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BBC NEWS: UK government responds on Phorm.

The government has outlined how a controversial online ad system can be rolled out in the UK.

In response to EU questions about its legality, it said that it was happy Phorm conformed to EU data laws.

But any future deployments of the system must be done with consent and make it easy for people to opt out.

SEE HERE:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7619297.stm
 
Oh FFS!

  1. So, UK Govt - were the trials illegal or not, given there was no notification to users, let alone opt-in or out? If they were - under what law?
  2. If you opt out, does the ISO have tio ensure your data does not go to Phorm, irrespective of whether you recieve their ads?
  3. IS it opt-in or opt-out?
  4. Who will write the description of the service - cos I don't think BT or Pharm will give a balnced description!
 
Just do what many are saying request your MAC key and always keep it ready to move I know of about 12 that have requested macs another 5 that are within 3 months from end of contract that are all refusing to renew early even though BT have already phoned them to try and arrange a new one.
 
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lm unsure moving to another ISP will help, is BT eventually gains permission for the system to go ahead that opens up a whole new ball game, both Virgin and TalkTalk will go ahead with their planned implementation.. and it wont just stop there, previous ISPs who originally said they wouldnt implement the system will change their minds and contradict all their original statements by taking up the system too!!

while the system is considered illegal or should l say "a grey area" ISPs wont cause themselves issues until they know they can legally implement such a system.. because lefts face it the current situation is "we all know it was against the law, the ICO have already stated it should have been opt in" however the current opt in method doesnt work cookies can be forged in which case its not adequate but since we are talking government here they will play dumb because they have no idea about the technology.

all in all back on to my point, if it becomes legal and the government allows it then all ISPs are going to sign up for their cut, and the ISPs that try to deny this if any ISPs they reply to this thread, will get ignored by myself at least... because lets face it if it becomes legal its a excellent possibility for revenue not only are you making money on ADSL you are also making money out of clicks.. and in a business perspective the more money you make the better.
 
lm unsure moving to another ISP will help, is BT eventually gains permission for the system to go ahead that opens up a whole new ball game, both Virgin and TalkTalk will go ahead with their planned implementation.. and it wont just stop there, previous ISPs who originally said they wouldnt implement the system will change their minds and contradict all their original statements by taking up the system too!!

Not necessarily - I agree that Virgin and TalkTalk would likely go ahead, as will many others, but that doesn't mean all of them will - especially if enough of a fuss is kicked up about it.

After all, a smaller ISP could use a lack of Phorm as a major selling point to attract all those people kicking up a fuss - they could quickly and easily attract lots of users from the bigger ISPs.

Alternatively, someone like BT to just use a sub-brand (plusNet, for example) to see BB access without Phorm - but make up the difference by charging an extra £1 or £2 per month.

If nthere is enough of a market for an ISP without Phorm, someone with try to satisfy that market - the only question is who, and how?
 
Entanet supplied ISPs will be phorm free since Entanet themselves are not hapy with this and since they generaly supply businesses with internet not likely to implement this upsetting their own customers. Also Zen are not heading dfown this route, Fast.co.uk is another that has said they will not implement this.

Remember if your contract is with an ISP that is against phorm BT cannot adopt phorm on the network. It is BT retail that is implementing Phorm not BT wholesale.
 
if it becomes legal and the government allows it then all ISPs are going to sign up for their cut, and the ISPs that try to deny this if any ISPs they reply to this thread, will get ignored by myself at least... because lets face it if it becomes legal its a excellent possibility for revenue not only are you making money on ADSL you are also making money out of clicks.. and in a business perspective the more money you make the better.

The largest ISPs that market on price may do, although I suspect the ones that aren't already commited to Phorm would be more likely to adopt a system from one of the companies that hasn't (as yet) attracted significant negative publicity.

Some of the smaller ISP already charge more for quality support and a reliable non-congested connection and are likely to regard not spying on their customer's browsing as part of their value added service - the marketing surveys that have been published so far indicate that many people will leave their ISP if it introduces any of these systems, which suggests there will be no shortage of potential customers, although not all of them will be willing to pay the extra cost.

Just looking at the front page of this site, you have an ISP marketting itself as "Phorm free"

adpeeps.php


And another says it wont use Phorm on the front page of its site:-
http://www.fast.co.uk/
 
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however if there is money to be made then why not? if its legal loss of customers doesnt mean jack if you have many gullible users..

l get what you are all saying but all those statements are purely for PR if phorm eventually gets the go ahead l see many ISPs thinking the loss of a few knowledgeable customers far outweighs the gullible customers who will make them money hand over foot.. and even if they dont originally they will have to eventually when the need far outweighs the capacity of their networks, l dont think anyone even an ISP could convince me otherwise, as business opportunity is an opportunity, they maybe there to provide us with a service but where theres money to be made you take the opportunity.
 
Another point is that a smaller ISP won't make much money from targetted advertising, and therefore couldn't afford to risk alienating too many users by going down the Phorn route.

As I said before - if there is a big enough demand for Phorm-free Internet access, someone will try to satisfy that demnand
 
this reminds me of the Fast4 fiasco... regardless of what happens now eventually they will step in with phorm, if customers flock away from the larger ones (unlikely if they are the gullible types who believe Phorms cock and bull story about being a phishing prevention system etc) eventually smaller networks are going to get borked with new users and eventually there will need to be schemes in place to create more revenue in order to add network capacity, its gunna happen because its easy money only need the go ahead before they start flocking... business isnt always ethical the government is proof of that, they say one thing and do another when it suits them!
 
Farce4's competed on cost, not quality, their service always was unsustainable, they didn't charge enough to pay their "wholesale" provider for sufficient capacity to cater for the usage levels of the customers they sort to attract. This only works while a visp can find other wholesalers willing to take them on at the right price when their current wholesaler runs out of spare capacity and has to cap/ throttle and rasie prices to protect their other customer's services.

ISPs that are solely competing on price or running at a loss are likely candidates for phorming their customers. Quality ISPs can charge more because they aim to sell their customers the service they want.
 
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the point lm trying to make is altho they might say they wont use phorm now, if the government legalise them then it wont stop other isps joining the bandwagon.. and those that didnt want to be a part of it may change their minds.. running a business is all about making money while supplying the content ppl want.. and from my experience its not uncommon for them to junkmail you after with things you might want.
 
the point lm trying to make is altho they might say they wont use phorm now, if the government legalise them then it wont stop other isps joining the bandwagon.. and those that didnt want to be a part of it may change their minds.. running a business is all about making money while supplying the content ppl want.. and from my experience its not uncommon for them to junkmail you after with things you might want.

The smaller ISPs that don't sell too cheap do make a profit it is al those that try to tie you into 12month contracts under selling the product that seem to be riding the ridge on profit..
 
Excellent !

The government has outlined how a controversial online ad system can be rolled out in the UK.

In response to EU questions about its legality, it said that it was happy Phorm conformed to EU data laws.

But any future deployments of the system must be done with consent and make it easy for people to opt out.

SEE HERE:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7619297.stm
Well done to the British Government, standing up to the EU Bureaucracy in this way, and taking their time in doing it.
 
Well done to the British Government, standing up to the EU Bureaucracy in this way, and taking their time in doing it.
Yes notice those who are not british living and posting from the UK enjoying the wording but still has to fallinside the rules which is.

Informed consent from both parties so website owners not giving consent to be phormed wouls still make it illegal.

the British government might be out of power before this goes live and the new ones in could still throw this out
 
the British government might be out of power before this goes live and the new ones in could still throw this out

I suspect that this isn't going to be top of the agenda, whoever is in office! Between the credit crunch, inflation, Iraq etc they wil have other things to deal with first.
 
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The smaller ISPs that don't sell too cheap do make a profit it is al those that try to tie you into 12month contracts under selling the product that seem to be riding the ridge on profit..
profit is pofit no matter how you get it.. as long as its legal...

in any case l really do hope your right, but when money is concerned usually those in charge will follow its sent.. l'll be happy and somewhat amazed if lm proved wrong but at this moment in time lm unsure that l will be considering the possible amounts of revenue that could be gained at our expense.
 
profit is pofit no matter how you get it.. as long as its legal...

As far as I know there is nothing illegal about Tiscali's service, but there still seem to be plenty of ISPs providing a better service despite the additonal cost, because that's what their customers want and are prepared to pay for.

BT was expected to make about £20 per year per opted in customer, Nebuad who actually had a working service was apparently a minimum of $30 per opted-in customer pper year. While these sums will be significant to ISPs, a couple of pound a month won't be that significant to most people that value their privacy - so it is reasonable to expect some ISPs will continue to offer a phorm free service as long as that is what some customers want.
 
Well done to the British Government, standing up to the EU Bureaucracy in this way, and taking their time in doing it.

Yep, well done our Goverment for delaying BT's roll-out of Phorm for an extra month and a half, and lets hope they've really peed off the EU commission enough for them to look even less favourably on BT and Phorm and the governments inaction over the trials.
 
As far as I know there is nothing illegal about Tiscali's service, but there still seem to be plenty of ISPs providing a better service despite the additonal cost, because that's what their customers want and are prepared to pay for.

BT was expected to make about £20 per year per opted in customer, Nebuad who actually had a working service was apparently a minimum of $30 per opted-in customer pper year. While these sums will be significant to ISPs, a couple of pound a month won't be that significant to most people that value their privacy - so it is reasonable to expect some ISPs will continue to offer a phorm free service as long as that is what some customers want.

now if you only have 100 or so users then yeah it wouldnt be pratical but lets say they made 20 off each customer a year and the isp has 1000 users thats still 20000 more than you had in your pocket at the beginning of the year
 
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