Sponsored Links

ADSL24 What to do?

NUT

0
Hi. Long time no post. I posted similair threads on another well known broadband forum ;) But asking here can't do any harm either. OK I'll try my best and explain. I left Sky at the start of the year (Broadband) to go back to BT but expense and messing up of billing regulary became a huge factor and I was granted permission to leave (providing I returned equipment to them which I did) Usually with BT I would sync over 2MB which was all good (as good as I will get) I decided after I had my MAC from BT that I would join ADSL24 (Perhaps a bigger mistake than I imagined) Ever since I joined them? I have lost at least half a meg (which I know might not seem much but when I am in a area with very little speed? Half meg loss is big for me. Anyway, ADSL24 raised a ticket with their supplier C&W and well that is where my problems are really. I was given promises by ADSL24 that they would speak to C&W to have my noise margin lowered to 6 to try and get my speed back to where it should be (I am sure I was on that with BT) but I feel I am getting nowhere with both ADSL24 and C&W because ADSL24 keep giving me updates saying they are waiting for C&W and C&W keep seemingly refusing to do the job requested and this is now been ongoing for over a month and I am nowhere further on to be honest. Can anybody advise me what I should do if there's anything I can do here? I can post my router stats if needed (I am doing this in the hope that somebody can give me advice and maybe a answer to my troubles)
 
I'll have a try but my knowledge of ADSL isn't that great...

From what I read, your move from BT to ADSL24 meant a move from BT Wholesale services to C&W.

Who have set a higher SNR margin.

Which has robbed you of a small amount of speed. Which is significant because it's so slow anyway.

C&W refuse to lower the margin or permit (or provide an interface for) ADSL24 to do that.

So while it probably is possible to eke a small improvement out of the line from what you have now, that isn't going to happen while you remain with ADSL24.

So you need to move to an ISP who supplies either over the BT Wholesale network (for instance Zen) or one which supplies over the BE network (O2) to get the SNR margin back down again to regain that little bit of extra speed.

If there is nothing ADSL24 can do, then there is nothing that can be done. So if that is their position then you need to change ISP.

You don't say whether or not you are in some kind of commitment/contract with them or whether it's month to month. If it is the latter, then move. Zen are very good.

If it is the former then if ADSL24 subscribe to the Ofcom Broadband Speed code of practice *and* your actual speed is *less than the estimate they gave you of what it would be* then you should be able to exit that contract without penalty.

Just a thought: if you have a long and/or poor quality phone line and the realms of 2Mbps is all it can achieve (identical to the one that comes to our house), and you can't get cable then you might very well get faster, possibly even much faster speeds with 3G. Ours delivers between 6Mbps and 12Mbps with 9Mbps being normal.

Example:

2130964855.png
 
I would say that C&W are refusing to lower the limit yes (despite ADSL24 requesting) seems that C&W are refusing to budge and the best that ADSL24 can probably do for me is to keep waiting or as suggested today go to another of their broadband packages which is cheaper but takes away my unlimited package (which is not really an option for me) The other problem is when I signed up for the C&W LLU package? I signed for the 12 month contract option (which I not sure what that will mean)
 
Sponsored Links
Well, if they're not going to, or not able to, change the noise margin then your only option to get the extra bit of speed back would be to move. Unless... just a thought... you can buy a router which enables you to do that at your end and make the change "stick" - that's where my tech experience falls down as I've never done that (when we had ADSL, our SNR set by the exchange kit was 15 or 18...) - I thought it needed the ISP to make the change permanent but could be wrong.

Not an expert with the various packages and quotas but fairly sure O2/BE is unlimited and so if it's at your exchange then that might be your best option, opinions on BE are quite mixed but it does generally get good reviews and seems to appeal to the more tech people who like to fiddle around with the settings like the SNR.

As far as getting out of your contract - ADSL24 are providing a perfectly acceptable (assumption) ADSL "up to XX" meg service with no guarantees so to be able to be released from it without penalty will require the two things I mentioned above to be true, otherwise you'd have to rely on their goodwill to let you leave, or else buy, or wait, the contract out.

Do you really need "unlimited" broadband? As that's what is massively limiting your choice. Did you have it before? Do you really use so much data over a slow link to need to be able to use any amount?
 
Last edited:
Some routers, such as older NetGear models, do allow you to tweak the target noise margin but it's usually only a temporary fix until the routers log fills up and results in an automatic reset.

To make the change you'd usually enable debug mode on the NetGear router and then put this into your browser (adjust for your default router gateway): http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug . After that you'd run a command like this (doing it mostly from memory so I might be wrong).

adslctl configure --snr 125

^ 100 would be a 'Change in target noise margin (dB)' of 0, while 150 would be +3dB and 50 would be -3dB

A more permanent solution might be to flash DGTeams custom firmware, which would retain the change.

http://dgteam.ilbello.com/

Otherwise ADSL24 is ultimately a vISP that resells C&W's service, as opposed to being a truly independent ISP. As a result they really don't have much direct control over the line or line settings, so you'll be somewhat stuck whistling in the wind.
 
Otherwise ADSL24 is ultimately a vISP that resells C&W's service, as opposed to being a truly independent ISP. As a result they really don't have much direct control over the line or line settings, so you'll be somewhat stuck whistling in the wind.

Not true at all. I don't know of a wholesale platform that does not give us "instant" control over line settings/profiles. The problem here is (and why at Aquiss we dropped C&W) is C&W don't do a 6dB profile option. It's pure luck if you get 6dB/Fast Path when a line is first installed, but most lines by default get 9dB/Interleaved. Getting Interleaved removed is possible, but again a little bit of work.

With BT Wholesale and O2 Wholesale you can get as low as 3dB and with TalkTalk Wholesale a 6dB setting is possible.
 
Sponsored Links
As T4F asks, what router/modem are you using?? Some of the chipsets are better than other at extracting that little extra bit of sync from poor lines; switching from Netgear to TPLink gave me nearly a whole megabyte extra - 5.5/6.5Mbps
 
Sorry for late replies. I was using a DGDN3700 NETGEAR which today has just been sent away as that device to be honest is a bit tacky (despite paying 120 quid for it) They are replacing it with a V2 which is apparently a lot better. Right now I am using a old Sky Sagem router (which I hacked for other ISP'S in this case ADSL24) I can post the stats from the sagem right now if required. I also just got a reply back from ADSL24 as per my ticket and it's made my blood boil to be honest. The request to leave was granted...........IF I pay them 25 QUID! Which has really cheesed me off as i'm getting no real support from their supplier. It's as if i'm being punished for reporting a drop in speed since I joined which makes me quite sad. I was actually going to ask Aquiss (Martin) about coming back but with the latest update to my ticket that seems quite unlikely now :(
 
I was actually going to ask Aquiss (Martin) about coming back but with the latest update to my ticket that seems quite unlikely now :(

If you on the same exchange you were previously (based on what we have on record) then we would not use C&W to deliver our unlimited products. Do you want to drop us a quick email to sales @ aquiss . net with your current telephone number and we can confirm exactly what you can get?
 
Sorry for late replies. I was using a DGDN3700 NETGEAR which today has just been sent away as that device to be honest is a bit tacky (despite paying 120 quid for it) They are replacing it with a V2 which is apparently a lot better. Right now I am using a old Sky Sagem router (which I hacked for other ISP'S in this case ADSL24) I can post the stats from the sagem right now if required. I also just got a reply back from ADSL24 as per my ticket and it's made my blood boil to be honest. The request to leave was granted...........IF I pay them 25 QUID! Which has really cheesed me off as i'm getting no real support from their supplier. It's as if i'm being punished for reporting a drop in speed since I joined which makes me quite sad. I was actually going to ask Aquiss (Martin) about coming back but with the latest update to my ticket that seems quite unlikely now :(

When you get your Netgear back follow this thread...
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1839032
(Note you wont need telnet client if you are running XP, its installed by default i think, only win 7)

If you also put it in debug mode as MarkJ (In fact read all his post) mentions any SNR changes you make are basically permanent on most Netgears.

Some reset it if you turn the device off, some dont, all will allow you to reset the changes if they dont work out using the little reset button on the router though obviously that resets everything so back up you routers config first.

Any which reset the change when routers log is full {i think its only old models which do that} you can stop by disabling logging in the router config).

Ive no idea if this is possible on a Sagem modem/router. I doubt it as the ones ive seen are pretty limited config wise. (again if you know the specific model of sagem you have i may be able to point you in the right direction).

If you fancy a new router and dont want to spend a fortune get a TPLINK TDW8960N (that model specifically) it has one of the later broadcom chipsets which are good for flakey lines and tweaking, has a raft of telnet options and a very detailed web interface, N wireless and costs around A BARGAIN £30-40. Telnet SNR changes stick on it until you power the thing off, making any changes you make in telnet easy to reset quickly without wiping out the rest of your routers config.

With that router or your netgear when you get chance i suggest if your SNR is currently around 9db apply a SNR change of --70 that at a guess will bring the SNR down to around 7db, from there you can experiment reducing it by 10 each time until you find a comfortable speed/reliability balance.

In theory you should end up with the speed you previously had and possibly even better.
 
Sponsored Links
When you get your Netgear back follow this thread...
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1839032
(Note you wont need telnet client if you are running XP, its installed by default i think, only win 7)

If you also put it in debug mode as MarkJ (In fact read all his post) mentions any SNR changes you make are basically permanent on most Netgears.

Some reset it if you turn the device off, some dont, all will allow you to reset the changes if they dont work out using the little reset button on the router though obviously that resets everything so back up you routers config first.

Any which reset the change when routers log is full {i think its only old models which do that} you can stop by disabling logging in the router config).

Ive no idea if this is possible on a Sagem modem/router. I doubt it as the ones ive seen are pretty limited config wise. (again if you know the specific model of sagem you have i may be able to point you in the right direction).

If you fancy a new router and dont want to spend a fortune get a TPLINK TDW8960N (that model specifically) it has one of the later broadcom chipsets which are good for flakey lines and tweaking, has a raft of telnet options and a very detailed web interface, N wireless and costs around A BARGAIN £30-40. Telnet SNR changes stick on it until you power the thing off, making any changes you make in telnet easy to reset quickly without wiping out the rest of your routers config.

With that router or your netgear when you get chance i suggest if your SNR is currently around 9db apply a SNR change of --70 that at a guess will bring the SNR down to around 7db, from there you can experiment reducing it by 10 each time until you find a comfortable speed/reliability balance.

In theory you should end up with the speed you previously had and possibly even better.
That's assuming that this particular router will allow the snr to be changed, i can't be certain but i think it was only those with a broadcom chipset ?

Why are C&W so against allowing different configs/line profiles, as it is not they would deal with end users, simply by them giving the reselling ISP access to the console so that these sort of changes could be made may just increase their customer base, I for one would not sign up for their service the way it currently is
 
His Netgear which he is waiting to be returned (or rather waiting on a V2 replacement) should be tweakable in telnet (if it is not one of the first newer ones ive heard of that isnt).

The Tplink i mentioned is what i currently use, its a superb budget router.

Some Sagems do actually have a broadcom chipset so he may even be able to tweak that, but that even is not always needed to tweak a routers SNR.

Some Zyxel routers with an Atheros chipset as an example can also be tweaked

It basically comes down to the commands the router has available when in telnet. Most decent models you can tweak it with a single command line others require 2 or 3 (and can be fussy).

With regards to C&W i can only speak from my experience of it being a very reliable product. The C&W line i have access to under this roof is interleaved but only 3ms or so different to my BE line which is in fast path 3db mode (aka gaming mode). For some things over seas the C&W is actually better as it takes less hops and doesnt hit what is renowned (at least for me) on BE to be an issue (IE telfonica hops).

The SNR on the C&W line is also by default 9db but i can tweak that down to 3.5-4db before things start to get a bit unreliable. Both the BE line and C&W line run at about the same speed (sometime the BE one syncs 100k or so faster sometimes the C&W one syncs at a higher rate). In reliability terms the C&W line CRUSHES the BE line staying synced for MONTHS at a time as opposed to BEs that only stays synced for a few days NO MATTER WHAT PROFILE i shove it on, or router used. (Not the line either as its never dropped like that with prior providers).

A C&W reseller is who the BE line will end up being moved to if no real unlimted FTTC product apart from Sky appears on the market before Xmas. (dont really want to unbundle the phone side of things too much of a nightmare still to move a phone line back to BT and ensure you still have the same number).

I wouldnt recommend anyone dismiss any service just because it doesnt have options to tweak its SNR at the ISP end, especially if your own router can do it.

My BE line as an example is unreliable at 3db (that will lose sync every 2 days or so set at that) at 6db it will re-sync every 5 days or so (im talking rough averages here). I balance this out (so to speak) by having a 3db fast path profile set and then tweak the SNR up to around 5db using telnet and a --140 command. This gives me 1Mb more downstream than a 6db profile does, a few kbs higher on the upstream also, but also allows me to stay synced the 5 days on average the 6db profile gives. Giving the best (IF you can call it that from a shockingly unreliable product) of both worlds.
 
The DGND3700v2 is tweakable with telnet. Just enable telnet (it's for a NETGEAR DG834GT but the enable telnet instructions are the same), login to it with your web username and password and enter "adsl configure --VALUE".

Done.
 
Update time. Regarding the "Replacement" I am still waiting for it. I do know that the box itself was signed for via royal mail and I posted it to the address given to me by representative dealing with it but still no replacement. Saying that though my temporary sagem I am using just now. Thursday afternoon something happened (connection went down) and my speeds are roughly now where they are when I was with BT but I am very put off with this whole affair with ADSL24 to be honest but seems I will be tied to the contract anyway (as they are obviously not going to budge on the fee required) I am a little fearful for the future to be honest incase anything happens again with ADSL24 their suppliers and I get the same hassle again I had if anything like this happen in the future. I am completely torn as to what to do now (of course I will tinker when the replacement device decides to eventually turn up)
 
Sponsored Links
I am a little fearful for the future to be honest incase anything happens again with ADSL24 their suppliers and I get the same hassle again I had if anything like this happen in the future. I am completely torn as to what to do now (of course I will tinker when the replacement device decides to eventually turn up)

What hassle? and leaving an ISP as they wont set noise margins to your exact requirement is a bit silly theres not many that will do that anyway.
 
What hassle? and leaving an ISP as they wont set noise margins to your exact requirement is a bit silly theres not many that will do that anyway.


I'm not asking for any ISP to set my noise margin to anything specific (It was ADSL24 that asked the supplier to set it to 6 yet it took about 4 weeks to do) I dread the fact that if ever a problem arises and they need the supplier to do something about it again? How much of a nightmare it may take for them to do even the most basic of tasks again. Even Aquiss who replied to this thread stated that the thing that it took C&W 4 weeks to do they could have it done in more or less a matter of minutes. Seems a no brainer if I could go elsewhere for things to happen much quicker than the weeks it took.
 
Say that other people we're in a similair situation to what I was in. There was other ISP'S suppliers that could do the basic tasks a lot quicker than ADSL24'S suppliers can. What would you do?
 
Whether Noise Margins can be altered or set to anything specific like what was asked for/needed/wanted (DOESNT matter) comes down to the wholesaled package an ISP supply.

NO BT wholesale ISP can set a specific noise margin and ensure it sticks to it (BT has line training etc)

Talk Talk/CPW wholesale packages can only allow SET amount of profiles to be set.

SKY i dont believe will set specific noise margins for you (they also have some type of line profiling)

BE/O2 Wholesale (i think it depends on the ISP) can set 3,6 and 9db profiles (although what is done on the BE system TECHNICALLY SPEAKING isnt true noise margin alteration, interleaving despite what BE retail claim is not ENTIRELY off either).

So i still do not know what you mean by others could do what you wanted/basic tasks.

Im not even sure what you require now, i was under the impression from your opening post an alteration to noise margin is what you wanted to increase your speed.

Either way good luck in whatever you do. With a line that only does around 2Mb anyway you aint gonna get much better no matter what.
 
Top
Cheap BIG ISPs for 100Mbps+
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Vodafone UK ISP Logo
Vodafone £24.00 - 26.00
150Mbps
Gift: None
NOW UK ISP Logo
NOW £24.00
100Mbps
Gift: None
Plusnet UK ISP Logo
Plusnet £25.99
145Mbps
Gift: £50 Reward Card
Large Availability | View All
Cheapest ISPs for 100Mbps+
Gigaclear UK ISP Logo
Gigaclear £17.00
200Mbps
Gift: None
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Hey! Broadband UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Youfibre UK ISP Logo
Youfibre £23.99
150Mbps
Gift: None
Large Availability | View All
Sponsored Links
The Top 15 Category Tags
  1. FTTP (6026)
  2. BT (3639)
  3. Politics (2721)
  4. Business (2439)
  5. Openreach (2405)
  6. Building Digital UK (2330)
  7. Mobile Broadband (2146)
  8. FTTC (2083)
  9. Statistics (1901)
  10. 4G (1816)
  11. Virgin Media (1764)
  12. Ofcom Regulation (1582)
  13. Fibre Optic (1467)
  14. Wireless Internet (1462)
  15. 5G (1407)
Sponsored

Copyright © 1999 to Present - ISPreview.co.uk - All Rights Reserved - Terms  ,  Privacy and Cookie Policy  ,  Links  ,  Website Rules