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Bartman

Guest
I know this debate has gone on before, but what gives ISPs the right to say things like

'and provides unlimited data usage'

Which is in the news article where armiska are saying they can provide 'affordable' broadband for people.

As in the debate that went on before, you are able (only in law) to hide behind the Fair useage policy. I think this is disgusting, in a peice of advertising saying that it will be providing unlimited data useage not even to say its subject to the FUP.

Again I remain annoyed at your persistant way of saying its unlimited when it isnt. It maybe you have a huge limit on what data amount it is, but that is nowhere the same as unlimited.


Link http://www.ispreview.co.uk/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?id=EpyVZpEyykaDPEHJyu

I know other ISPs do it also, but as this is a two way sat system with large costs (even though they say its affordable for everybody???) so its crucial that they make sure the person knows what they are getting. Im sure someone will argue that it references the FUP on the webiste, but why not include it in the advertising so people know what they are getting?

You have persistant compliants from sat providers about 'abusers' who download too much, but they are only abusers if they know what that limit is in the first place.
 

Bartman

Guest
Cant be, otherwise if they get a few heavy users on its gonna really mess up their systems.

If it is unlimited then I will be very suprised.
 

Mark.J

Administrator
Staff member
ISPreview Team
I would describe unlimited usage as the maximum 'average' speed of a service multiplied by the time between billing periods, such as a month.

In other words, the theoretical maximum you could download if the transfer was constant at the average speed for a whole month.

Satellite ISPs are not designed to keep up with such usage, thus you’d either end up with a poor service or imposed restrictions – the latter would not be an unlimited service.

Even if it’s TRUE unlimited, that's not to say the ISP wouldn't pull the old "change the service rules later" trick. Still, it's not for us to say, only Aramiska can respond to your concerns.
 
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Big Sime

Casual Member
Arc 2000+

Well their website (which has been modified now) shows this statement: -


"The ARC 2000+ service from Aramiska offers rural communities the ability to have a broadband connection regardless of location.
Using Aramiska’s two-way high-speed satellite broadband connection, the new service can be installed within 30 days, and provides unlimited data usage; no limit on the number of PCs connected and enhanced performance characteristics".


At the end of the day, if you live in the back of beyond and you have no hope of getting Broadband, who ya gonna call ?

It ain't gonna be BT
 

Bartman

Guest
Aint got a problem with them suppling people with broadband, just misadvertising their products.

I think a little 'unsuitable for gaming' bit wouldnt go amiss in there either.:shrug:
 

Satellite Stan

Pro Member
New package

Gentlemen,

Yes we do make use of a fair user policy, during business hours which is based on 10 times the average of the network during any given month, after 8.00pm and before 8.00am bandwidth is not capped.

Our New package arc 2000+ is uncapped we own transponders on the Satellite so we can allocate certain sectors for Heavy users without it affecting our network.

As for affordablity our product is affordable for all business's as in most cases Govt funding can be sort to bridge the gap, Remebering that we offer a fully managed service and not Just the connection you find at many Isp's.

Bartman, we do not support gaming, But i would like to point out that we offer to Business's and not consumer and most business's dont play online games.

Happy broadband


Stan
 

Fudskie

Pro Member
I would like to add to this:


This ARC 2000+ package is unltd thus the cost. Yes you as a home user may think it is not cheap but believe me if you were on ISDN 24 x 7 with the added cost of an ISP, web hosting, local mail server to inc the OS-license & maint to include a virus scanner & the update & management of the firewall as well as the added cost of the admin guy time to keep this all going 24 x 7 then yes it is affordable. If you add all these hidden costs that people forget to take in then most of our business users see it as to quote " a no brainer" then i can not argue. IT IS NOT a home user £30 a month connection then nor is business ADSL & if any one thinks this then when your ISP emails you to ask why your traffic seems a little high for a single user & bumps you to a higher package then you find out what business ADSL costs PLUS VAT & the router etc.
The package from us for the 2000+ is in my opinion a first for a contended ISP conecton. yes the contention is now lower than the ARC 2000 (see web site) thus giving more capacity to the users. The idea is to take one of these units & say WIFI it out to many users for a lower cost. This has & is happening a lot in Scotland thus the home user is paying between 20 - 30 pounds a month for a contended 2MB service & getting a local service provider in the making to help when they require it. This is a big step for an ISP to allow people to re-sell at this level. Lets not forget this is not a leased line costing £20,000 a year but very close in its capacity for a much lower cost. I personally think Aramiska has taken a huge step forward in trying to help the remote home user in getting a decent connection as well as making it affordable. People always will find something to pick up on & moan about but HEY a least we are moving in the right direction. How about a little respect i do not see OTHER isp`s trying anything other than well if you can get it fine but hey if not SORRY......at least we are trying to address these issues in the UK & at the momment we are - have always been a business ISP so this market is new to us & maybe one we dont need but as per normal we are taking on peoples ideas & implementing them when our business model allows.
 

keithcalder

ULTIMATE Member
Aha but thats the thingy you see , some folks may take your package and hope they can download heeps. Are you advertising it as a business only package or are you saying it isn't for the home user then?
 

Fudskie

Pro Member
It is a COMMUNITY Backhaul service as well as a high user package that does not wish to be capped.

Normal enviroment:
the dish supplies the community as an ISP who then locally reconnects to the local village using wireless or similar technologies & manages it locally & charges people between 20 - 30 pounds a month for the service.
SIMPLE.

but as it is a lower contention service with NO caps then some people may wish to purchase it for there own services. It was mainly for the community service thus its name.....but if someone wishes to use it privatley then hey no issue.

Aha but thats the thingy you see , some folks may take your package and hope they can download heeps.

YES YOU CAN....thats the idea, i know its hard for people to take in that an ISP is going to allow you unlimited use but hey wow its here at last!!! no more moaning about limits isnt it fantastic !! some one actually did it cool........SO please STOP this petty behaviour & get on with it. If you want it then GO GET IT if you are lucky enough to have the money for yourself then cool order it. If not then go see your community & DO SOMETHING LOCAL get this implemented & get on the broadband wagon!!!

Godd luck & enjoy.
 
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Web Buddy

Guest
Well they are now saying the Service is Limited, what a suprise. So Elmer was correct their advertising is misleading in fact probably more then misleading

Quote "Yes we do make use of a fair user policy, during business hours which is based on 10 times the average of the network during any given month, after 8.00pm and before 8.00am bandwidth is not capped."

So this Package which is sold as a Business Package is Cappped during Business Hours but is uncapped outside Business hours.

Now if any one can work out how much the can download without breaking the rule above let me know.

I think you will have to be a genius to know what the limit is.

Write your ansers on the back of a postcard.

No wonder ISP's have a bad reputation.


The limit should also be in the Contract. They should also spell out exactly what the limit is. How much data can be transferred withing a given period. What they put in their so called AUP tell you nothing at all.
 

Fudskie

Pro Member
web site content:

The ARC 2000+ service from Aramiska offers rural communities the ability to have a broadband connection regardless of location.
Using Aramiska’s two-way high-speed satellite broadband connection, the new service can be installed within 30 days, and provides unlimited data usage; no limit on the number of PCs connected and enhanced performance characteristics.

Based on Aramiska’s managed satellite broadband service for business, the ARC 2000+ package will allow users to have a broadband connection to the Internet via a centrally located 75cm satellite dish. The central satellite antenna could be based in a village hall or community meeting point and users can then be connected through any fixed or wireless technology including ‘wi-fi’. Community organisations could use a number of wireless connections to bounce two-way signals off receivers to individual users even if they are some miles away from community centre.

The ARC 2000+ community package provides up to 2,048 Kbps downstream and 512 Kbps upstream data transmission speeds. The contention ratio of data transfer on the ARC 2000+ community package is four to one on the downstream and two to one on the upstream in comparison to a fifty to one ratio on a normal ADSL connection. The new service, available today, enables communities to bypass the need for lengthy campaigning to get broadband, and offers a fully managed alternative to an ADSL connection.

The service cost 5,000 pounds in the first year, and 4,500 pounds the next years. This amount includes installation, unlimited usage for 12 months and 24 hours customer support.

Please contact Aramiska on 0808 100 3555 (UK only) or an Aramiska partner for more information.
 

Fudskie

Pro Member
the fair usuage policy is for our NORMAL services.

I guess you mis understood Stan`s post. He mentions the fair usuage policy & what it is then he goes on to mention the new ARC 2000+ service & the fact it is not under any fair usuage policy or any caps.

So i hope that clears that up, must be his Kiwi typo he uses ;) eh Stan.
 
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Kits

Super Moderator
Staff member
ISPreview Team
Hello Fudskie

Perhaps Aramiska could send an email press release to us so we can post it in the news section helping our members to see its a new package and nothing to do with the normal business one.

Regards
Kitty
 
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evs67uk

ISP Rep
Just a quick post to clear up any confussion.
Aramiska's new ARC2000+ package is aimed at the rural community, heavy user business or hotspot areas such as airports that provide wireless connectivity to commuters.
The package has a contention of 4/1 down & 2/1 up.
The price is £5000 for the first year including install.
And yes it is an unlimited download package....
If 20 users took the service in a community & paid a very reasonable £25 per month that would earn the community £6000 in the first year.
I think that £25 a month for this level of package & service offers excellent value for money.
I am sure that someone will pick fault with it but as Fudskie has said, I don't see too many other ISP's offering this level of support or investment in research & development.
Many thanks to the tech & marketing guys within the company..
 

Kits

Super Moderator
Staff member
ISPreview Team
Fudskie said:
i will of course bow to your wisdom & get this organised.

Hope you are well.
Thank you Mark it just might clear a few things up.

Kitty
 

Bartman

Guest
With reguards to it being 'petty' posts, thats untrue. I suggest you look at my original post and rethink that.

I am in no way critisising any effort to bring broadband to communities without adsl.

A few things to note from points raised by the many Armiska reps.

Gaming, I agree why would business users want to game online? But the advertising said about bringing broadband to the community, therefore I automatically assumed it was the average Joe being able to get it. Besides that, there are other things which rely on lag/ping whatever it is, which some businesses may need.

I think there is confusment here, that being the reason why Kitty asked for a news post. But from what I can gather, it does have a cap 'at business times'. Which isnt mentioned, therefore misleading.

Also, I dont really see how its going to be high speed if its just a 2MB connection (and 512 upload), how can 20 users use it in your example? Before it says its a 4/1 contention? Perhaps Im getting things arse backwards here.

If we could just know what the simple things are for getting a community connected, like it said in the news release.

Going by the data posted, and sorry if I get this wrong as I dont want to go through all those long posts again, it looks something like this:

A two way sat system installed somewhere in a village, costing £5000 for the first year.

Whoever pays for it is then allowed to split it how they feel, be it to businesses or the community (which I presume to be people like you and me).

But, its only a 2 MB connection, so that would mean you can only get 4 people on it if you go by the usual broadband connection speed of 512k. If you use contention on a 2 MB line, people suffer real quick if others are using it.

So either these 4 people pay £1250 a year (about £104 a month) or its very heavily contended. Which makes it seem not like broadband, as you can gurantee some are going to use it a lot.

And is it this package that would be used for the community the one with the business time cap on it?

Answers to this would be appriciated. I am not trying to stir things up, as I have said before Im tired of sat ISPs taking the mickey with misleading advertising.
 

Fudskie

Pro Member
No it does not have the business hours cap you are stating.
It doesnt work like the way you think 2MB/ 4 = 512Kbps connections is logical but not reality.

Its hard to work out to be honest but an office with 30 people on a 2MB link has no issues i mean i have seen 30-40 people on 256Kbps leased lines no issues.

Its the who is doing what at the same time syndrome ie in Scotland we have 47 people on the standard 8:1 2MB link with no issues being reported by the users or the ISP (if you like) locally. It is an un known quantity but in 6 months of testing this out we have had no issues in this field. (yep been tested for this long) We are lowering the contention to give more capacity to the local users so for instance if you had a 1:1 leased line with 30 people on it the contention would be 30:1 still better than ADSL but no one argues that one at 50:1 but in reality you would think Hmm 2MB / 30 = not a lot but again its the who is doing what question again & in how the local admin has set it up with maybe some sort of traffic shaping.

I hope this helps.
 

Teasy

Top Member
From the "Aramiska Affordable Satellite Access" press released posted on ISP Review:

The contention ratio of data transfer on the ARC 2000+ community package is four to one on the downstream and two to one on the upstream in comparison to a fifty to one ratio on a normal ADSL connection
I find that to be in very bad taste.. Claiming a 4:1 contention vs 50:1 for home ADSL. There's so much wrong with that I barely know where to begin.

The 4:1 contention is for the 2mb base connection. So that contention is in place before the connection is shared out to its users. So if you have 20 people on each 2mbit connection (as a Aramiska rep mentioned earlier) then that is effectively 80:1 contention for those users.

Secondly there is quite a large difference between having 50:1 on a 150mbit+ telephone exchange and 80:1 on a 2mbit satellite connection. I mean yeah the 50:1 is theoretically per 2mbit even with ADSL. But you have so much bandwidth overall that its much more flexible as far as contention is concerned then it is with a single 2mbit connection. I mean imagine actually having 50 users on a single 2mbit connection? Would it give the sort of speed ADSL gives?... no definitely not.

I'm not trying to say that this service can't work. I'm not trying to devalue what could be a good service. I just think its totally misleading to compare the contention of the base connection of 4:1 with a user contention number of 50:1 for ADSL. If your going to compare you'd have to compare the 4:1 contention with the contention of the telephone exchange's backhaul.. which is 1:1
 
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