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B535 on three - high latency

Gandi69

Regular Member
Following on from my other threads I’ve finally got my 535 up and running using three. However I’m finding an issue whereby if I’m downloading something via it and try to do something else say on another device on the network, the latency goes through the roof. Usually latency is around 40-60ms when not doing much, but when downloading large files it’s up in the 800-1200+ on other devices and is thus unusable.
I could traffic shape via the pfsense router it’s connected to but 1) that’s difficult with fluctuating download and upload and 2) I feel something isn’t quite right here as I don’t recall my b311 on smarty doing this? Luckily I’ve still got that setup so can test it when I get time
 

TTJJ

ULTIMATE Member
The B535 is pretty sturdy but it’s not the most powerful of things - it could be that when downloading a file it’s using a lot of its processing capacity.

Plus you’re on Three. Their traffic management system has these quirks, it seems to take into account the site you’re on, the device you’re accessing from, how long you’ve been connected, what you’re actually downloading etc. Maybe if you’re downloading it takes their system longer to analyse your other traffic? Just a guess.
 

Buggerlugz

ULTIMATE Member
Following on from my other threads I’ve finally got my 535 up and running using three. However I’m finding an issue whereby if I’m downloading something via it and try to do something else say on another device on the network, the latency goes through the roof. Usually latency is around 40-60ms when not doing much, but when downloading large files it’s up in the 800-1200+ on other devices and is thus unusable.
I could traffic shape via the pfsense router it’s connected to but 1) that’s difficult with fluctuating download and upload and 2) I feel something isn’t quite right here as I don’t recall my b311 on smarty doing this? Luckily I’ve still got that setup so can test it when I get time

This is one of Three broadbands "quirks and features", the same feature that regardless of how much bandwidth you have available at any time if you have one device doing something, you generally can't do anything else on another device.

Its always been the same for me on Three. Xbox starts an update, can't watch anything on youtube etc etc....
 

Gandi69

Regular Member
This is one of Three broadbands "quirks and features", the same feature that regardless of how much bandwidth you have available at any time if you have one device doing something, you generally can't do anything else on another device.

Its always been the same for me on Three. Xbox starts an update, can't watch anything on youtube etc etc....

I think it’s simply saturating the connection after running some more tests. Some traffic shaping should clear that up but it’s difficult (if not impossible) to do that when the speed fluctuates so greatly
 

Gandi69

Regular Member
Traffic shaping the connection with limiters doesn't seem to actually make much difference here, ping times are still astronomical if you are putting the connection to task and making it do some "work". If you have multiple hefty downloads running (which i've simulated on some virtual machines).
The traffic shaping (FQ_CODEL/limiters) I'm using works beautifully on my other wired connection so I believe this issue to be something three are doing to the traffic on their network which is outside of my control.
This doesn't seem to be time dependent either in busy periods, I tested this around 2/3am when three's network generally picks up a bit for me and still the same issue was happening. Very frustrating
 

Buggerlugz

ULTIMATE Member
You tried it over a local VPN? (that may rule out three messing about with packets). I just think their network is so overloaded this is just norm for three.
 

Gandi69

Regular Member
I’m just trying the setup above using the b535 but with a Vodafone sim in it. It does appear to do the same thing which I didn’t expect. Could this be down to the 535 I wonder?
 

Gandi69

Regular Member
I can also rule out my own internal network causing issues as if I connect to the 535s own WiFi the problem still persists. Sorry my findings seem to be a bit all over the place here but I’d be intrigued to know if anyone else is suffering this. How can these routers cope with heavy use if someone doing a simple download of large files can effectively drop performance of the connection into unusable territory? Clearly this doesn’t go for just threes network by the looks of things
 

tartanGuru

Regular Member
I’m running a 535-232 (generic non-three version) on EE and don’t see this issue. I’ve disabled the built in wifi as I have an eero mesh system but do still use the DHCP server and firewall on the router.
 

GaryW

Regular Member
Traffic shaping the connection with limiters doesn't seem to actually make much difference here, ping times are still astronomical if you are putting the connection to task and making it do some "work". If you have multiple hefty downloads running (which i've simulated on some virtual machines).
The traffic shaping (FQ_CODEL/limiters) I'm using works beautifully on my other wired connection so I believe this issue to be something three are doing to the traffic on their network which is outside of my control.
This doesn't seem to be time dependent either in busy periods, I tested this around 2/3am when three's network generally picks up a bit for me and still the same issue was happening. Very frustrating
I was going to suggest using SQM, but you're ahead of me! As you say, it's a bit challenging anyway with LTE due to the inconsistent speeds so you have to be quite conservative with the limits you specify (or vary them during the day). In theory CAKE has an adaptive option that should work better with LTE, but in practice all it does is automatically lower the limit when the line is quiet and then is too slow to increase the limit again when you do have activity so it ends up making things worse!

I'm on EE with a B818 in modem bridge mode connected to an ER-X with SQM configured on upload only and don't have any significant bufferbloat issues, so it must be something weird going on with Three.
 

Gandi69

Regular Member
Im using this though a self built pfsense box, with plenty of resources and an Intel ET2 quad gigabit NIC. Nothing really troubles it as you'd expect.
However for this to exhibit these problems on both a vodafone unlimited max sim and the three sim it can only be two things in my view:

1) poor throughput at the mast (the vodafone mast is in the same location as the three one so maybe its shares the same backbone connection?)

2) the b535 itself

Even with 1 large download going via this lte connection, be that vodafone or three my pfsense box is reporting latency times of 1100-1800ms. Ive had to adjust the settings so it doesn't shut that WAN interface down as it usually will do that if latency becomes too high.
Even if i set up some traffic shaping it doesnt have any bearing on this latency.
Dont really fancy chucking more money at a new router as it may not cure the issue
 

Gandi69

Regular Member
speeds vary 11 to 35 down, 25-30 up though consistently. Roughly 45-70ms pings. That is unless you are downloading something, then just about a trickle and ping times of 1000+.

mast is eNB ID 3494



ive messaged three on their live chat thing apparently the signal "is not as strong as they'd like it" in my area. Signal "strength" seems fine to me, its probably some issue with the backbone to their network at their tower id hazard a guess at? thats the only tower I can connect to from here unless i switch to 3g but thats very poor too


Vodafone doesnt show up on cell mapper but the when i use that same the eNB id is 368 which makes me think its the same place as the o2 mast? once again in the same location as the three one.

 

kommando828

ULTIMATE Member
How can these routers cope with heavy use if someone doing a simple download of large files can effectively drop performance of the connection into unusable territory?
Have you looked at the number of sessions/connections the download uses, I can set off a P2P download that uses loads of sessions but little download speed and the rest of the network dies but a single session download will allow other users to continue, unaware its going on.
 

Buggerlugz

ULTIMATE Member
Kommando, have you noticed how few connections with P2P you can get at once before the download speed plummets? I think mine tops out at 150 connections, then starts slowing.
 

kommando828

ULTIMATE Member
I will check tomorrow how many sessions I get but my P2P does not slow until near completion when the number of sessions drop. It's the rest of the network that suffers.
 

Gandi69

Regular Member
Just out of interest I went and tried this somewhere else (my work office) as I need to pop up there to drop something off. Took the b311 on a smarty sim with me - the same thing happens. Ping times rise significantly when you download files.
 
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