Sponsored Links

BT charge? Challenge it!

Further to the discussion here: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/showthread.php?t=23318

(5th post)

I got my mum on the case, whom pretended she was my gran on the phone.

What they were charging my gran for was a new line, or setup or something. They were not exactly clear.

However, it was because they maintained that there was no BT line there. Thus it was 3 weeks for an engineer with a price tag of £124.99

Mum went down to the house today, and checked the sockets. Which had BT on them. Annoyed, she rang BT and challenged them.

Whoops they said, and result is that its being turned on today at 1.30 at no cost. B**tards!

So if my mum handt checked and rang, they would have taken another 2 weeks. And possibly charged.

This cost my gran a lot of money in mobile charges, as when you move there is various things to sort out. Havent much hope of getting that back.

I wonder how many other elderly people they have done this to?
 
Well done for challenging them. :)

Given the "mistake" that they made with mine, perhaps this is now standard BT rip-off practice - hope customer doesn't argue, but if they do, admit "mistake" straight away so that they don't make a fuss and bring it to the attention of others!
 
Sponsored Links
Old dude,
Just a quick copy & paste of the relevant parts from BT's Code of Practice for you - hope it's of some help.
If you are a residential customer and your complaint is about sales, a bill or general matters, please phone 0800 800 150 between 8am and 8pm, Monday to Saturday.

If you prefer to put your complaint in writing, please address it to:

Customer Service Manager
BT Customer Correspondence Centre
Durham
DH98 1BT.

If you are still not satisfied with how we have dealt with your complaint, we offer a Complaint Review Service. You can contact this service on the following numbers.

Residential customers - 0800 545 458

If you are still not happy
We want to try and deal with any problem without you needing help from others. However, if you are still not happy after following the process explained above, you can refer your complaint to the Telecommunications Ombudsman, Otelo.
 
Thanks, I'll forward on the links to her. I keep wondering if theres anyway to find out how many other people this has happened to.
 
Sponsored Links
Yes Mel, Otelo require the customer to follow the company complaints procedure before they will look at it:

Before you bring your complaint to Otelo, please use the checklist below to work out if we are able to deal with it.

Is your communications provider a member of Otelo?
Have you already complained to your company?
Are you a residential or small business customer?
You must follow your company's complaints procedure, which is set out on the back of their bills or in their code of practice, and allow them up to three months to sort out the problem for you. If you have been through every stage of your company's complaints procedure and after three months since making the complaint you're still not happy with the way it's been handled, you can pass it to us. For example, the company might not have replied to your complaint or you may not be satisfied with the way they have sorted it out.

 
I wouldn't be surprised it it was a problem with their database, especially if the previous owner has taken their number with them. I think there would be a good chance if a BT engineer had visited and found the intact line that he would waved the fee (depends on the engineer though).

None the less far from satisfactory customer service, so she should definitly complain.
 
perhaps this is now standard BT rip-off practice

Given the fines that would open BT up to I don't understand how you can think that this is standard practice.

Why would BT Retail want to upset their customers? If they do that they will go elsewhere, that make no economic sense!!

Mel said:
I wouldn't be surprised it it was a problem with their database

Not so much a problem with the database but that the address details have been amended and BT have not been notified in order to update the address database.

There are loads of times that houses have changed name or a house has been split up into smaller flat and BT have not been notified by the occupier and it causes a nightmare ie if the house was originally registered as 24 High Rd and there is a line listed at 24 High Road but the property has now been split into 24A, 24B and 24C and there was one line in the property then how is the BT advisor going to know which property now has the line? It isn't always clear and customers don't always tell the truth.:eek:

It isn't always as simple as folk like to make it out to be, especially in London.
 
Although this was for a house in rural Wales. The address had not been amended either. And exactly how would people go elsewhere? Even if they went with one of the many other providers (talk talk, etc), its still going through a BT line. They are not exactly losing much.

In this case, it was either an effort to get more money by dubious means, or my theory, incompetance.

Ah, just looked at your posts. You must work for BT or something.
 
Last edited:
Sponsored Links
And in my case, BT having confirmed that as there was an existing line there would be no charge, they then sneaked a new connection charge onto the first bill here.

"Why would BT Retail want to upset their customers?"

Who said they want to upset them? Quite the opposite - they don't want upset customers, that's why they rapidly apologised and cancelled the charge when I challenged it.
But that doesn't stop them ripping people off (a different thing to upsetting people) by "accidentally" slapping on charges and hoping that the customer either won't notice or, used to being ripped off due to small print that they didn't study, will shrug their shoulders and assume it was their own mistake.
 
And exactly how would people go elsewhere? Even if they went with one of the many other providers (talk talk, etc), its still going through a BT line. They are not exactly losing much.

The line may be run by BT Wholesale and they don't make much out of the line rental.

The profit on lines is made through added on services and calls and if you go WLR then this is where BT Retail will lose out.

Ah, just looked at your posts. You must work for BT or something.

Yip, I sure do so I understand the processes and systems used when orders are placed.

sentup.custard said:
And in my case, BT having confirmed that as there was an existing line there would be no charge, they then sneaked a new connection charge onto the first bill here.

Knowing the ordering system I presume that what actually happened was that when the order was placed the advisor was unable to match the address, this meant the order went through as a new provide and was therefore chargeable and the info they gave you initially was wrong. This is the only way that charges for lines are raised unless the advisor ticked the box to say the wiring was no longer intact and then it is at the Openreach engineers discretion whether or not charges are applied.

Once you received the bill you called them to complain, they checked the order notes and the Openreach engineer confirmed that the wiring had been used before and therefore the fee was incorrect.
 
Which comes down to incompetance. Because its their fault, and only when the customer complained did they correct it.

Once you received the bill you called them to complain, they checked the order notes and the Openreach engineer confirmed that the wiring had been used before and therefore the fee was incorrect.

What do you mean by that? That its acceptable to charge people and then say 'whoops, sorry'? Your saying BT has a policy of 'we dont know, so charge them anyway.' Fact of the matter is, BT charged him when they said they wouldnt. Be it down to whatever in the system, its still incompetance or thievery.

In my grans case, they were fully ready to charge her over £100 and make her wait 3 weeks.

This is on a house in rual Wales, with one neighbour, and that hasnt been changed in anyway to effect the address. And the previous owners had a BT line.

When my mum asked them if they were sure about the charge and wait, they said yes definatly. Its only after I contacted her and asked her to look for BT sockets did they suddenly say 'ok, no charge and it will be on in a few hours', which it was.

How are people like my gran - a complete non techie in every way- supposed to know BT is wrong? They mistakenly trust companies like that to tell the truth and know what they are on about.

Plainly, there is issues in the system somewhere if it can end up diddling old grannies out of £100 + and making them wait for a phone line for weeks on end.

A little loyalty for the company you work for is admirable, but totally misplaced in these 2 cases.
 
Last edited:
What do you mean by that? That its acceptable to charge people and then say 'whoops, sorry'? Your saying BT has a policy of 'we dont know, so charge them anyway.' Fact of the matter is, BT charged him when they said they wouldnt. Be it down to whatever in the system, its still incompetance or thievery.

I don't think even Ofcomedy would find that acceptable, I'm sure there's a requirement for communication providers to bill correctly.Consumers should not have to dispute charges to be treated fairly. By the sound of it their system needs fixing ASAP.
 
What do you mean by that? That its acceptable to charge people and then say 'whoops, sorry'?

In the case of a genuine error, yes.

Your saying BT has a policy of 'we dont know, so charge them anyway.'

No, I am saying BT Retail has a policy of 'If the address doesn't match on the system and we have no record of there being service there before then a chargeable order will be placed. If the Openreach engineer then confirms a line was previously used at the address the fee will be removed.'

Fact of the matter is, BT charged him when they said they wouldnt. Be it down to whatever in the system, its still incompetance or thievery.

That is all he said, she said. People often hear what they want to hear and not what is actually said. I am sure we all have examples of this. They wouldn't be able to prove that was what was said. Anyway, ultimately all orders are placed subject to survey so charges may apply regardless of what the advisor says over the phone.

In my grans case, they were fully ready to charge her over £100 and make her wait 3 weeks.

That would be because the advisor wasn't able to find the address on the database. They should have, and obviously didn't, spoken to the Postal Address Finder team to help them find the address. As they didn't they assumed the address hadn't had service and placed a full provide order. Addresses in Wales and north Scotland can be difficuly to match due to spellings and sometimes customer give less than adequate information to assist advisors in finding addresses.

When my mum asked them if they were sure about the charge and wait, they said yes definatly. Its only after I contacted her and asked her to look for BT sockets did they suddenly say 'ok, no charge and it will be on in a few hours', which it was.

This would indicate the advisor researched the database and was able to find the address. They then cancelled the original order and placed a new order.

How are people like my gran - a complete non techie in every way- supposed to know BT is wrong? They mistakenly trust companies like that to tell the truth and know what they are on about.

Fair point but not really a lot BT Retail can do on that one unless people phone then to double check is there?

Plainly, there is issues in the system somewhere if it can end up diddling old grannies out of £100 + and making them wait for a phone line for weeks on end.

Not at all as my explanation shows. It looks likes the problems were down to advisor error as opposed to any sort of system problem. If there were system problems then your gran would have had to wait and would have been charged the installation fee.


A little loyalty for the company you work for is admirable, but totally misplaced in these 2 cases.

Not at all, as my answers have shown.
 
Sponsored Links
err from my perspective, your answers have just shown that whether it be system error or adviser error that your not able to admit that regardless of how much you strive for perfection within your cirrent profession but that you cant admit your own shortcomings.

like old dude said there are many non-techies out there who have no idea whats what and when that occurs and the "non-techie" finds out they were overcharged its prolly too late to claim it back, in fact there will prolly be some excuse... in fact heres a story:

last year l ended up been offline for 2 weeks due to a lightning strike down the road luckily my hardware (router/computer) were fine however it took out some of our internal wiring (mainly access points and the post outside has burned out) however we were charged like £500 for 3 points to be fixed when in fact we could have replaced them ourselves for less than a fraction of the price, not only that but because the pole was in our garden and we were at the end of the line we were also charged for the line and the fact the only house at the end of that line we had to pay for the box they fitted to the pole (their excuse was something about the fact that where we lived was private property and some other BS) suffice to say we managed to get the call out fee to £50 because the fault was out of our control...

now tell me... doesnt that sound like BT trying to fob ppl off, bet they didnt expect the son of a farmer to actually know a little bit about certain stuff, because l dont think they would have rectified the mistake if not braught to their attention, the point is older ppl who have no idea will continue to be ripped off because they have no idea and prolly dont even know they had been ripped off because BT wont contact them about the situation.
 
err from my perspective, your answers have just shown that whether it be system error or adviser error that your not able to admit that regardless of how much you strive for perfection within your current profession but that you cant admit your own shortcomings.

Not at all.

Anyone who works for BT Retail will admit mistakes happen and sometimes the systems we have to use aren't 100%. It was just earlier today that the payment processing systems went down and we weren't able to process any card payments.

like old dude said there are many non-techies out there who have no idea whats what and when that occurs and the "non-techie" finds out they were overcharged its prolly too late to claim it back, in fact there will prolly be some excuse...

Customers have 6 years to query any charge with BT.

we were charged like £500 for 3 points to be fixed when in fact we could have replaced them ourselves for less than a fraction of the price,

Then why didn't you?

not only that but because the pole was in our garden and we were at the end of the line we were also charged for the line and the fact the only house at the end of that line we had to pay for the box they fitted to the pole

I don't believe that for a minute, the fact the pole was in your garden has no bearing on the fact charges were raised.

suffice to say we managed to get the call out fee to £50 because the fault was out of our control...

Externally all faults are repaired FOC except when the customer or the customer representative is to blame ie cutting the wire.

now tell me... doesnt that sound like BT trying to fob ppl off, bet they didnt expect the son of a farmer to actually know a little bit about certain stuff,

Well, seeing as how it is Openreach that said the charge was to be raised, especially for the internal work, I think you got let off lightly.

because l dont think they would have rectified the mistake if not braught to their attention,

And I agree, as the charges are raised by Openreach who pass them onto the provider who then decide if they are going to charge the end user or absorb the charge themselve.

the point is older ppl who have no idea will continue to be ripped off because they have no idea and prolly dont even know they had been ripped off because BT wont contact them about the situation.

See that argument can be argued everywhere. My gran is partially sighted, if she buys bean in Asda and the shelf label says 40p but she gets charged 50p then she won't know it as the print on the receipt is so small. How is she going to know Asda have ripped her off if Asda won't contact her about the situation?

PS Don't infer older people are stupid and don't have a clue. Apart from being partially sighted my gran is sharp as a tack and she is getting on for 90.
 
Customers have 6 years to query any charge with BT.
yes but no one tells us this, in fact l went through two reps when l queried this to find out two different conflicting stories, one said because of the work done we were liable to charges especially since we owned the premises.. which in truth was BS since the house came with the job altho it did used to be private land which was maintained by the previous owners of the farm, the other said due to them been external we shouldn't have been charged

Then why didn't you?
because we were told that if we did them ourselves that if we made any errors in the wiring it could have adverse effects and possibly cause damage to equipment plus the fact we had to have the guy out anyways (at the time tho we had no idea the problem was as wide spread as it was)

I don't believe that for a minute, the fact the pole was in your garden has no bearing on the fact charges were raised.
the reason we were given for the charge is because the original equipment wasnt fitted by BT (supposedly) hence them assuming we owned the place had paid for it to be fitted or something along those lines, l cant quite remember since its been a while.

Well, seeing as how it is Openreach that said the charge was to be raised, especially for the internal work, I think you got let off lightly.
this was before the new charges came into effect

See that argument can be argued everywhere. My gran is partially sighted, if she buys bean in Asda and the shelf label says 40p but she gets charged 50p then she won't know it as the print on the receipt is so small. How is she going to know Asda have ripped her off if Asda won't contact her about the situation?

PS Don't infer older people are stupid and don't have a clue. Apart from being partially sighted my gran is sharp as a tack and she is getting on for 90.
your taking things out of context, l used an example which l expanded upon.. altho what l will say when it comes to technical stuff most of my family are inept, as a business and this isnt just BT but all businesses have a duty to charge the correct prices, now l know there will obviously be mistakes but l keep on hearing about too many of them... ppl who dont know about this stuff are the ones getting hurt by this, and in certain cases with big companies like BT the customer has no choice because we lack the many choices other countries have.. because all our telecom needs are run through the BT network regardless of whether we like that fact or not..


on a side note: seems BT capped my speed 2 days back didnt have the time to phone them til yesterday, somehow l had a non-existent fault on my line, shouldnt they phone me instead of do this without my permission? after all lm on a (upto) 8meg connection.. they had no idea why their system has pinned my connection speed to 2meg because there wasnt any faults at the exchange nor any reports of any.
 
Can you beleive it?

First off - genuine error. Yes they happen. Thats not my point.

No, I am saying BT Retail has a policy of 'If the address doesn't match on the system and we have no record of there being service there before then a chargeable order will be placed. If the Openreach engineer then confirms a line was previously used at the address the fee will be removed.'

Which they should have done. That policy is obviously not working, because they are obviously making too many mistakes. And besides of which, you would think they try a little harder.

That is all he said, she said. People often hear what they want to hear and not what is actually said. I am sure we all have examples of this. They wouldn't be able to prove that was what was said. Anyway, ultimately all orders are placed subject to survey so charges may apply regardless of what the advisor says over the phone.

So your saying you dont beleive him?

That would be because the advisor wasn't able to find the address on the database. They should have, and obviously didn't, spoken to the Postal Address Finder team to help them find the address. As they didn't they assumed the address hadn't had service and placed a full provide order. Addresses in Wales and north Scotland can be difficuly to match due to spellings and sometimes customer give less than adequate information to assist advisors in finding addresses.

So whos fault is that? Blatently its BTs fault. As as for you inferring the address was given wrong, get lost. My mother is very sharp, and she did the order while my gran was there. Also, she asked for confirmation.

This would indicate the advisor researched the database and was able to find the address. They then cancelled the original order and placed a new order.

So please explain how this was possible when the only different thing my mum told them was that they are charging wrongly according to the BT website, and that there was BT sockets already in the house?

According to you, the support agent would had to have confirmed the proper address, as they apperently had it wrong in the first place otherwise the charge and wait wouldnt be given in the first place.

Fair point but not really a lot BT Retail can do on that one unless people phone then to double check is there?

So I should phone and double check every order with things I know nothing about? What planet do you live on? How the hell is my gran expected to know that BT has gotten it wrong, very wrong? Besides that, my mum DID and they still said the same. It was only the third time when she said about the sockets they suddenly changed their mind. So either she spoke to more than one useless advisor, or the system is flawed.

Not at all as my explanation shows. It looks likes the problems were down to advisor error as opposed to any sort of system problem. If there were system problems then your gran would have had to wait and would have been charged the installation fee.

It 'looks like'? You actually have no idea what happened, you are guessing completely. And you blame everything in your post except BTs systems.

If the system was any good, it wouldnt make such glaring errors as that - nor allow so many chances for operator errors.



Not at all as my explanation shows. It looks likes the problems were down to advisor error as opposed to any sort of system problem. If there were system problems then your gran would have had to wait and would have been charged the installation fee.

Thats the point, she did.

If my mum hadnt of contacted them, and had to argue it, my gran would have had the wait at least. And you expect me to beleive that they wouldnt have charged her if the engineer came out? Right, I'll beleive that.

See that argument can be argued everywhere. My gran is partially sighted, if she buys bean in Asda and the shelf label says 40p but she gets charged 50p then she won't know it as the print on the receipt is so small. How is she going to know Asda have ripped her off if Asda won't contact her about the situation?

I just have to shoot this down...

Thats an incredibly stupid anology. It has nothing to do with any of these situations. The price of the beans is on the label. BT are telling people there is a charge, and wait for a *service* they are providing. BT are making a mistake, your partially sighted gran can see it (or ask someone to check) and go back. How was my gran supposed to know exactly?

And £100+ isnt exactly a can of beans is it?

It all points to BT needing to sort out their processes, and that they are (intentionally or uncaringly) ripping off many customers.
 
Top
Cheap BIG ISPs for 100Mbps+
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Vodafone UK ISP Logo
Vodafone £24.00 - 26.00
150Mbps
Gift: None
NOW UK ISP Logo
NOW £24.00
100Mbps
Gift: None
Plusnet UK ISP Logo
Plusnet £25.99
145Mbps
Gift: £50 Reward Card
Large Availability | View All
Cheapest ISPs for 100Mbps+
Gigaclear UK ISP Logo
Gigaclear £17.00
200Mbps
Gift: None
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Hey! Broadband UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Youfibre UK ISP Logo
Youfibre £23.99
150Mbps
Gift: None
Large Availability | View All
Sponsored Links
The Top 15 Category Tags
  1. FTTP (6027)
  2. BT (3639)
  3. Politics (2721)
  4. Business (2440)
  5. Openreach (2405)
  6. Building Digital UK (2330)
  7. Mobile Broadband (2146)
  8. FTTC (2083)
  9. Statistics (1901)
  10. 4G (1816)
  11. Virgin Media (1764)
  12. Ofcom Regulation (1582)
  13. Fibre Optic (1467)
  14. Wireless Internet (1462)
  15. 5G (1407)
Sponsored

Copyright © 1999 to Present - ISPreview.co.uk - All Rights Reserved - Terms  ,  Privacy and Cookie Policy  ,  Links  ,  Website Rules