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

10. Do all the state aid supported contracts that you\u2019ve won include the same sort of gainshare \/ clawback clause as other Broadband Delivery UK<\/a> linked contracts, which require operators to return some of their public investment once customer take-up in related areas goes beyond a certain level (20% in a lot of BT<\/a>\u2019s contracts)?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

Yes, all Gigaclear\u2019s contracts include the gainshare clauses. However, the business case that we bid is always at far higher levels of take-up than the 20% level you refer to.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

11. One other thing we\u2019ve noticed about Gigaclear\u2019s state aid supported contracts is that the level of private investment committed is often significantly more than the contributed level of public investment. This is the opposite of what we\u2019ve seen with many BT<\/a> centred BDUK contracts, where aside from some exceptions the public investment tended to be larger than the private.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Can you tell us a bit more about the rationale for this approach. For example, is it all about producing the most attractive FTTP centric bid vs rivals and does the heightened level of financial commitment create any bigger risks or challenges?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

Broadly, we invest \u00a31000 per property passed and achieve our average adoption forecast over time. So, our BDUK county specific bids include our own investment as well as the subsidy available. And we iterate our network designs to see just how far we can reach with the total funding available. The relationship we have with the local bodies is based on a partnership. Frankly, we have a lot to lose financially if we get it wrong, far more than the subsidy that we might be receiving.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

12. One year ago Gigaclear announced that they had secured an additional \u00a3111m of private investment and expected to reach 150,000 premises passed in UK rural areas by the end of 2020. How much progress have you made on this target (e.g. premises passed so far) and how big do you aspire for Gigaclear\u2019s FTTP network coverage to be by 2025?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

We are about half way there now and have yet to announce where we plan to get to by 2025. Watch this space!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

13. Infracapital (M&G Investment Management) recently announced that they were going to buy Gigaclear for \u00a3270m. In theory this should provide more flexibility to invest in future deployments, although others have speculated that it might one day result in Gigaclear having its network consolidated with other providers where Infracapital is a major investor (e.g. TalkTalk<\/a>).<\/strong><\/p>\n

Making money from FTTP\/H networks is obviously very challenging and deployment tends to attract an extremely long pay-back period (e.g. 10-20 years), especially when the focus is upon rural areas. What do you see as being the most likely short and longer-term result of the Infracapital move?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

Infracapital now own 80% of Gigaclear, and along with Railpen have committed another \u00a3150m of investment to help us achieve our goals this year and next. This is a long-term investment, but we believe that we have shown our investors that the build can be done to the right cost profile and that demand for fibre does grow over time. As a result, our investors will achieve the long-term returns they are looking for.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

14. Finally, can you give us a rough idea of the private investment that Gigaclear has so far committed to its rollout and how much more you might need in order to achieve any coverage aspirations for 2025?<\/strong><\/p>\n

ANSWER:<\/u><\/p>\n

Gigaclear has raised \u00a3184m of equity from its shareholders and has a commitment for a further \u00a3150m. In addition, we have access to \u00a372m of subsidy and have raised \u00a322m in loans from the EIB. When we announce our build target for 2025, we will be in a position to say how much additional investment we will need to achieve it.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

End.<\/p>\n

We’d like to thank Mike for taking the time to respond to our questions, particularly as this piece was originally due to be conducted with Matthew Hare<\/strong> but that was before we knew of his planned departure.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The recently appointed Interim CEO of Oxfordshire-based UK ISP Gigaclear, Mike Surrey, has told ISPreview that they’re ready to grow their Gigabit capable “full fibre” (FTTP\/H) rural broadband network beyond England and believe that “market forces driven by competition” will deliver the best outcome.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[2716],"tags":[65,56,416],"class_list":["post-16511","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-interviews","tag-ftth","tag-fttp","tag-gigaclear"],"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"","error":""},"yoast_head":"\nGigaclear CEO Mike Surrey on Building Full Fibre Beyond England - ISPreview UK<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The recently appointed Interim CEO of Oxfordshire-based UK ISP Gigaclear, Mike Surrey, has told ISPreview that they're ready to grow their Gigabit capable\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.ispreview.co.uk\/index.php\/2018\/08\/gigaclear-ceo-mike-surrey-on-building-full-fibre-beyond-england.html\" \/>\n<link rel=\"next\" href=\"https:\/\/www.ispreview.co.uk\/index.php\/2018\/08\/gigaclear-ceo-mike-surrey-on-building-full-fibre-beyond-england.html\/2\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_GB\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Gigaclear CEO Mike Surrey on Building Full Fibre Beyond England - 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