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BT and Pipex nightmare, please help

Ok please bare with me, might be a bit of a read, but here goes.

Had BT line for decades, line rental always with them. Had ADSL broadband with Pipex for about 6 years (pipex since bought by tiscali and then talktalk)

Everything had been absolutely fine up until sept 9th when BT decided it would be a good idea to cancel my phone account and stick next doors newly aquired phone account into my house.

Thus ensued the million phone calls to the BT Indian call centres trying to explain the situation tearing my hair out in the process.

Ok fast foward. After having a dead line for almost a month, Oct 6th I had line reactivated and Oct 11th I had my old phone number restored, hurrah!.

Then I noticed I was no longer getting an ADSL signal on my modem. Checked my modem at a neighbours house, modem and filter are fine.

Called Pipex support (again Indian call center, ugh!), and after the usual hair tearing procedure (double click internet explorer blah blah waste of time blah) I confirmed plugging modem into master phone socket still had no signal they arranged engineer, great!.

Last wednesday, talktalk engineer arrives armed with 1 modem and a mobile phone. Plugs it in and confirms what I already know. Calls BT to arrange one of their OpenReach engineers to take a look and fix. Told they'll call back later that day

...they dont, nothing happens, so I call BT myself, explain everything, they agree to send OpenReach engineer round reminding me if faults found in house I have to pay. No problem I know its the outside line.

So fast forward to today. 8am nice n nearly. BT engineer comes round, he checks with the exchange aaaaand... guess what...

There is no adsl hardware @ the exchange for my phone anymore... AT ALL, NADA. As far as their system is concerned I do not have any broadband whatsoever, the physical hardware simply isn't there. It must have been removed (presumably by BT, thanks BT real nice move there).

Anyways, so this BT engineer tells me I have two choices, I can either call pipex (talktalk) again, explain to them the problem and that they should actually know about this already, thus they have to call BT again and so it goes round in circles. OR, I switch to a new supplier.

He advised me that switching might actually be the better and quicker option.

Now here's my question coming up. When I asked the OpenReach engineer about whether I'd need to supply the new provider with a MAC number from pipex, he said no. Because there is no actual adsl hardware on the line, it would be considered new and thus would not be needed.

I would like to switch supplier. My question, do I find out and supply my new ISP the MAC number?, or do I pretend its a brand new order for the line (like the engineer said) and just make an order with a new ISP?


Given that it is the same telephone number and the same address, I'm 50/50 about this.

My concern if I dont supply the MAC. It'll take forever to migrate, months of heartache.

My concern if I DO supply the MAC. The MAC refers to an active connection that simply does not exist. Once migration is complete, far as the new ISP is concerned I will be connected, when in reality... i'm not, cause the hardware simply is not there.

What should I do, call Pipex for a MAC and give that to new ISP?, or... believe what the openreach engineer told me, forget the mac, just order a new broadband package from someone else and cancel the pipex.

Hope you made it to the end... and thanks for reading :)
 
Well there is the financial side also if you do not get them to cancel properly with talktalk you could have months of trouble plus heartache trying to stop them taking money.

To start a new connection will cost activation fee unless you can get BT to cover this cost you are going to be out of pocket.
 
You know this is one that I actually can't be sure of the answer too, partly due to a lack of detail. Specifically it's not clear what the BT engineer meant by "no ADSL hardware" being in the exchange, it appears as if nobody has given you a clear answer on this.

If there was really no ADSL hardware then you shouldn't be able to get broadband - full stop, yet since you have had broadband before then BT would have a duty to make sure that your line is fixed accordingly.

Even if he/she meant that Pipex had no unbundled kit for your line in the exchange then it's still partly BT's job to fix that or for Pipex to inform you why they made a change and offer an alternative. I can't think of why BT would physically remove ADSL kit without telling you, there are a lot of unanswered questions.

What happens when you put your phone number into our checker? What services (BT and LLU) does it say are available (YES) to you?

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/checker/

Chances are that, if you go with BT's suggestion, then you will need to pay an activation fee. However not all ISPs charge this. I'd request a MAC anyway before you cancel because it's free and will not expire for 30 days, it'd be interesting to see if they can even generate one.

Still I'm hesitant because the situation remains unclear. I'd probably cancel but swap to a more technically competent ISP with short term contracts for a few months, an ISP like Zen that actually has good tech support but will cost extra is a good bet. In fact you can probably call Zen and ask for their advice first.
 
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Firstly, and most important.

Your contract is with the company you signed the contract with, and no one else. If BT have a technical problem with the line, that is a problem between BT and your service supplier. There is no reason why you should chase up BT, which is down to the person you're in contract with. Any hint of anything to the contrary in the contract unfairly requires you to have technical knowledge and is covered by the Unfair Terms In Contract Act which invalidates that entry in "one size fits all" contracts. The government gave the Office of Fair Trading regulator status if this is an issue.

Putting together a complaint to Ofcom should be your next step, and don't be persuaded otherwise. If you do complain to the regulator always let that complaint run its course. This cross border problem is right up their street.

You are being jerked about like a puppet. That complaint will not only cut those strings, it will also remove the running around like a headless chick element of the problem at their end.
 
Now here's my question coming up. When I asked the OpenReach engineer about whether I'd need to supply the new provider with a MAC number from pipex, he said no. Because there is no actual adsl hardware on the line, it would be considered new and thus would not be needed.

I would like to switch supplier. My question, do I find out and supply my new ISP the MAC number?, or do I pretend its a brand new order for the line (like the engineer said) and just make an order with a new ISP?


Given that it is the same telephone number and the same address, I'm 50/50 about this.

My concern if I dont supply the MAC. It'll take forever to migrate, months of heartache.

My concern if I DO supply the MAC. The MAC refers to an active connection that simply does not exist. Once migration is complete, far as the new ISP is concerned I will be connected, when in reality... i'm not, cause the hardware simply is not there.

What should I do, call Pipex for a MAC and give that to new ISP?, or... believe what the openreach engineer told me, forget the mac, just order a new broadband package from someone else and cancel the pipex.

Hi Arksun, I work for an (un-named) ISP, and if you PM me your landline telephone number, I will be able to run a check on it and let you know if you will need MAC Key to transfer, or if your line is clear of broadband, leaving you free to place an order with any ISP you choose.
 
Hi Arksun, I work for an (un-named) ISP, and if you PM me your landline telephone number, I will be able to run a check on it and let you know if you will need MAC Key to transfer, or if your line is clear of broadband, leaving you free to place an order with any ISP you choose.


Can I recommend no members send details over to another member who isn't a registered ISP rep status on these forums. We always check the ISP reps out with the ISP so any who do not follow the rules and email in informing us should be treated as unsafe to send any personal details to.
 
When you state 'Everything had been absolutely fine up until sept 9th when BT decided it would be a good idea to cancel my phone account and stick next doors newly aquired phone account into my house.' Did you have a dialling tone on your line? Were you able to make or receive calls on this landline? Were you given a different number by BT, when your neighbours were given your number?

What I tend to see a lot is BT ceasing the phone line of a user 'believing' it is not in use or not being paid for, even though it is. This causes all services (including ADSL) to be removed when the cessation completes.

However, it can also be that your line has not actually been cancelled, but 'renumbered' to another number, still giving you service, but with another number, then your neighbours have placed a broadband order with another provider, and BT Wholesale have recognised that there is service on this number already (which was you) and again 'believing' that this servic should not be there, so placing a cease order to cancel broadband and allowing the new owners to place a broadband order.

This is where it gets complicated, your neighbours have placed the broadband order, but the physical connection for that line is on another part of the DSLAM in the exchange, meaning, they need to move it across to allow service. Then you get your number back, but the line has been terminated in the exchange.

Are you confused yet? Because I think this is how BT Wholesale work just to confuse everyone!!

But I'll be able to advise you better once I receive your telephone number.

:)
 
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Music maker please refrain from asking for details while we are unable to verify which ISP you work for.
 
When you state 'Everything had been absolutely fine up until sept 9th when BT decided it would be a good idea to cancel my phone account and stick next doors newly aquired phone account into my house.' Did you have a dialling tone on your line? Were you able to make or receive calls on this landline? Were you given a different number by BT, when your neighbours were given your number?

What I tend to see a lot is BT ceasing the phone line of a user 'believing' it is not in use or not being paid for, even though it is. This causes all services (including ADSL) to be removed when the cessation completes.

Sorry its confusing people, it confuses me. But yes, BT would of had to of removed the adsl hardware from my line AFTER I was cutoff (or used the same hardware for the line now going next door).

The background.

house 48 & 50 used to be one property with just a line going to 50, then they got seperated. 48 then got its own line and that had worked fine for several years as a seperate line to number 50.

I live in house no. 50. When a new tennant that moved into 48 ordered a new BT line + Broadband, instead of connecting to her property, her line went to my house 50. The line that I had then just dissapeared, cutoff. BT actually closed my account completely! (they claim to of sent a letter in the post, it never arrived).

The first stage was to get them to switch my neighbours line back to her house, she called them, engineer came round and moved her phone + broadband to her property no. 48. This left me at no. 50 with a totally dead line, no dialling tone no nothing.

It stayed like that for almost a month, until finally BT went round to activate the line again. First with a temporary number, then few days later my old phone number restored. Since they re-activated my phone line there has been no adsl signal present.

This leads me to believe that during the period of having no line at all with a closed account, BT for whatever reason decided to dismantle the adsl hardware that was for the line/number going to my house (either to use on a different line or what i have no idea.)

After writing my first post, i went to a few ISP websites and entered my phone number into their 'check availability' and most of them tell me that yes, i DO currently have a provider and i do indeed have to provide a MAC number.

fast.co.uk's response to me tel no is:

""A broadband service is already installed on this line. You will need to request a MAC (Migration Authority Code) from your current ISP before transferring to Fast.""

ARGGHHH!!.

So this leaves me with 2 options now:

1) Call pipex and try as hard as I can to get them to talk directly to BT and sort all this mess out.

or

2) Get the MAC number, close my pipex account. Give MAC number to a new ISP and hope to god they have a far closer relationship with BT and would get the matter solved more quickly.

I've read up on some of the highest rated ISP's here and they do claim excellent relationships with BT. The downside being they're considerably more expensive.

Decisions decisions.... keep chasing pipex for a bit, or make switch now and hope new ISP is happy to deal with the existing problem...
 
It is a difficult situation but one that BT can resolve request they repay your activation fee and remove the flag from your account, tell them you had Braodband until they removed your phone line and wish to have broadband again but since you didn't cease the BB and BT did they should pay to have this reinstated.
 
It is a difficult situation but one that BT can resolve request they repay your activation fee and remove the flag from your account, tell them you had Braodband until they removed your phone line and wish to have broadband again but since you didn't cease the BB and BT did they should pay to have this reinstated.

Should i be contacting BT directly in this matter then, or going through the ISP, which i suspect would be the correct order?
 
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request they repay your activation fee and remove the flag from your account

In some cases you can place a broadband order with a new supplier, and have them raise a TAGS query with BT Wholesale, on your behalf. If there have been any 'stop/start' orders on your telephone number recently (which I'm assuming their has) then BT Wholesale provisions will be able to remove the TAG on your telephone number and allow you to place the broadband order.

It's sometimes quicker doing it that way rather than speak to BT and request it be removed, and then having to speak to a new provider and request service to be activated.
 
Would also make them liable to the activation fee again or stuck in long contracts to get free activation. BT's fault he can still select any ISP he wants but needs to get BT involved to pay the activation fee.

Should i be contacting BT directly in this matter then, or going through the ISP, which i suspect would be the correct order?

It is the telephone side that messed up your broadband so it is them that need to pay the activation fee for you to join the ISP of your choice. Only you can fight for this as it was messed up via them on your telephone contract. An ISP can get the flag removed but you are then in need to pay activation fees £49.95 so get them to pay up for their blunders.
 
Yeah I may just have to take the direct to BT approach again.

Tried calling Pipex again today, they said they'd call me back with a '2nd engineer' within the hour, that was 3 hours ago and counting... hate being jerked around.
 
LATEST UPDATE:

I just feel like laughing now... histerically.. at the retardedness of these companies.

So finally I managed to get Pipex to talk to BT properly (amusingly enough, the Pipex tech engineer had the nerve to complain to me about the waiting time to their indian call centres, given all the grief I've had with their very own indian call centres!).

BT told Pipex that yes I have no broadband on my line at all, BUT, the database does still incorrectly show that I do have broadband. Apparently they are going to unflag the line and this can take 24 hours.

Guy on phone then told me he was putting me through to their sales department so they can re-activate my line again. At this point I'm thinking, I'm still on database this will just confuse them. So I tell the tech guy "please will you make sure you explain the situation to the sales guy you're putting me through to, before I speak to him"

He goes "I'll try" and puts me on hold. I'm on hold for 10 minutes so I'm thinking ok he's explaining things no worries.

Pipex sales guy comes on phone "hi how can I help you?"

"...errr, did the tech guy explain my situation to you?"

"..no, sorry"

*TEARS HAIR OUT*

So I give the sales guy my account number and tell him the situation, he's all like "errr, hmmm, well the database does say you have a working line, let me talk to someone about this" and before I have a chance to stop him I'm on hold.

A new tech guy comes on the line "Ive been told your broadband isn't working?"

I explain yes there's no adsl equipment at the exchange, he then goes "have you tried pluggin in your modem to....."

At this point I just want to kill someone. I'm going round in circles here. I try to keep my cool, interrupt him and tell him look I've had 3 weeks of this this is the situation. He puts me on hold

2 minutes later line goes dead.

Un@@cking believable!!!!!

I give up I really do.

Thats it, I know this is all BT's fault but after that kind of retarded treatment there is NO WAY I'm staying with Pipex.

I am now waiting for my phone line to show up as clear with other ISP's and then I'm jumping ship and cancelling my direct debit to pipex.

If my line still hasn't cleared by tomorrow night... ugh, I guess I have no choice but to chase BT directly.

What a nightmare, a totally complete and utter nightmare this has been. All caused by BT closing my phone account in sept and removing all the ADSL off the line (without changing the database in the process).

*takes a deep breath*

Right, time for a new ISP. I am willing to pay extra, recommendations?

I know Fast.co.uk is listed highly here, but the last review was July?, and I've read some negatives about Fast on other forums that are posted more recently, so a little unsure about them now.

Maybe Xilo instead?
 
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Fast? or Fast4??

All isp's have bad reviews at times, look at the ISPR pages and pick one with few complaints for the number of customers, and a short 1-3 month contract
 
24 hours gone, line still tagged.

Talked to BT direct, they said they cannot help me, it has to be done by Pipex to their wholesale department (who wont talk to individual customers).

So basically I am trapped, I can't get broadband with anyone else, i cant even get my broadband back with pipex!.

My only way out is to ensure Pipex tell BT wholesale to untag my phone line otherwise I'm screwed.
 
There is a way if you change the name on the BT invoice that will cause the ADSL tag to be removed or you could move the phone line to another supplier away from BT
 
Some (potentially) positive news.

After discussing my problem with a few different ISP's I got an amazing customer service response back from Surf Anytime. The guy listened to all my ramblings and said he would try his very best to sort the problem out on my behalf. Whilst I was a little wary of signing a contract already (given that I didn't want to be tied down to an ISP if they couldn't fix the problem), the guy re-assured me that if they couldn't fix the problem the contract would be terminated, and confirmed this via email as well. He even said not to worry about giving them billing details yet until they've got a hold of the problem.

I am soo very impressed by this level of customer service from UK based support. It is a night and day difference between this and the god aweful experience of dealing with indian call centres ala Pipex support.

Well done Surf Anytime. Assuming all goes to plan I look forward to submitting a review once my line is up and running again :)
 
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