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Antenna recommendations for NR5103E

madbilly

Casual Member
Hi everyone,

I've been reading as much as I can on your forums however I've got to the point where I need to ask some questions!

We recently moved house and found that the mobile data connection is very poor, especially indoors because the house has thick stone walls. I work from home and fibre installation is going to take months (Gigaclear, can't find the pot, separate conversation!). I've ordered bog standard ADSL but in the meantime I need a better mobile data connection. I bought an NR5103E from Cex as that seemed to be a good option based on what I'd read here, and it's certainly been better than hanging my phone out of the window! However, getting a strong 4G connection has been tricky (there's no 5G near here), finding that the best option is to put the modem on the outer window sill on the top floor held in place by the half-open window, with this I get about 40Mbps DL with EE and about 7 UL. Not bad, you might say, but obviously having the modem out of the window isn't going to work when it's raining! So, I need an antenna I can stick out of that window, and maybe eventually mount to the side of the house.

The nearest mast is at Birdlip radio station, less than one mile away, but whilst my phone will connect to it the modem will not with EE, though it will with 3 but unfortunately the transfer rates are much lower (~4 Mbps DL and <1Mbps DL). I've also got SIMs on O2 and Vodafone networks but they're not as good signal and according to Cellmapper they're only band 20 masts, not band 3 (and those masts aren't at Birdlip radio station anyway, they're further away) so I presume that the data bandwidth would be even lower. On EE the modem instead prefers to connect to the mast at Miserden, which is 3-4 miles away although possibly a clearer path, because the path to the Birdlip mast could be compromised by all the trees which are close to our house between us and the Birdlip mast. I've used the Ubiquiti ISP design centre https://ispdesign.ui.com/ to try and estimate the topography here, and there should be a LoS to the Birdlip mast and actually a bit trickier to Miserden (the Fresnel zone gets interfered with), so even with the trees I'm surprised the modem prefers Miserden.

Onto the antenna options: I was initially going to go for an omni-directional, cross-polarised antenna with the best gain for band 3 that I could afford and that would fit within the permitted development restrictions (1m max length, 35 litres max volume), however I've read some threads that suggest a linear polarised antenna may be better? Or maybe just cheaper! A directional antenna would almost certainly get a stronger signal, and now I've figured out that Miserden is the way I need to point it then it probably would make sense for a permanent installation, however for hanging out of the window I doubt I'd be able to align it well. I also hadn't figured out if, with the NR5103E and only a 4G signal available (no 5G), whether a 4x4 MIMO or two 2x2 MIMO would be better given that I've read that the antenna connections are for different frequencies... or maybe even 4 separate SISO antennas?! Although, permitted development rules mean I can only have two antenna, one max 1m and one max 0.6m, unless one is targetting sub-GHz frequencies in which case it gets a free pass! I don't really want to get into planning permission territory, even if these are temporary antennas.

Lastly, I can't find anywhere an official document which says which antenna connections are for which frequencies, is there one? I've read lots of opinions on this on the forums but they're not all consistent.

I think that covers it. Helpful thoughts and recommendations appreciated :)

Cheers :)
 
There is quite a bit of speculation on the four ports and what does what, but it is safe to say that all four are wide band, certainly from what I have done with my testing. I run a Poynting XPOL-24 mounted externally. There are other panel antenna options, but I found XPOL-24 had the highest gain for the frequencies I require. Also played around with Iskra P-62's but they are larger LDPA antennas.

Some links:

my implementation:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/antenna-for-three-5g-hub.39528/post-328025
 
Hi Liono,

Thanks for your recommendation, good to know that all the ports are probably wideband.

How many degrees of leeway do directional antennas have? As I said, hanging/leaning out of the window isn't going to give me much control.

Ultimately, maybe I could mount an antenna in the attic, hoping that the concrete block wall doesn't cause too much attenuation. The TV aerial is already up there so I wonder if the two could interfere with each other if in too close proximity.

Cheers :)
 
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Keep it away from anything metal if you can.

Also, some cinder blocks used in older houses are almost impervious to radio waves.
 
Yes, anything metal makes sense, but unfortunately I think that might be what the window frames are made from! Interesting that cinder blocks might block a lot, I had thought they'd be more pervious than brick, certainly more than stone. I'll try and see how it is.

If I had two 2x2 MIMO antennas then could they connect to separate masts? If I had 4 SISO antennas would that work with this modem?
 
Wondering more about using multiple antennas, would two vertical antennas work if mounted diagonally along the roof line on the gable end, such that they have LoS to the transmitter but aren't actually poking above the roof line? I'm thinking of this for aesthetic reasons.
 
Hi Liono,

Thanks for your recommendation, good to know that all the ports are probably wideband.

How many degrees of leeway do directional antennas have? As I said, hanging/leaning out of the window isn't going to give me much control.

Ultimately, maybe I could mount an antenna in the attic, hoping that the concrete block wall doesn't cause too much attenuation. The TV aerial is already up there so I wonder if the two could interfere with each other if in too close proximity.

Cheers :)

directionality depends on the antenna spec. Panel directional antennas generally have a wider radiation pattern so are less fussy (not always the case), whereas LDPAs usually have a more focused beam pattern and so are more fussy.

From my experience, unless you have a good strong signal then n78 (~3500Mhz) 5G signals will have trouble penetrating into the loft with tiles etc. Lower frequencies fair better, say 2500 and below.. YMMV. My Narrow Band TV antenna is mounted in the loft and works fine BTW.
 
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There's no 5G around here, the best bands are 3 and 20. But still I take your advice that the loft might not have good reception. I don't know whether my TV aerial is narrow band or not, I'm not that savvy on these things.

I've been wondering a bit more about whether a MIMO antenna is really needed, or whether I should just get a large SISO one, though unfortunately the SISO antenna I'd prefer to get is over 1m long so strictly speaking I'd need planning permission for it :(
 
Do you not pick up the B1+3+20+28 site on Three? It's eNB 51522, I assume you are considering EE is preferring a different site. I'm guessing not considering topography but you'd probably have a much better experience if you can connect to that.

I should have O2, EE and Vodafone located partially around the area on NetMonster which might be helpful if you want me to send my backup file over

---

Also, I don't know how it'll be like for you, but I had miserable performance with eNB 8300 a while back, I'll bring it up if I can (4mi distance roughly)

 
No I can't get eNB 51522, I think that's below the horizon from where we are. The phone and router will connect to Three's eNB 8300 on Shab Hill, Birdlip Radio Station, but the data rate is poor. When using an EE sim the router prefers to connect to eNB 22859 at Miserden rather than the eNB 31051 at Shab Hill, even though the latter is closer.

Very helpful to know that Three is unreliable, that's somewhat what I've found too. I initially found EE unreliable but after playing around with modem locations I've found the best spot and in that place EE is consistently decent rates - it's just not a suitable location for the model when it's raining!
 
No I can't get eNB 51522, I think that's below the horizon from where we are. The phone and router will connect to Three's eNB 8300 on Shab Hill, Birdlip Radio Station, but the data rate is poor. When using an EE sim the router prefers to connect to eNB 22859 at Miserden rather than the eNB 31051 at Shab Hill, even though the latter is closer.

Very helpful to know that Three is unreliable, that's somewhat what I've found too. I initially found EE unreliable but after playing around with modem locations I've found the best spot and in that place EE is consistently decent rates - it's just not a suitable location for the model when it's raining!
I know you've already found it out from your research, but definitely not worth considering O2. I do recall them having poor data rates on the A417 unfortunately. 3G might be worth looking into considering O2 isn't doing any switchoff trials in the area yet but probably not worth it (I believe the router supports 3G?). Should have better signal on 3G to 4G, although I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll make.

I'd say EE is probably your best shot here in all honesty with the spectrum they have in the area, but I'd check whether your data through eNB 8300 is using B20 as the primary carrier. That could be causing issues, since for some reason, even when aggregating B20+3, I found performance to be terrible when B20 was the primary carrier (I know for definite on 12799 but I don't know about other sites).
 
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Our neighbours say that O2 is most reliable for geographic area coverage, i.e. they cover more area m2 locally than other networks, which fits with what I've seen on the Giffgaff SIM I've got in my phone, but the data rates are very low.

I'll check those things on EE, thanks :)
 
Our neighbours say that O2 is most reliable for geographic area coverage, i.e. they cover more area m2 locally than other networks, which fits with what I've seen on the Giffgaff SIM I've got in my phone, but the data rates are very low.

I'll check those things on EE, thanks :)
I think Vodafone is actually geographically, but that's for 2G. EE is the best geographically for 4G.

Vodafone has B8+20 meanwhile O2 only have B20, would probably get better speeds on Vodafone.
 
I think Vodafone is actually geographically, but that's for 2G. EE is the best geographically for 4G.

Vodafone has B8+20 meanwhile O2 only have B20, would probably get better speeds on Vodafone.
Also, I don't know whether you know about the whole Vodafone/O2 host thing, might be worth mentioning it now.

All sites in the area are managed by Vodafone (and will be shared between O2 and Vodafone) because we're in the West, although there is an O2 only site on Chosen Hill but it's 2G only. Vodafone will generally provide a better experience than O2 in the area, I've only had one obscure scenario when O2 was better. Hoping that changes when things get unwound 🤞.

Also, about NetMonster, I've filled in my database file with data for 4G around your area (2G/3G is a bit more of a pain, there are some mappings in the GL4 area but not covering your area; I only have really mapped around the A417 in that part of GL4) which might be helpful regarding signals, might show other nearby sites it's picking up.


To import it in NetMonster, click the hamburger menu icon > Database > Import and pick the NTM file from the link above.

Edit: You might need to add the .ntm file extension, didn't realise the Sharkey Cloud feature removed the file extension when sharing the link of the file.
 
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