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4G Hub vs Antenna vs Copper ADSL

griff6784

Casual Member
Hey all. Got a quandary. My family live in rural North Staffordshire on a property that gets next to no 4G (zero inside, very patchy outside). We're on ADSL on a faulty copper line presently with no hope of fibre anytime soon.

I spoke to ofcom about getting better broadband and they told me I had to try 4G because my area was supposedly a 4G area. They suggested I try an antenna.

So, I signed up with EE and got a hub. Also booked a TSG engineer. He turned up, did some signal checks and found faint signal to the south of the property, probably at a mast at a wood just outside the village of Longnor, Staffordshire.

He refused to install the antenna, saying it’d be pointless. We both discussed the idea of putting the hub in a waterproof box and setting it up 100m away, on a hill above the property where we get up to 10mbps. For context the farmhouse is in a valley. 100m away you get 4G at up to 10mbps on a smartphone. Meanwhile half a mile away at the top of the drive, you can get up to 20mbps. I ran an extension and put the hub 100m away and speeded tested the wifi on my phone and got reasonable speeds. If I could consistently get 3-8mbps I’d be over the moon since copper (our existent and only internet) affords us 2-3mbps.

Subsequent to this, I climbed up onto the roof and put the hub next to the TV aerial and ran a 20m ethernet into the house. Lo and behold it works and gets 2-6mbps. I then placed a bag on the hub to simulate a rain cover and speeds dropped. Still, I can download up to 800kbps which is a definite improvement on what I’ve been used to.

Questions; do I opt for the 100m ethernet (or longer), with the hub installed in a waterproof box up the drive. Or do I try to put the hub 3-6m above the house near the aerial and stick with the 20m ethernet. In other words what’s the trade off between worse signal and shorter ethernet vs better signal and longer ethernet. Also, are their particular materials that 4G struggles to penetrate if I house the hub in a waterproof container.

Secondly, was the antenna guy just being idle? He said the antenna needs line of sight and that the hub is my best bet in the circumstances as it receives signal more like a phone. He also said his antenna cables were only 5m and you can’t extend them (I’m suspicious of this). Is it worth my while privately buying an antenna and running say a 10m cable down from the antenna (placed approx. 6m above the roof)?

I can’t get fibre, I’m waiting on Musk’s Starlink, I’m, exploring bonding/combining two copper broadbands. This whole 4G thing is other iron in the fire.

What are people’s thoughts? Would love some advice on the technical side of things. Ethernet and antenna cables, antenna reception vs hub etc.

Edit: Just for further info, with the 4G hub stuck in a bag hanging off the TV aerial above the roof I just clocked 22mbps with an upload speed of 4mbps. Even with the inconsistency I've never experienced speeds remotely this high at this property so I'm keen to keep the service. I just need to optimise how... hub outside waterproofed or hub inside, connected to an antenna.

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I assume when you say 100m up the hill you'd be looking at PoE for power?
You mentioned EE, but have you tried other providers? What are their signal/speeds like?

Personal, from what you've said, I think I'd go with the 100m hill approach but then perhaps introduce a directional antenna too, however it would depend on the signal metrics (RSRP, RSRQ and SINR) you get there - signal strength might not be the limiting factor to your speeds.

Are you able to share a postcode, or location somewhat nearby to help us understand where roughly you are and what might be around? I know in rural locations this can be hard as any location info could easily give away your house, so feel free not to!
 
Thanks ever so much for replying mate. Postcode is SK17 0TD but that's a little off. My what3word is chip.generated.teaches. Perhaps it's daft to put that on here but we'll see. It'll help you figure out what to do. Part of my problem is I don't know which mast covers this place. It could be one at Earl Sterndale or at Longnor wood.

I'd not considered PoE tbh, saw someone else on another forum mention it. Simply put, it negates my need to have an armoured 240v or extension lead to the router?

I've got it on the roof atm with power and eth separate. It'd stand a 10m cable (for power and signal).

Question is, why is the signal better further up the drive (where it meets Wickenlow Lane). Why is the externalised hub better or worse than a directional or omnidirectional antenna or are there weatherproofed 4G hub routers for outside use? Why did the TSG chap point-blank refuse to install the antenna? How can I measure signal metrics?

Apologies for all the questions.
 
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I assume when you say 100m up the hill you'd be looking at PoE for power?
You mentioned EE, but have you tried other providers? What are their signal/speeds like?

Personal, from what you've said, I think I'd go with the 100m hill approach but then perhaps introduce a directional antenna too, however it would depend on the signal metrics (RSRP, RSRQ and SINR) you get there - signal strength might not be the limiting factor to your speeds.

Are you able to share a postcode, or location somewhat nearby to help us understand where roughly you are and what might be around? I know in rural locations this can be hard as any location info could easily give away your house, so feel free not to!
My reason for opting for EE was because apparently, EE's external 4G signal is the best around here. I've been with o2 for years because I've lived elsewhere but whenever I've come back to the farm, the signal has been woeful. EE seems to at least work outside. Nothing works inside. This morning I'm getting 17-20mbps download with the hub in a bag on the aerial mast but woeful upload speeds of 0.08mbps (similar to on the copper). Still, this is a tremendous improvement.
 
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Would that connect to my hub via coax or would it replace my hub? If so, I daresay there'd be some process of getting my EE connection through the MikroTik. Would that be complicated?
It would replace the hub, you connect to it via an ethernet cable with POE so no coaxial cable losses as the connection is internal and a length of millimetres. I run the Ethernet over 25m to inside the house with no speed loss at all. Mine has been outside for years and the dish is going green but still working with no signal loss, the operating system is for geeks and takes some getting used to.
 
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It would replace the hub, you connect to it via an ethernet cable with POE so no coaxial cable losses as the connection is internal and a length of millimetres. I run the Ethernet over 25m to inside the house with no speed loss at all. Mine has been outside for years and the dish is going green but still working with no signal loss, the operating system is for geeks and takes some getting used to.
so final question then, given that 4G signal is a bit better 100m up the farm drive, is it best to run a 100m PoE ethernet to an IP rated external router like a Mikrotik or maybe a Teltonika or Ubiquiti? Someone else suggested these two.
 
@griff6784 I suggested this router because it's got a parabolic dish, which makes it directional, but better at grabbing on the signal. If you can find a teltonika or ubiquity with a parabolic (or can stick them onto an old dish), then I guess it won't make much difference what you use.
 
Do you have an Android phone? If so, with the SIM cards that you have available can you it's probably worth doing some tests to find out which masts you are able to latch onto in your area.

Using an app such as Cellmapper or LTE Discovery those will show you the cellIDs of the masts you're connecting to as well as the frequencies. With that information you can look at the cellmapper map and that should identify where the masts are that you're able to use and if you were to consider a directional antenna then you'd know where to point it.

The apps will also show you the RSRP and RSRQ (though maybe not SINR) metrics which are the more detailed/raw information behind the 'bars' you usually see for signal levels.
 
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Th
@griff6784 I suggested this router because it's got a parabolic dish, which makes it directional, but better at grabbing on the signal. If you can find a teltonika or ubiquity with a parabolic (or can stick them onto an old dish), then I guess it won't make much difference what you use.
happy to go for the dish you suggested. The higher I get it the better do you think?
 
Do you have an Android phone? If so, with the SIM cards that you have available can you it's probably worth doing some tests to find out which masts you are able to latch onto in your area.

Using an app such as Cellmapper or LTE Discovery those will show you the cellIDs of the masts you're connecting to as well as the frequencies. With that information you can look at the cellmapper map and that should identify where the masts are that you're able to use and if you were to consider a directional antenna then you'd know where to point it.

The apps will also show you the RSRP and RSRQ (though maybe not SINR) metrics which are the more detailed/raw information behind the 'bars' you usually see for signal levels.
Yes I've got an android and really appreciate you suggesting those apps. I rang EE a minute ago and they told me my best mast was at Newton Grange, some 17km away as the crow flies. Aside from that EE/TSG seem utterly useless, clueless or not arsed about maximising my speeds with specific bits of hardware. It's left to forums and third party providers.
 
The speeds you're looking at might be rivalled by 3g which has better range. Have you looked at testing 3g as a possible alternative?
 
The speeds you're looking at might be rivalled by 3g which has better range. Have you looked at testing 3g as a possible alternative?
To be honest, I didn't even know you could get 3g hub. Essentially you're suggesting that there may be more 3g masts in closer proximity from which I can get a signal to a hub/antenna? Getting 14mbps presently on the 4G hub hanging off the aerial, serviced by a mast apparently 17km away.
 
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The two 4g routers I have used can select 3g as a default from the router's web interface. On a couple of occasions my nearest tower has been down for maintenance but instead of dropping to 3g the router has managed to lock onto a b20 4g tower further away but with awful speeds. I found that manually selecting 3g in that instance gave me better performance until such time as the near tower was switched back on. Therefore if your 4g signal is borderline you might find selecting 3g will be better due to its greater range. Having said that though 14mb/s would be pushing it.
How do the 3 towers at Sutton Common and Dale View look from your location? (3 being the phone company)
 
Aside from that EE/TSG seem utterly useless, clueless or not arsed about maximising my speeds with specific bits of hardware. It's left to forums and third party providers.
Oh yeah, welcome to the real world..
I mean, if he knew the nearest mast is a long loong 17km away and then he tells you to just not bother with an antenna... that guy is really fed up with his job.

For you and other people in your situation Starlink will be a life changer. Going from this to 400 Mbps downloads will be sensational. :)
 
The two 4g routers I have used can select 3g as a default from the router's web interface. On a couple of occasions my nearest tower has been down for maintenance but instead of dropping to 3g the router has managed to lock onto a b20 4g tower further away but with awful speeds. I found that manually selecting 3g in that instance gave me better performance until such time as the near tower was switched back on. Therefore if your 4g signal is borderline you might find selecting 3g will be better due to its greater range. Having said that though 14mb/s would be pushing it.
How do the 3 towers at Sutton Common and Dale View look from your location? (3 being the phone company)
I've not yet tapped into the remote controls for the router via phone or desktop. Once I figure out how, I'll see about doing that.
 
I've not yet tapped into the remote controls for the router via phone or desktop. Once I figure out how, I'll see about doing that.
If it's Huawei, go to a browser and type in the address bar "192.168.8.1" if its anything else it will be 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.0.1
 
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