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BT Adsl dropsout when raining 26 engineers later in deadlock.

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
Hello all,

As thread title suggests I've had a lot of grief and Openreach visits in the past 12 months.

I've also heard it all now from BT customer services. Everything from the truth to barefaced lies.

It will take me a while to write the whole thing up.

In brief after 130 hours of waiting in, over 100 hours on phone to BT and having my landlords dig in 273M (yes 1/4Km+) of 56 duct I am in deadlock with BT.

My line drops every time it rains. It used to do it when windy as well. Bad drop wire/joint in pole capping.

My line after 12 months now seams stable but it has not rained since underground cable replaced.

Oh I'm on ADSL2+ 2.5 down 0.4 up. Can't get Service Line Type SLT raised above 8000 so upstream 'capped' at 445 but syncs at 750-850. But that's another thread all of it's own.

My question is. After 12 months of case missmanagement hell. Who is responsible for compensating me for my time some 300 hours+ Openreach or BT?

BT seam to think Openreach hence deadlock.

Any of you wise owls seen out like this before?

FYI My landlords are seeking compensation separately from Openreach for dig work done to replace 'faulty' now condemned underground cable.

I the tenant, customer and account holder seam to have been left out of the compensation loop!

So BT or Openreach? I'll post more detail later. Any questions just ask. Currently waiting for rain!
 

Mark.J

Administrator
Staff member
ISPreview Team
Your contract is with BT, so that's who you talk with, although I'm assuming you're a residential customer and so aren't protected by a Service Level Agreement like more expensive business packages? In that situation compensation may be something best pursued by keeping your complaint open for 8 weeks and then taking it to an ADR complaints handler.


A new system of automatic compensation has also just been introduced, but this only applies to outages that last longer than a couple of days. Missed appointments and delayed repairs are also covered. But this system only started at the end of March 2019 and so you probably won't have any ability to benefit, unless the problems have re-occurred since then.

 

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
Thanks for your advice. An hour later deadlock man phoned. I am in negotiations with my ISP BT.



Not looking good for 300+ hours of my time <£0.42 per hour or aprx £1.20 per hour in 'services' over 18 months of new contract. This will be canceled with cancellation charge applied, they won't quote cancellation charge till order is live!, if FTTP is installed. Call back booked for 25/04/19. We will see.



If FTTP is installed within 4 months, based on £95 cancelation fee, I will owe them money to change to FTTP! If FTTP is installed BT/Openreach has no fault problems any more and I get penalised.



Anyway rain due tomorrow see how it holds up. Since all work done to line went of last time it drizzled! As I said before not looking good.



Will likely reject offer and go to ADR any advice about dealing with ADR?
 

mikep

Member
Sorry to hear your saga. It can be a nightmare.....

Had dropout and extreme crosstalk in the wet for some while. After a particularly bad bout, Openreach finally found the water-filled connection box. With a "chocolate block"-style connector in it !!! Once it was fixed, my ISP (IDnet) took the interleave off the line. Happy days, RTT halved :)

Our local Openreach techs (at least the ones that have visited us) are very friendly and committed. Tea and biccies probably help.
 

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
June 2018 I escalate complaint and case management get involved and order a broadband boost.
Eng 6 and 7 turn up do 15minute test. Spend 1 1/2 hours talking the job up and leave.
I get an appointment 2 weeks Thursday its canceled no day 0.9 drop wire available.

Rescheduled for Saturday. No show cherry picker not available.

Finally on Thursday Eng 8 and 9 turn up with cherry picker. They forgot the cable. 3/4 hours later eng 10 turns up with cable. After another 1/2 hour of talking the job up they, one at a time, they finaly get on with the job. Replacing all spans of drop wire between my house and DP with 0.9mm2 single pair. This reduced the number of joints between DP and house from 14 to 2! They also used my secatares to cut the dropwire to length!

During the talk up eng 8 let slip he was the one who fixed my bridge tap even though he did not know what a bridge tap was. He said it was in the joint behind capping between dropwire and underground cable at pole 14b. He described this as one of the most complicated repairs he had performed in a long time. I pointed out it's only a 2pair cable and out of the 7 different ways you can wire it only 2 are 'wrong' the other 4 won't make a difference to adsl or phone and 1 is correct.

After less than an hours actual work my broadband boost was complete. A whopping 2.9dl/0.4up!

All of the specialist broadband engineers have been great, Java and cake always served.

I find the low level line testers, I've never seen the same one twice and I've seen alot of them in past 12 months, are the ones who treat you like you have no clue what you're talking about and then try to tell you something that is blatantly untrue or technically incorrect!

I have an old phone plugged in, drives the Mrs. mad, that goes tinkle tinkle every time someone tests my line. This 1. Predicts arrival of Openreach generaly. 2. Primes Openreach engineer with enough info he knows he's wasting his/her time and 3. Is handy because when you book an engineer that does not come to the house and you hear tinkle tinkle 20 mins or so later this is an almost 100% certainty that engineer appointment has been canceled. It's happened whilst on mobile to BT they book tinkle tinkle they check engineer canceled.

The world is full of the good/bad/ugly people. I don't expect Openreach be any different. Same goes for BT complains handlers though more bad than good.

Another example, I have many.

I complain about speed again. Level 1 tells me it's my fault. Your house wiring is faulty. I don't have any. Oh well you need to permanently wire everything to make full use of your, and I quote, 'your AWESOME download speed'. I don't want wires running off my window sill. Oh you can't have your router on a window sill. As I am putting it on the floor she says It can't go on the floor it has to have its own 'special' table! Back to the time of telephone tables. One cardboard box and wire later she was satisfied. She also could not answer my question Why is my master socket on the window sill then? /s Awesome 2Mb download! I could swear I was being set up for a £95 repair bill. The disappointment in her voice when at the end I told her, for the second time, I have no internal wiring. On commission?


OK Rant over.
 

Kits

Super Moderator
Staff member
ISPreview Team

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
FTTP.jpg
Kits, did check just in case. Thanks

In January I received a desktop quote for CFP for 3 properties £18,000.

Last week irecived a firm quote based on survey and the comunity offering to trench 0.5km of cable and do extensive tree work some real big ones. We estimated we would save Openreach £10-15K. The revised quote came back at +£20,000 taking into account the work we were prepared to do! We laughed went to the pub and forgot about it.
 

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
See also Page 7 on

 

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
From community.BT where I have to do my ISP communicating thing.
So......
As the shadow of engineer 27 undarkens my door step and 60meters of next doors' drop wire makes it to the big scrap yard in the sky.
My neighbor, still sat on his backside, is now laughing like a drain.
Four inch split in cable, guts hanging out rammed into a tree now with no bark on it.
It's been like that for at least 12 Months.
A problem so simple a school child if asked would have pointed and said 'Well there's your problem'.
But no the neighbor having taken the BT schilling get his you can't complain about the internet fixed twice within a month whilst still accepting the BT schilling.
Openrach/BT claiming' We've never heard of a neighboring customers fault affect another customer. First time in 14 years I've seen this says No. 27'.
My internet may or may not be finally fixed after 12 months and 26 + engineers despite:-
100+ hours waiting in.
100+ hours on the phone.
and rapidly approaching 100+ hours on this(BT) forum.
BT have offered me in way of compensation a shilling and a, to be paid by me, a £5 a month subscription to watch the AMC channel only supplied by the internet that is too slow for tv to be ordered! and no complaining. Am I stupid?
The computer won't let them give me Entertainment pack for £7.50. As long as I remember to only watch/record one channel at a time, and don't complain, it would have been fine.
But oh no the computer say no and off to ADR. I thought till I received this. No deadlock letter then. Resolved! Ha.!
We've closed your complaint
Hello Mr Blunt,
Thanks for getting in touch with us recently. We're pleased we could help.
We've now closed your complaint, reference VOL013-XXXXXXXXXXXX.
If you need to talk more about your complaint, or you're not happy with how we dealt with it, please call us on 0800 800 150 (it's a free number).
For more information about the process we followed, you can read our code of practice at bt.com/complaintscode
Thanks,
Customer care team
What? No Deadlock letter and GDPR personal information as you promised?
So......
I now hope that the affair my and my neighbors modems have been having over the past 12months is finally over.
All this going up and down in unison, we have logs, is finally over I pray.
If only they had reproduce and given us multiple bonded ADSLs. That we could cope with.

TBC
 

Attachments

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
So......Finally getting back on point.

Sync time now 2 Days 23 Hours 30 Minutes aprx I have no internet connection?

15:55:33, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 connectivity to (pbthdm.bt.mo) has been closed

15:55:31, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 connectivity to (pbthdm.bt.mo) has been initiated

15:55:31, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 receiving InformResponse message

15:55:30, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 event found : 4 VALUE CHANGE

15:55:29, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 sending Inform message

15:55:28, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 event found : 4 VALUE CHANGE

15:55:26, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 sending Inform message

15:55:24, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 creating new session with ACS

15:53:26, 30 Apr.,:WAN: SENSING AUTO ADSL

15:53:22, 30 Apr.,ppp1Smiley TonguePP: PPP INFO 81.139.57.100,81.139.56.100

15:53:16, 30 Apr.,ppp1Smiley TonguePP: PPP INFO

15:53:09, 30 Apr.,pppSmiley TonguePP: IPCP_NAK

15:53:09, 30 Apr.,pppSmiley TonguePP: CHAP_SUCCESS

15:53:09, 30 Apr.,pppSmiley TonguePP: CHAP_RESPONSE

15:53:09, 30 Apr.,pppSmiley TonguePP: LCP_REQUEST

15:53:09, 30 Apr.,pppSmiley TonguePP: LCP_GOOD_ACK

15:53:06, 30 Apr.,:Connection has been terminated: remote station is not answering to LCP Echo requests.

15:53:02, 30 Apr.,:Connection to the Internet has been terminated.(Reboot,Reconfiguration,forced termination)

15:53:01, 30 Apr.,ppp1:Connection to the Internet has been terminated.(Reboot,Reconfiguration,forced termination)

15:37:10, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

15:37:10, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

Sync time now 2 Days 23 Hours 32 Minutes I have an internet connection again?

So.....

Ignoring that. After 302039 seconds or 3.49582176 days of sync DLM kicked in!

04:49:12, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 connectivity to (pbthdm.bt.mo) has been closed

04:49:09, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 connectivity to (pbthdm.bt.mo) has been initiated

04:49:09, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 receiving InformResponse message

04:49:08, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 event found : 4 VALUE CHANGE

04:49:07, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 sending Inform message

04:49:06, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 event found : 4 VALUE CHANGE

04:49:05, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 sending Inform message

04:49:02, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 creating new session with ACS

04:47:37, 01 May.,ppp1Smiley TonguePP: PPP INFO 81.139.57.100,81.139.56.100

04:47:36, 01 May.,:WAN: SENSING AUTO ADSL

04:47:36, 01 May.,ppp1Smiley TonguePP: PPP INFO

04:47:31, 01 May.,pppSmiley TonguePP: IPCP_NAK

04:47:31, 01 May.,pppSmiley TonguePP: CHAP_SUCCESS

04:47:31, 01 May.,pppSmiley TonguePP: CHAP_RESPONSE

04:47:31, 01 May.,pppSmiley TonguePP: LCP_REQUEST

04:47:29, 01 May.,pppSmiley TonguePP: LCP_GOOD_ACK

04:47:22, 01 May.,atm0.35:connection ATM_TV connected

04:47:22, 01 May.,atm0.38:connection ATM_DATA connected

04:47:22, 01 May.,dsl:ADSL link Up: Down Rate=3976Kbps, Up Rate=840Kbps, SNR Margin Down=6.30dB, SNR Margin Up=3.20dB

04:46:52, 01 May.,:connection ATM_DATA disconnected.[ERROR_USER_DISCONNECT]

04:46:52, 01 May.,:Connection to the Internet has been terminated.(Reboot,Reconfiguration,forced termination)

04:46:43, 01 May.,ppp1:Connection to the Internet has been terminated.(Reboot,Reconfiguration,forced termination)

04:46:40, 01 May.,:connection ATM_TV disconnected.[ERROR_USER_DISCONNECT]

04:46:34, 01 May.,dsl:ADSL Link Down: duration was 302039 seconds

03:48:24, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

03:48:24, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

02:45:38, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

02:45:38, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

02:18:10, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

02:18:10, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

00:34:27, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

00:34:27, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

00:20:37, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

00:20:37, 01 May.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

23:00:58, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

23:00:58, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

22:52:05, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

22:52:05, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

21:51:16, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

21:51:16, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

19:23:18, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

19:23:17, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

19:15:29, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

19:15:29, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

17:32:02, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

17:32:02, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

17:21:23, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

17:21:23, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

16:25:40, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

16:25:40, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

16:24:29, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest Failed

16:24:29, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 ConnectionRequest: processing request from ACS

15:55:33, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 connectivity to (pbthdm.bt.mo) has been closed

15:55:31, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 connectivity to (pbthdm.bt.mo) has been initiated

15:55:31, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 receiving InformResponse message

15:55:30, 30 Apr.,ppp1:TR69 event found : 4 VALUE CHANGE

Resulting in this. My best ever result in 12 Months. And a shiny 3dB SNR target.

How long that will last depends now on the DSLAM and not a BT/Openreach employee I hope.

What's with all the errors I don't know.

Note ping now actually on fast path not interleaved. A Hub 6A never lies / sarcasm.
SpeeDLM3db.jpg
 

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
So......

Has my issue been resolved?

Well as you may expect from me YES and NO.

YES. As long as if in the future my line is reset it remains DLM on with a 'floating' SNR target.

This will rely on local conditions remaining unpeculiar. Super great champion. It could be worse I could have won a speed boat.

Time will tell, or the Mods(at BT) could give some feedback maybe.

NO. The PPP dropouts that case management were meant to sort out from December, We have logs, are still happening.

So......

What happens next?

I don't know. My crystal ball is in my other pair of trousers.

But there are two things I can tell you.

1. I will keep this t(BT)hread updated with my DLM SNR and SYNC observations.

2. I will keep my PPP issue updated in its' appropriate (BT)thread.

I hope my now 300+ hours and 273 Meters of digging can be of help to others.

Please note the only reason I started this thread, not this one your reading now, was because I had done my research and I knew in advance a Mod and only a Mod could remove my upload cap.

Whilst taking no prisoners in this 15 day quest, 14 days on phone 1 day on here I thought.(Should stop thinking BT don't seam to like there customers to posses a brain, most inconvenient gets in the way of the techno babble.)

I do apologies to any non Mods who got caught in the cross fire.

The picture of James Blunt is there as way of a warning. I am, on occasion whether provoked or not, a secret fan of the aptly named Mr. Blunt.

I say it as I observe it, not see it, and I like things precise and clear not clouded by techno babble BS wrapped up with a dose of reading between the lines things that don't exist and I am not saying..

This may be perceived by some as me being a Thomas the tank fan. I assure you I most certainly am not. Well not today anyway.

So......

To be continued? Maybe. I hope not if PPP fault magically disappears. Pigs fully fed and ready to fly.

To be updated? YES. With good news I hope. I don't like to complain i'm lazy. /s

As for the bunting, it's back in the shed for the next 14 days, and I will update this then unless in the mean time it goes all Pete Tong.

Did I mention the word BLACKLISTED?


Toys back in pram(BT).
 

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
Thank you.

Yes. I use too much data.

I had a Three 4g hot spot but not suitable for many gigs a day. V expensive. Laggy also.

Thanks FTTP is the future much like garlic bread.

Getting there. See BT thread.
 

Jake4

Casual Member
Thank you.

Yes. I use too much data.

I had a Three 4g hot spot but not suitable for many gigs a day. V expensive. Laggy also.

Thanks FTTP is the future much like garlic bread.

Getting there. See BT thread.
I used 600gb this month with my 4g connection (Just on my PC alone), You can get a SIM contract with unlimited data for £20 a month & grab a 4g antenna router like the Mikrotik SXT LTE.
 

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
What's it like for watching football. Does latency keep up with action. I'm also half way up the wrong side of a mountain in Wales. There is a vodaphone, I think, mast 2 - 3 miles line of sight through mountain. Good EE OK ish O2 don't know about vodaphone.
 

AreYouHavingA_GIRAFFE

Regular Member
So..

Engineer 26 + 2 due tomorrow. 26 + 1 came last week to fix neighbors tree rub cross talking my connection to death.

Come to 'fix' PPP fault. Tea ,cake ,football then Ta ra. And repeat x 26 + 2 + 1
 

Captain_Cretin

ULTIMATE Member
What's it like for watching football. Does latency keep up with action. I'm also half way up the wrong side of a mountain in Wales. There is a vodaphone, I think, mast 2 - 3 miles line of sight through mountain. Good EE OK ish O2 don't know about vodaphone.
Recently experience on O2 is very large spikes of up to 3 1/2 seconds; no buffer is likely to cover that; however it may be local; MHDC area has had O2 issues for more than a decade. Prior to that, the latency range wasnt huge, so it should be able to keep up with a TV stream.
 
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