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50Gbps service

I mentioned to XGS_Is_On on Discord yesterday that with this kind of speed the terms of service with regards to the fair use policy (FUP) needs to be more concrete than it is usually which is to say, wishy-washy with no numbers and asterisks next to the word "unlimited".

Like even if it had a FUP which says, you can do 100TB a month and after that we reserve the right to throttle you until your next billing date, that is giving consumers something tangible.
Constant high usage is one thing. Overall amount of data pulled is another. I hate these concepts of finite data allocation. It's not as though a switch runs out of bits to give. The former gives way to the argument about over-subscription. The latter gives way to...nothing. It's an arbitrary number that means nothing.

For example, just for the sake of the example, 100TB over a month is 300Mbps of 24x7 usage...nothing on an 8Gb line. Shouldn't be anyway. Break that out to short periods of full usage and we're looking at something around 31 hours to do in total. There too, over the course of a month, shouldn't be an issue.

A lot of data to be sure, but is that problematic for the service provided?
 
Constant high usage is one thing. Overall amount of data pulled is another. I hate these concepts of finite data allocation. It's not as though a switch runs out of bits to give. The former gives way to the argument about over-subscription. The latter gives way to...nothing. It's an arbitrary number that means nothing.

For example, just for the sake of the example, 100TB over a month is 300Mbps of 24x7 usage...nothing on an 8Gb line. Shouldn't be anyway. Break that out to short periods of full usage and we're looking at something around 31 hours to do in total. There too, over the course of a month, shouldn't be an issue.

A lot of data to be sure, but is that problematic for the service provided?
I just used 100TB as an example. I just want something in there instead of just "unlimited" when we all know it's not unlimited and at some arbitary and unknown (to the user) point they'll say you're using too much and boot you.

I've even had this with Hetzner a well known German server host who list on their 1Gb/s servers as having an unlimited upload bandwidth allowance but in reality it's 320TB and if you cross it they'll terminate your rental.

Of course I agree with you that when you use it and how much you use it in a specified period (for example there's a difference between using 100TB over a month vs 100TB in a day as you pointed out) but it was just an example, having some numbers whatever they may be is what I'd like to see, especially on a 40Gb/s service.
 
These speeds, and it being a residential service really go quickly into grey areas with respect to SLAs (for lack of a better term). Here's a big fat pipe, but you can't really use it. Of course, this is speculation until someone actually sees the terms associated with it.

I agree, the innovation is great, but the practicality is a whole other thing.
 
These speeds, and it being a residential service really go quickly into grey areas with respect to SLAs (for lack of a better term). Here's a big fat pipe, but you can't really use it. Of course, this is speculation until someone actually sees the terms associated with it.

I agree, the innovation is great, but the practicality is a whole other thing.
Just to point out no-one has said that there will be a residential service any time soon and the nature of the equipment points to a business service for the foreseeable.

Given businesses pay a premium and their usage tends to be during business hours it'll probably be okay.

I know YouFibre have invested extensively in backhaul to ensure it'll be fine. The national network now bares little resemblance to the one my service was first installed on.
 
Just FYI:

sdx-6405-4-innovation-stripe-1-min.webp
 
I just used 100TB as an example. I just want something in there instead of just "unlimited" when we all know it's not unlimited and at some arbitary and unknown (to the user) point they'll say you're using too much and boot you.

I've even had this with Hetzner a well known German server host who list on their 1Gb/s servers as having an unlimited upload bandwidth allowance but in reality it's 320TB and if you cross it they'll terminate your rental.

Of course I agree with you that when you use it and how much you use it in a specified period (for example there's a difference between using 100TB over a month vs 100TB in a day as you pointed out) but it was just an example, having some numbers whatever they may be is what I'd like to see, especially on a 40Gb/s service.
How do you exceed 320TB of upload on a 1gbit port in a month?

Also the numbers you ask for on a FUP would make the ISP not able to advertise the product as unlimited.
 
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I guess a lot will depend on how much the ONTs are, and how they're swapped.
I don't see any need for any ONT swaps in the vast majority of cases. Newer customers on newer products will get provisioned with new ONTs; and existing customers continue on their existing ONTs, running on different lambdas over the same fibres. Indeed, newer customers on the slower products are likely to be provisioned with the older ONTs.

Even if someone is currently taking the 8G-over-XGSPON service, well, that's what they bought so that's what they get - complete with the (tiny) risk of contention. If the provider launches an 8G-over-50GPON service, and the customer wants to upgrade, then that would be a product switch and usually require recontracting. The new contract pays for the ONT, just like a new customer.

If the current 8G-over-XGSPON customer is hitting the service so hard that they are degrading the service for the other people on the same PON (which in practice is very unlikely and quite difficult to achieve), and the provider wants to fix this proactively, they have the choice to either move them onto 50GPON, or to move them onto their own XGSPON port. The first requires an ONT swap, the second requires some resplicing of the customer connection.
 
I don't see the new 50G PON being widely deployed for a while then. If virtually nobody will be in it it doesn't do much for managing contention.

In 5/10 years time 50G will make much more sense, for now all it does is grab headlines. Maybe they'll launch it as a new teir, but I think most will end up on thier own PON for a while
 
How do you exceed 320TB of upload on a 1gbit port in a month?

Also the numbers you ask for on a FUP would make the ISP not able to advertise the product as unlimited.
What I should have said is, if you're using the port at its maximum potential for the entire month they don't like that.

Their 10Gb equipped servers have well defined 20TB upload limit instead with a 1 euro fee per TB beyond that.

YouFibre could still advertise it as unlimited if they merely throttle the speed you get to something more reasonable if you go over some defined amount, whatever that may be. (100TB, 300TB, 1PB etc).
 
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In terms of FUPs, init7's FUP is a good example IMO:
The Internet subscriptions for private customers are intended for normal personal use. Init7 reserves the right to temporarily or permanently restrict or discontinue the provision of services for connections whose data volume exceeds 0.5 petabyte (500 terabytes) in a period of 4 weeks, or to take another suitable measure.

I agree that data volume is a blunt tool to use, but it's a pretty unambiguous one. Anyone transferring 500 TB over a residential connection (i.e. a sustained average of 1,650 Mb/s) is clearly not using it for "normal personal use" -- I think we agree that level of usage is
 
What I should have said is, if you're using the port at its maximum potential for the entire month they don't like that.

Their 10Gb equipped servers have well defined 20TB upload limit instead with a 1 euro fee per TB beyond that.

YouFibre could still advertise it as unlimited if they merely throttle the speed you get to something more reasonable if you go over some defined amount, whatever that may be. (100TB, 300TB, 1PB etc).
Don't believe they advertise unlimited.
 
What I should have said is, if you're using the port at its maximum potential for the entire month they don't like that.

Their 10Gb equipped servers have well defined 20TB upload limit instead with a 1 euro fee per TB beyond that.

YouFibre could still advertise it as unlimited if they merely throttle the speed you get to something more reasonable if you go over some defined amount, whatever that may be. (100TB, 300TB, 1PB etc).
Yeah no DC would like it I expect, for me they have been good though, content I was hosting hit popularity I was never expecting and was pushing huge amounts of bandwidth for many months (over 200TB), not anything from them at all on it, and no signs of contention. For the cost when you look at alternatives I have no complaints.

I also pushed a fair bit through Cloudflare to relieve pressure on the server and Cloudflare didnt bat an eyelid either.

Back on topic with Youfibre, considering XGS's above reply, I think the safest thing a ISP can do now days is simply not mention any limits whilst also not advertising unlimited.
 
I suspect if you try to max out a 1G connection 24/7 many ISPs would end up terminating your contract, rather than getting into usage limits/unlimited. I would hope that for more mild cases you'd get a warning or two, but I don't think many ISPs would want to keep a customer doing 100TB+ month in month out
 
What I should have said is, if you're using the port at its maximum potential for the entire month they don't like that.

Their 10Gb equipped servers have well defined 20TB upload limit instead with a 1 euro fee per TB beyond that.

YouFibre could still advertise it as unlimited if they merely throttle the speed you get to something more reasonable if you go over some defined amount, whatever that may be. (100TB, 300TB, 1PB etc).
Sounds like a .... quota to me.

Not aimed at you, but it's funny that we're talking effectively about a quota system there, and there are some ISP's that get deridden a lot for historically having such things in place :D
 
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Sounds like a .... quota to me.

Not aimed at you, but it's funny that we're talking effectively about a quota system there, and there are some ISP's that get deridden a lot for historically having such things in place :D
I think the derision is mostly from the quotas being too low. Like 2TB per month on a 1Gb line.
 
I think the derision is mostly from the quotas being too low. Like 2TB per month on a 1Gb line.
That is a fair point - and yeah, it's actually 1TB on the "lower" tier. Though, even their own website states they expect people taking a 1Gbps service to go for the higher tier. I can see their point, if one desires all of the bandwidth, why would you only want a 1TB quota? Seems daft to even offer that as a product, imo.
 
That is a fair point - and yeah, it's actually 1TB on the "lower" tier. Though, even their own website states they expect people taking a 1Gbps service to go for the higher tier. I can see their point, if one desires all of the bandwidth, why would you only want a 1TB quota? Seems daft to even offer that as a product, imo.
I am on gigabit with that quota, as it turns out its enough for me, and yes I do things like download games.
 
I am on gigabit with that quota, as it turns out its enough for me, and yes I do things like download games.
Fair enough. I will confess, I wish it was 2TB, mines annoyingly around 800-1.5TB depending on what is going on in that month. But, my setup is silly anyway. I intend to bin Virgin Media once the contract is up, or hopefully move to some other wholesaler by then.
:)
 
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