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Antenna for Three 5G Hub?

I was on the edge of taking a punt on the Bluespot Mini 5G only just to see what it's performance was like, as 12db gain claimed, but performing a few little tests with the inferior external white antennas, it seems evident that all four and notably the bottom two TS9 ports to me allow 4G connectivity. My sumation is that all four ports are wide band to allow 4G 4X4 MIMO and 5G 4X4 MIMO, contrary to what I've been told (Top two 4G, bottom two 5G). Happy to be corrected though.

4G receiption test:
Testing four ext ports_Three 5G Annotated.jpg

Also have collated the radiation diagrams, gain and VSWR graphs for the XPOL 24 and P-60 antennas. Looking at the 3.5GHz - 3.6GHz range, both seems to give a similar ~8.5dB gain, maybe XPOL 24 slightly higher nearer 9dB, XPOL 24 giving a higher 11 dB gain at 3.8GHz. P-60 seem more directional. If I'm reading right, then at 3.5GHz, the XPOL beam width is around 60 degrees and P60 is about 30 degrees. Noting the scales are different between antennas... the P60 is 0dB to -21dB and XPOL-24 is 0dB to -40dB:

XPOL 24 vs P60.jpg
 
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Hi Sizmax

Where have you got to with the Quwireless panel antenna? You ditching it or got it to work any better on APEX?

Hi, sorry for delay was doing a load of testing before I reported back and been really busy. So I tested it all over the place outside and holding it outside various windows etc and in the loft in about 20 different positions and then without it and just the router and found (as someone mentioned - sorry can't remember who) that the internal antenna's seem to be much better!

I didn't test on the roof apex, because I couldn't justify the cost of putting up there and then paying someone again to get it down, it would be nice to do that to ensure this was a fair test but really would it have made that much difference? I'm very doubtful. So yes the antenna is going back.

I actually found in one area of the loft I can get 5G which I hadn't found before (just the router). I was surprised. However, that said, just now I was messing with it again and picked up 5G inside and during one test got 130mbit down. This was a shock as this hasn't happened before and I'm 1.8KM from the mast. But the speeds are extremely variable I can do 10 speed tests and get results anything from 30mbit to 60mbit to 100mit etc. Its very unreliable and unpredictable! Not to mention frustrating.

I would put up with that if the upload was at least reasonable but its not. Its generally less than 5mbit often 1-3mbit up which is pointless.

I've tried switching just to 4G and the upload gets better but only slightly may hit 10mbit up sometimes if I'm luckily. It was showing LTE-A RSRP minus 96 is best I saw. Obviously this is a Three issue as my Talkmobile was much better upload speed although still not anything that amazing and still very variable.

Talkmobile may limit speeds so may be worth trying Lebara.

I assume I've hit the nail on the head here that finding the optimum is very difficult and time consuming?!

Not sure where I go from here....?
 
Hi, sorry for delay was doing a load of testing before I reported back and been really busy. So I tested it all over the place outside and holding it outside various windows etc and in the loft in about 20 different positions and then without it and just the router and found (as someone mentioned - sorry can't remember who) that the internal antenna's seem to be much better!

I didn't test on the roof apex, because I couldn't justify the cost of putting up there and then paying someone again to get it down, it would be nice to do that to ensure this was a fair test but really would it have made that much difference? I'm very doubtful. So yes the antenna is going back.

I actually found in one area of the loft I can get 5G which I hadn't found before (just the router). I was surprised. However, that said, just now I was messing with it again and picked up 5G inside and during one test got 130mbit down. This was a shock as this hasn't happened before and I'm 1.8KM from the mast. But the speeds are extremely variable I can do 10 speed tests and get results anything from 30mbit to 60mbit to 100mit etc. Its very unreliable and unpredictable! Not to mention frustrating.

I would put up with that if the upload was at least reasonable but its not. Its generally less than 5mbit often 1-3mbit up which is pointless.

I've tried switching just to 4G and the upload gets better but only slightly may hit 10mbit up sometimes if I'm luckily. It was showing LTE-A RSRP minus 96 is best I saw. Obviously this is a Three issue as my Talkmobile was much better upload speed although still not anything that amazing and still very variable.

Talkmobile may limit speeds so may be worth trying Lebara.

I assume I've hit the nail on the head here that finding the optimum is very difficult and time consuming?!

Not sure where I go from here....?

Thanks for the feedback! Frustrating for you. Sounds like you're in a similar situation to me, I am formerly outside 5g, but can just about get Vodafone, 3 and EE. I'm 2.9 km away from two 5G masts which are 20 degrees apart, one is Vodafone, the other is EE/Three. Best place for me is on one bedroom windowsill where i can get EE for the best signal. It has great SNR of 20dB, but signal is always below -100dB which is not great. Uploads are very slow and downloads are anything from 60 to 150Mbps.
 
As an aside, I typically recommend testing first with internal antennas before assessing the external antennas but it's not for the reason people might guess.

Typically, people assume I'm assessing the external antenna when really it's the router that I'm questioning.

A rubbish antenna is unquestionably useless, but people with any sense will buy a known-good model with reports of success so there's little doubting the effectiveness of the external antenna which could anyway be checked with a higher-end router.

For respected antenna brands, one can also compare the price of the antenna versus the router, and if the router is around the same price, it's usually the router which is the weakest link.

Personally, I think many parts of Europe are sufficiently densely populated that it's only the most rural and sparsely populated areas which require external mounting. We also see evidence of this with reports of success in lofts. If a well-known antenna brand does not out-perform internal antennas, the question becomes which component do we doubt the most and I appreciate not everyone has a second router to compare against.
 
Sizmax, just looking at that QuPanel antenna's datasheet. It specifies 5.5dB gain at the N78 band frequencies with further losses in the LMR195 cable (1 to 1.5dB of loss at 3.5GHz per meter). Which potentially means the signal presented to the modem would be less than the internal antennas, as the 5103 datasheet states internal antennas provide 5dB gain.
 
Woha, just discovered a newish(?) Iskra P-62 Antenna ...


1400-3800Hz, so gain not so good at lower LTE frequencies, but over upper LTE and 5G 10 to 12dB! 12bB (2.5GHz) for LTE and 10.5dB for 3.5GHz.

Interestingly as dazmatic states, the Bluespot antennas are rebranded all over the world. In finland it appears they are known as Dawn:


Dawn 4x4 version:
Teardown of same US antenna, which I think is just two Bluespot 4g/5g Antennas in one package:

 
As an aside, I typically recommend testing first with internal antennas before assessing the external antennas but it's not for the reason people might guess.

Typically, people assume I'm assessing the external antenna when really it's the router that I'm questioning.

A rubbish antenna is unquestionably useless, but people with any sense will buy a known-good model with reports of success so there's little doubting the effectiveness of the external antenna which could anyway be checked with a higher-end router.

For respected antenna brands, one can also compare the price of the antenna versus the router, and if the router is around the same price, it's usually the router which is the weakest link.

Personally, I think many parts of Europe are sufficiently densely populated that it's only the most rural and sparsely populated areas which require external mounting. We also see evidence of this with reports of success in lofts. If a well-known antenna brand does not out-perform internal antennas, the question becomes which component do we doubt the most and I appreciate not everyone has a second router to compare against.

I did test the internal antennas before buying external but didn't realise to actually test I'd need to try 20 probably more slightly different locations. Also I'm sure I could test the exact same spot and sometimes get 5G sometimes not.

So my original question remains what is a good 4x4 MIMO antenna that supports the Three router? And all the 5G bands for Three 5G? Sounds like one doesn't exist!
 
I did test the internal antennas before buying external but didn't realise to actually test I'd need to try 20 probably more slightly different locations. Also I'm sure I could test the exact same spot and sometimes get 5G sometimes not.

So my original question remains what is a good 4x4 MIMO antenna that supports the Three router? And all the 5G bands for Three 5G? Sounds like one doesn't exist!
A quick look on the Zyxel Community forum doesn't suggest too much luck with similar Zyxel routers and a selection of different antennas tried.

If the router was supplied by Three UK and supported by Three UK, best practice is to approach them for a recommendation and guidance. If they refuse, you can validly approach Zyxel for a recommendation and guidance. The Zyxel community forum is probably a good place to see what people report against specific antennas used with other Zyxel routers: https://community.zyxel.com/en/search?query=antenna&scope=site&source=community

As an illustration, the NR5101 would be expected to be similar to the NR5103E and the NR5101 design and functionality to allow usage of an external antenna is not great: https://community.zyxel.com/en/discussion/11861/external-antenna-on-a-nr5101-router

Most people on this forum seem to use the NR5103E with internal antennas and I don't recall reading of any recent success with external antennas (perhaps copy that success story if you find it on this or another forum).

I would have expected the QuPanel to at least be functional and ok, but if the report was bad, I slightly doubt the consumer router more than the external antenna which is a single-function product. A check of the signal parameters would hint at whether the antenna had any functional impact at all and I would prefer to at least see a decrease in parameters than no change in SINR at all, even when trying 360° of orientations.

To be concrete, I would be curious which bands and frequencies the QuPanel was able to impact on the NR5103E. Ideally many of them, but at the very least it should impact some high frequency band, otherwise connecting the antenna might have had no effect (which might be explainable near a mast but not when far away).
 
Not that it's much use to you, but I've gone for a Panorama 4x4 MIMO Sharkfin for the boat, with 80cm cable total (30cm on antenna, 50cm SMA-TS9 adapters) which should be a lot better than the internal antennae (especially inside a steel box!), and covers all the UK bands:


Claimed peak gain is up to 8dBi-9dBi (see data sheet), presumably because it takes advantage of the additive signal reflection from being mounted close to a ground plane (metal roof) -- like a boundary effect microphone, for those familiar with them -- and cable losses should be <1dB.

Don't yet know yet how big an improvement I'll actually get because the router is sitting on the windowsill next to me and the boat (with antenna fitted) is being fitted out 160 miles away... ;-)
 
I was on the edge of taking a punt on the Bluespot Mini 5G only just to see what it's performance was like, as 12db gain claimed, but performing a few little tests with the inferior external white antennas, it seems evident that all four and notably the bottom two TS9 ports to me allow 4G connectivity. My sumation is that all four ports are wide band to allow 4G 4X4 MIMO and 5G 4X4 MIMO, contrary to what I've been told (Top two 4G, bottom two 5G). Happy to be corrected though.

4G receiption test:
View attachment 6140

Also have collated the radiation diagrams, gain and VSWR graphs for the XPOL 24 and P-60 antennas. Looking at the 3.5GHz - 3.6GHz range, both seems to give a similar ~8.5dB gain, maybe XPOL 24 slightly higher nearer 9dB, XPOL 24 giving a higher 11 dB gain at 3.8GHz. P-60 seem more directional. If I'm reading right, then at 3.5GHz, the XPOL beam width is around 60 degrees and P60 is about 30 degrees. Noting the scales are different between antennas... the P60 is 0dB to -21dB and XPOL-24 is 0dB to -40dB:

View attachment 6139
If all four ports were used to give 4x4 MIMO on both 4G and 5G, I'd expect either pair would work as 2x2 MIMO for both 4G and 5G, but that doesn't seem to be the case going by what others have reported.
 
Nice, where from? How much?

Finland, satshop.fi. Just over 100 quid inc shipping. Just for testing as only two antennas, but gain is great over n78, but expecting to be highly directional. I will test in loft first.


I was told 3.5GHz only really propagates to about 2km max, but clearly it does as I'm 2.9km away, but notably on the edge of coverage. So advised to get an LPDA rather than a panel antenna. Will see how these work, otherwise will get an XPOL-24. If I want to use Vodafone the ENDC 4G mast is in a different direction to the 5G so would have to play about with antenna directions. Plan is to use these two P62's on the two Main ports with the supplied crappy white antennas on the Div ports and then try the P62's on bottom two ports and crappy white antennas on top two for 4g and see where I go from there.

Currently I can stream 4K Tv without antennas on 5G (just).. but especially on Vodafone in the evenings the pings go up to 60 to 100ms and DL speed decreases to around 30 mbps from 150 during the day. Will see if antennas help.
 
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I received the Iskra P-62's and have performed some initial testing in bedroom window (lol) and latterly mounted in the loft (not ideal). Giving a better 4G signal quality and 4G throughput and ping over internal antennas in the loft and that's with just 2 antennas and 10m of coax! But 5G downloads are not as fast as router on bedroom windowsill with int antennas. I guess need to mount outside for greatest effect and cut cables to a shorter length. I get a fair to poor 5G Vodafone signal at times, but fully expected given the tiled roof and 2x2 mimo.

Not sure where to go next terms of a 2nd pair of antennas. Mounting for LPDAs on a pole near the roof will be difficult given the direction of one of the masts. Do wonder if should have gone for a 4x4 panel.. we'll see.
 
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I received the Iskra P-62's and have performed some initial testing in bedroom window (lol) and latterly mounted in the loft (not ideal). Giving a better 4G signal quality and 4G throughput and ping over internal antennas in the loft and that's with just 2 antennas and 10m of coax! But 5G downloads are not as fast as router on bedroom windowsill with int antennas. I guess need to mount outside for greatest effect and cut cables to a shorter length. I get a fair to poor 5G Vodafone signal at times, but fully expected given the tiled roof and 2x2 mimo.

Not sure where to go next terms of a 2nd pair of antennas. Mounting for LPDAs on a pole near the roof will be difficult given the direction of one of the masts. Do wonder if should have gone for a 4x4 panel.. we'll see.
Thanks for update. Are they just like TV aerials?
 
Thanks for update. Are they just like TV aerials?

Hi, well I can tell you what I've messed about with, but not really conclusive or ideal testing conditions. I only have two aerials for initial testing rather than the ideal four. Also have 10m of high quality cable, so ideally cut down shorter than this, also ideall would need to be mounted on the roof.

I get slightly better 4G signal strength with antennas in the loft and about the same 5G signal. Pings are a bit lower. Speeds are less - obviously because no 4x4 MIMO. With Vodafone (Mast 2.9km away) I get between 80 and 150mbps and 50ms + pings on windowsill with int antennas. Using two P-62's in the loft I get 30mbps and 20 - 25ms pings. Roof tiles not ideal for 5G signals. But i have been able to pick up an n1 5G band that wasn't present before.

Here are some pictures.

20230508_125914.webp

20230508_131337.webp


Not sure where to go next.
1) mount these two above roof apex and understand if external and height yields better RSSI

2) Buy another set of P-62's or P-60's (for 700MHz coverage) or

3) move to a 4x4 panel.

I also have the option of EE and Three at a mast 15 degrees away from the Vodafone mast at similar 3km distance. So provider considerations too.

Little hesitant as don't like wasting money if an external antenna isn't going to make a difference.
 
I did test the internal antennas before buying external but didn't realise to actually test I'd need to try 20 probably more slightly different locations. Also I'm sure I could test the exact same spot and sometimes get 5G sometimes not.

So my original question remains what is a good 4x4 MIMO antenna that supports the Three router? And all the 5G bands for Three 5G? Sounds like one doesn't exist!
My NR5103E internal antennas are work out much better with vodafone (lebara) 4G+ as I getting speed of range between 110-170 Meg down and 45-75 Meg up. Far much better than my Three (smarty) 5G as I used to get 450-650 down and 7-17 Meg up in the loft but that now disappear for three weeks with poor 5G (less than 60Meg) as I have cancelled smarty and went for Lebara instead been using it for 1 month and surprised it was good download and upload speed for 28 days and the router just sat on the pc desk in my pc room far better than in the loft (from smarty).

Smarty 5G is big issues here so I will try again in a year time if anything improvement.
 
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