Less than ideal Zen FTTP speeds

[Msh]

What does using the Xilo server on speedtest.net (wired test) give you? Do the test 10 times , if you get 700+ Mbps more than 5 times I'd say absolutely nothing wrong with your line. Liker I said earlier, not all speedtests can handle a 1 Gig line and its perfectly normally to see results of 300-400 Mbps on many speedtest sites.

Also if using Windoze 10, I suggest using the Speedtest app rather than using a browser.

I realise you're trying to help and don't understand my background. I was hoping to avoid the first line support style responses here but fine, I'll bite.

All tests are to/from Xilo, from the Windows app.

Download	Upload	Proof
422.20	100.35	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
548.52	103.56	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
474.63	105.03	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
191.17	98.14	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
549.38	99.99	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
517.58	101.16	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
547.60	100.87	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
422.30	100.98	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
537.27	101.36	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
536.52	104.43	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net

So 100% below 700 (I assume this is not arbitrary and relates to BT's guarantees?). Hilariously this is to *Zen's* own server from my VM connection on the same device.

Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test

Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps.

www.speedtest.net

One thing that's quite different of course is that my laptop obviously doesn't handle PPPoE for Virgin Media, so to give you a more fair comparison, via the Fritzbox here are 5 results to Xilo too:

Download	Upload	Proof
463.35	97.45	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
853.54	102.03	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
923.26	98.98	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
500.28	101.99	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
481.73	99.17	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net

So you can see the line is clearly capable of delivering what it's meant to, just, erratically.

 

[NTP]

Thanks for the details, its making me wonder between Zen and BT now.
BT says on their site a 450Mb guarantee but I cant find the 700 you mention?
I really am holding out hope Zen sort it as I was leaning towards them but if its Zen capacity BT may be better.

Thanks again for all your testing, I really hope it gets sorted.

How have you found the support staff?

 

[Msh]

Thanks for the details, its making me wonder between Zen and BT now.
BT says on their site a 450Mb guarantee but I cant find the 700 you mention?
I really am holding out hope Zen sort it as I was leaning towards them but if its Zen capacity BT may be better.

Thanks again for all your testing, I really hope it gets sorted.

How have you found the support staff?

No worries, I will keep everyone posted. I'd say this is entirely on Zen now.

The BT guarantee is here.

Support has been a mostly positive experience, they have now quoted the 450 Mbps number 4 times which is a tad irritating but I guess I understand. I am coming from VM so anything beats that I have asked them to give me a plan asap so I can make a decision about the cancellation.

I will continue with the VM cancellation, I have 5G backup to use if I am out of service for some days.

 

[baby_frogmella]

I realise you're trying to help and don't understand my background. I was hoping to avoid the first line support style responses here but fine, I'll bite.

All tests are to/from Xilo, from the Windows app.

Download	Upload	Proof
422.20	100.35	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
548.52	103.56	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
474.63	105.03	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
191.17	98.14	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
549.38	99.99	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
517.58	101.16	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
547.60	100.87	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
422.30	100.98	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
537.27	101.36	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
536.52	104.43	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net

So 100% below 700 (I assume this is not arbitrary and relates to BT's guarantees?). Hilariously this is to *Zen's* own server from my VM connection on the same device.

Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test

Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps.

www.speedtest.net

One thing that's quite different of course is that my laptop obviously doesn't handle PPPoE for Virgin Media, so to give you a more fair comparison, via the Fritzbox here are 5 results to Xilo too:

Download	Upload	Proof
463.35	97.45	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
853.54	102.03	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
923.26	98.98	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
500.28	101.99	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net
481.73	99.17	Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test Use Speedtest on all your devices with our free desktop and mobile apps. www.speedtest.net

So you can see the line is clearly capable of delivering what it's meant to, just, erratically.

Apologies, I wrongly assumed you hadn't tested via the Xilo speedtest server yet. Btw your upload speed also looks a little on the low side, I'm consistently seeing 115-120 Mbps on BT FTTP 900. So you might wanna ask Zen to investigate your upload as well

 

[Msh]

Zen has put some monitoring in place and will contact me tomorrow (he mentioned ping to monitor for loss, but I know I get no loss now). The fault manager sent me quite an alarming message though:

Not to sound standoffish, but I will try to address your mention of the 14 day cancellation window. Please note, the cancellation of services is beyond the remit of our tech support team and would best be discussed with our cancellation team between 9-5 Monday to Friday. It is not something we can assist with on the weekends. You had 14 days from when you placed the order in which to cancel. If the services go live within those 14 days and have been used, the cancellation period ends. It's detailed in section 17 of the Zen Retail Standard terms and conditions which can be found on our website here: Small Business & Residential Service | Standard Terms & Conditions (zen.co.uk)

A massive red flag. I will confirm this with support tomorrow. It took them 3 weeks to even start my service.

They also mentioned they will check backhaul capacity tomorrow during business hours.

 

[baby_frogmella]

Zen has put some monitoring in place and will contact me tomorrow (he mentioned ping to monitor for loss, but I know I get no loss now). The fault manager sent me quite an alarming message though:


A massive red flag. I will confirm this with support tomorrow. It took them 3 weeks to even start my service.

They also mentioned they will check backhaul capacity tomorrow during business hours.

To be fair to Zen though, they're correct when they state the 14 days cancellation window starts immediately after you place the order. This is perfectly normal for nearly all ISPs and hence why most ISPs activate your service 14+ days after placing the order so that you have plenty time to cancel without incurring any charges.

Re: minimum speed guarantee, I believe its only BT Residential who guarantee the 700 Mbps minimum throughput. All other ISPs (even BT Business whom I'm with) use different backhaul links so - based on their capacity estimates - they may decide to play it safe and still quote 450 Mbps minimum throughput.

 

[Msh]

To be fair to Zen though, they're correct when they state the 14 days cancellation window starts immediately after you place the order

Yes, it's likely right, I will talk with them on the phone tomorrow either way. There's no doubt at this point I am not getting what I paid for and other outs exist, I won't stay on this for 24 months.

 

[Pheasant]

I get the horrible feeling that the exchange I am connected to is not set up for FTTP capacity, there's only a handful of addresses here that are OR FTTP serviceable. But this is just speculation of course.

Nah. Not at all the exchange OLT / L2S switch etc will be set up for it all right. Don’t forget it’s the main handover exchange not the little copper /ADSL exchange your phone line comes from. So it will be setup to serve a very large number of premises.

Backhaul capability and capacity from there is however is the full remit of Zen in this case - and their recent reputation has taken quite a public battering on this especially..

 

[baby_frogmella]

Nah. Not at all the exchange OLT / L2S switch etc will be set up for it all right. Don’t forget it’s the main handover exchange not the little copper /ADSL exchange your phone line comes from. So it will be setup to serve a very large number of premises.

Backhaul capability and capacity from there is however is the full remit of Zen in this case - and their recent reputation has taken quite a public battering on this especially..

Yep, Zen are no longer the premium ISP they once used to be. Unfortunately Zen's middle class luvvies on Which? think otherwise who only care about speaking to someone in support dept with a British accent rather than the underlying service.

 

[Msh]

Well, let's at least hope the support/fault teams are capable of resolving actual problems still

 

[NTP]

The BT guarantee is here.

It seems to be depending on the area, my friend in leeds gets this:

 

[Pheasant]

It seems to be depending on the area, my friend in leeds gets this:
View attachment 2022

Kind of like their pricing then. Postcode lottery!

 

[Msh]

I sent another email this morning prodding for an update, to which they replied fairly quickly saying they will need to send out another Openreach engineer (yet to be scheduled).

They completely ignored the request for information about backhaul which they said they'd check today. Who knows, maybe they'll answer later.

I'll jump through their hoops of course, but it's starting to feel like I am being fobbed off.

 

[Msh]

I have been losing my patience a bit if I am honest, just trying to keep in mind that it has only been a few days though.

So update for this evening:
The fault manager is fixated on this 450 number which concerns me a lot, I have heard it lots. If I am left with that I will be quite unamused. I won't discuss contract things with the fault manager anymore, I think I am probably just frustrating them too .

Either way, the fault manager has arranged another visit, but this time from a senior Openreach engineer. This is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. He said that the NOC team have said there's no capacity/backhaul issue. I am not overly confident in this claim.

I decided to call up to discuss cancellations, the person who answered the phone was a bit robotic, with a "you agreed to this" attitude. They had no idea about how to cancel under the speed guarantee and passed me over to the technical support team. They also claimed the early termination fee would be the full monthly cost of the 24 months, which I have some concerns about from a legal perspective.

This guy was the first rational human I have spoken with. He said that the Speedtest's I have sent are adequate proof to get out of contract (for the 450 Mbps guarantee) and even if it was above that, they'd potentially escalate it (say, if I continue to get 600) to still cancel. Obviously, I need to continue with the steps that the fault manager is arranging.

 

[Msh]

This evening I am getting full speed to the laptop through the Fritzbox and PPPoE directly on the laptop fairly consistently. I lose a bit through my own router but I think that's just poor MTU configuration (we're talking 910/80 still).

I will see how it is in the morning, it was days of consistent weirdness so I am not quite ready to say this is over.

Edit: Morning of the 18th it's much lower again.

 

[Msh]

Engineer visit is over, speeds were like 700-800 before ONT switch and the same after. This is towards the good end of the spectrum, give it some hours and I am sure it'll dive again.

Time to email Zen again

 

[NTP]

Thanks for the update. Fingers crossed it gets solved.

 

[Msh]

Zen replied (conveniently at 17:00...) talking about WiFi. I have absolutely no idea why on Earth he has started mentioning WiFi at this point... it's almost as if they're intentionally trying to **** me off.

 

[Codfather]

Msh, I am with Zen on same package and I have an open issue with them since September 2021 relating to speed. Initially was doing OK with good average speeds then in September speeds bombed to sub 300 Mbps with throughput problems. In the months since I have had numerous visits from Openreach engineers, which largely was a waste of time. I have had a new ONT installed, fibre checked from distribution point to ONT, etc etc. Has been with BT Wholesale since start of December 2021 for service reprovision from current TalkTalk network to BT, but BT dragging it out. Speeds come up for few hours to plus 800 Mbps, but then bombs. At time of writing this sitting at 83 Mbps. Total joke if you ask me.

 

[Msh]

Msh, I am with Zen on same package and I have an open issue with them since September 2021 relating to speed. Initially was doing OK with good average speeds then in September speeds bombed to sub 300 Mbps with throughput problems. In the months since I have had numerous visits from Openreach engineers, which largely was a waste of time. I have had a new ONT installed, fibre checked from distribution point to ONT, etc etc. Has been with BT Wholesale since start of December 2021 for service reprovision from current TalkTalk network to BT, but BT dragging it out. Speeds come up for few hours to plus 800 Mbps, but then bombs. At time of writing this sitting at 83 Mbps. Total joke if you ask me.

Jesus! I’m sorry to hear that. Did you contact their complaints team?

I raised a formal complaint this morning with the intention of getting out of contract. Right now they’re effectively holding the ONT hostage, I just want out now.

Further to this; I was expecting a response this morning from the fault team. This did not happen.