Sponsored Links

BT FTTP vs Virgin Media FTTP

Geekofbroadband

Regular Member
So based on this article https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...l-fibre-upgrade-to-go-live-later-in-2023.html I'm in one of the first areas to receive Virgins new XGS-PON Full Fibre later this year, I'm currently on BT 500Mbs so both will be available :p

How does this compare to BT/Openreach FTTP in terms of shared bandwidth between homes, iirc Openreach share 2.4Gbs between 30-32 homes. Would Virgin's FTTP suffer from the same issues as their cable network does with utilization issues, or is it just as good or better than Openreaches implementation?
 
My Virgin XGS full fibre install is on the 28th, I'll post some tests in here once live! :P
 
What matters is the number of subscribers they put on the same PON. If they decide to run a 128:1 split on XGS-PON (as some altnets have said they plan to do), then the total amount of downstream bandwidth will be about the same as BTOR, but it should handle demand spikes better. There will be more upstream bandwidth, but whether Virgin decide to offer products with higher upload speeds (which might cannibalise their own leased line business) remains to be seen.

Also, we're only talking about the last mile here. Currently the only operator on Virgin's network is Virgin, and if their backhaul or IP transit doesn't work well, you don't get a choice of another provider. This might change if the rumoured wholesaling comes to pass.

(Frankly, I think XGS-PON is a pre-requisite for wholesaling. If I were an ISP, I wouldn't want to sell any services via Virgin's congested HFC network; it would make me look bad and cause no end of support headaches)
 
Sponsored Links
So based on this article https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...l-fibre-upgrade-to-go-live-later-in-2023.html I'm in one of the first areas to receive Virgins new XGS-PON Full Fibre later this year, I'm currently on BT 500Mbs so both will be available :p

How does this compare to BT/Openreach FTTP in terms of shared bandwidth between homes, iirc Openreach share 2.4Gbs between 30-32 homes. Would Virgin's FTTP suffer from the same issues as their cable network does with utilization issues, or is it just as good or better than Openreaches implementation?
The FTTP VM are running is on a 1:64 split. It won't have the same issues as the cable network. It's currently vastly superior to the Openreach deployment in terms of the bandwidth per premises.

I imagine Openreach will move to 1:64 initially when they upgrade, too.
 
I imagine Openreach will move to 1:64 initially when they upgrade, too.
I think it's unlikely that they'll do that when deploying XGS-PON to an existing area though, as GPON and XGS-PON run concurrently on the same fibres.

They won't want to combine existing splitters into pairs, because (a) it will halve the bandwidth available to GPON users, and (b) they risk breaking some existing customer connections which don't have enough margin to take an additional 3dB signal loss.

Upgrading all existing customers on a PON to XGS-PON, purely to allow combining pairs of splitters, would be expensive (and intrusive, requiring ONT swapout visits) for very little benefit.

They could use a higher split ratio if rolling out pure XGS-PON to a new area. My suspicion though is that they'll keep 32:1 to keep the network consistent, and to give them some growth room for higher bandwidth services in the future. They could easily sell some "guaranteed bandwidth" business services across this infrastructure. It's also a selling point versus altnets.
 
I guess some might use a 4 way splitter feeding 32 way splitters, this would allow them to easily add capacity, but also minimise port usage, especially while XGS-PON ports are at a premium

I hear that openreach use 4 x 32 way splitters in thier housing at the moment for GPON
 
I think it's unlikely that they'll do that when deploying XGS-PON to an existing area though, as GPON and XGS-PON run concurrently on the same fibres.

They won't want to combine existing splitters into pairs, because (a) it will halve the bandwidth available to GPON users, and (b) they risk breaking some existing customer connections which don't have enough margin to take an additional 3dB signal loss.

Upgrading all existing customers on a PON to XGS-PON, purely to allow combining pairs of splitters, would be expensive (and intrusive, requiring ONT swapout visits) for very little benefit.

They could use a higher split ratio if rolling out pure XGS-PON to a new area. My suspicion though is that they'll keep 32:1 to keep the network consistent, and to give them some growth room for higher bandwidth services in the future. They could easily sell some "guaranteed bandwidth" business services across this infrastructure. It's also a selling point versus altnets.
The combining is done at the headend not out in the field. Existing GPON split ratio unchanged.
 
Sponsored Links
The combining is done at the headend not out in the field. Existing GPON split ratio unchanged.
I understood the 2nd feed into the PON was already in place the headend mostly. So it would be trivial for them to take a feed from a new XGS-PON port, split it two ways and feed either output to two existing 30/32 subscriber PONs. GPON stays exactly the same
 
So if I understand this correctly:
Openreach: 1:32 2.4Gbs shared is 75Mbs per home
It would only take 3 people on the 900Mb package to saturate all the bandwidth.

Virgin FTTP: 1:64 10Gbs shared is 156Mbs per home
It would take 10 people on Gig1 package to saturate all the bandwidth, or only 5 people on Gig2 assuming they sell that soon.

I just noticed this video too, Virgin still use coaxial from the ONT to their Router instead of ethernet, though I suppose it makes sense for their TiVO to still work too.
That push on coaxial doesn't look all that secure 😅
 
So if I understand this correctly:
Openreach: 1:32 2.4Gbs shared is 75Mbs per home
It would only take 3 people on the 900Mb package to saturate all the bandwidth.

Virgin FTTP: 1:64 10Gbs shared is 156Mbs per home
It would take 10 people on Gig1 package to saturate all the bandwidth, or only 5 people on Gig2 assuming they sell that soon.

I just noticed this video too, Virgin still use coaxial from the ONT to their Router instead of ethernet, though I suppose it makes sense for their TiVO to still work too.
That push on coaxial doesn't look all that secure 😅
this is the old way to install FTTP and transfer into cable. the XGS customers get full fibre into the router port so its differently.
 
Sponsored Links
The combining is done at the headend not out in the field. Existing GPON split ratio unchanged.
Sure. But if you combine two 32:1 splitter feeds at the exchange into a single fibre with a 2:1 splitter, then you have made a 64:1 split ratio on your existing GPON users.

It would be tricky to connect two separate fibres into a single XGS-PON port, whilst at the same time maintaining independent GPON connections to those two fibres.

Maybe there is WDM splitter magic that can do this, but the OLTs I'm familiar with have a single port which does both GPON and XGS-PON (i.e. the WDM is internal to the OLT)
 
So if I understand this correctly:
Openreach: 1:32 2.4Gbs shared is 75Mbs per home
It would only take 3 people on the 900Mb package to saturate all the bandwidth.
Yes, but statistically this doesn't happen very often.

People with higher download speeds take less time to download the same amount of content, so they are less likely to be doing it at exactly the same time.

And if they are, those heavy users will receive less bandwidth as necessary to keep some for the lower users. The timeslicing of the PON is controlled by the OLT, which enforces a committed minimum bandwidth for each ONT, defined in the line profile for each ONT.

So yes: even user on the gig package only get a *guaranteed* 75Mbps. In practice, they almost always get far more. This is one reason why many ISPs will only guarantee 450Mbps.
 
So if I understand this correctly:
Openreach: 1:32 2.4Gbs shared is 75Mbs per home
It would only take 3 people on the 900Mb package to saturate all the bandwidth.

Virgin FTTP: 1:64 10Gbs shared is 156Mbs per home
It would take 10 people on Gig1 package to saturate all the bandwidth, or only 5 people on Gig2 assuming they sell that soon.

I just noticed this video too, Virgin still use coaxial from the ONT to their Router instead of ethernet, though I suppose it makes sense for their TiVO to still work too.
That push on coaxial doesn't look all that secure 😅
My offer didn’t include live tele at all, just a free stream box, I assume because they will going iptv,

I do wonder what my network is, it’s a newly setup PIA system, got my install Friday, could ask the guy some questions? He might know? Or might have no idea if he’s just doing internal work no network-work as it might all be run by AV Online.
 
I've got a question about the Virgin Media FTTP setup, at the moment I receive Virgin Media though their HFC setup, when my area is upgraded by Virgin Media will they simply remove the HFC cabling and run the FTTP cabling in a like for like process?

Also this XGS-PON thing, can VM deliver it though existing HFC cabling or will it have to be new cabling?
 
Sponsored Links
FTTP is to premise by definition. They may persist in the external ONT/Coax in HFC areas simply for postcode marketing compatibility but in purely FTTP areas they more likely be migrating to stream https://www.virginmedia.com/tv/stream .

For HFC areas VM can simply run out fibre to their distribution cabinets where they can place the splitter. They then have various options:
  1. Discrete fibre to individual homes taking the FTTP package
  2. Install more localised splitters (CBT equiv) to cover X properties
  3. Run a single fibre distribution fibre with taps (slight loss and synching complexity but its cheaper)
If they don't diminish the impact of Cityfibre then they can choose the quickest option to fend off the competition by getting the product available, if only to cover the proportion of HFC customers who want/need it.

My view is they need to act in the next 18 months and do not have time to dawdle to 2027/28.

That of course assumes Virgin Media are still interested in owning and running broadband.
Current CityFibre overbuild is around 70%. In uncovered HFC, VM could simply open up their duct to Cityfibre with an exclusivity deal, JV or purchase. Lowers Cityfibre costs drastically (civils and data centre nodes), saves VM HFC conversion and maintains their TV services brand whilst remaining the landlord.
 
Sure. But if you combine two 32:1 splitter feeds at the exchange into a single fibre with a 2:1 splitter, then you have made a 64:1 split ratio on your existing GPON users.

It would be tricky to connect two separate fibres into a single XGS-PON port, whilst at the same time maintaining independent GPON connections to those two fibres.

Maybe there is WDM splitter magic that can do this, but the OLTs I'm familiar with have a single port which does both GPON and XGS-PON (i.e. the WDM is internal to the OLT)
Openreach have co-existence elements in the exchanges waiting for XGSPON to be added: those do the WDM and filtering. You're talking about combi ports however those are about the line card and/or the module being plugged into it they're not incorporated into the OLT itself unless you're talking about the tiny ones that don't use cards.

If you thought that was how all OLTs are, though, I can see why you'd be opposed to it. Openreach's solutions, alongside CityFibre and others, are modular.

A single XGSPON port split to feed 2 coexistence elements = 1:32 GPON. 1:64 XGSPON.
 
FTTP is to premise by definition. They may persist in the external ONT/Coax in HFC areas simply for postcode marketing compatibility but in purely FTTP areas they more likely be migrating to stream https://www.virginmedia.com/tv/stream .

For HFC areas VM can simply run out fibre to their distribution cabinets where they can place the splitter. They then have various options:
  1. Discrete fibre to individual homes taking the FTTP package
  2. Install more localised splitters (CBT equiv) to cover X properties
  3. Run a single fibre distribution fibre with taps (slight loss and synching complexity but its cheaper)
If they don't diminish the impact of Cityfibre then they can choose the quickest option to fend off the competition by getting the product available, if only to cover the proportion of HFC customers who want/need it.

My view is they need to act in the next 18 months and do not have time to dawdle to 2027/28.

That of course assumes Virgin Media are still interested in owning and running broadband.
Current CityFibre overbuild is around 70%. In uncovered HFC, VM could simply open up their duct to Cityfibre with an exclusivity deal, JV or purchase. Lowers Cityfibre costs drastically (civils and data centre nodes), saves VM HFC conversion and maintains their TV services brand whilst remaining the landlord.
Thank you for explaining the above, I know Openreach use telegraph poles here even though the local area is nowhere like your typical rural setting where you would expect them.

I do expect Openreach to involve the telegraph poles to introduce FTTP in some way as they already use them to deliver FTTC.

I'm happy on the VM package I'm on at the moment but if I could get least 20MB both upstream and downstream instead of 2MB upload and 15MB download I would be very happy.
 
FTTP is to premise by definition. They may persist in the external ONT/Coax in HFC areas simply for postcode marketing compatibility but in purely FTTP areas they more likely be migrating to stream https://www.virginmedia.com/tv/stream .

For HFC areas VM can simply run out fibre to their distribution cabinets where they can place the splitter. They then have various options:
  1. Discrete fibre to individual homes taking the FTTP package
  2. Install more localised splitters (CBT equiv) to cover X properties
  3. Run a single fibre distribution fibre with taps (slight loss and synching complexity but its cheaper)
If they don't diminish the impact of Cityfibre then they can choose the quickest option to fend off the competition by getting the product available, if only to cover the proportion of HFC customers who want/need it.

My view is they need to act in the next 18 months and do not have time to dawdle to 2027/28.

That of course assumes Virgin Media are still interested in owning and running broadband.
Current CityFibre overbuild is around 70%. In uncovered HFC, VM could simply open up their duct to Cityfibre with an exclusivity deal, JV or purchase. Lowers Cityfibre costs drastically (civils and data centre nodes), saves VM HFC conversion and maintains their TV services brand whilst remaining the landlord.

Remember not everyone is a geek who wants high upload, VM are still capable of selling gigabit download speeds, which from a marketing perspective competes with FTTP just fine. Their situation is nowhere near as dire as areas stuck on DSL services.
 
Top
Cheap BIG ISPs for 100Mbps+
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Vodafone UK ISP Logo
Vodafone £24.00 - 26.00
150Mbps
Gift: None
NOW UK ISP Logo
NOW £24.00
100Mbps
Gift: None
Plusnet UK ISP Logo
Plusnet £25.99
145Mbps
Gift: £50 Reward Card
Large Availability | View All
Cheapest ISPs for 100Mbps+
Gigaclear UK ISP Logo
Gigaclear £17.00
200Mbps
Gift: None
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Hey! Broadband UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Youfibre UK ISP Logo
Youfibre £23.99
150Mbps
Gift: None
Large Availability | View All
Sponsored Links
The Top 15 Category Tags
  1. FTTP (6026)
  2. BT (3639)
  3. Politics (2721)
  4. Business (2439)
  5. Openreach (2405)
  6. Building Digital UK (2330)
  7. Mobile Broadband (2146)
  8. FTTC (2083)
  9. Statistics (1901)
  10. 4G (1816)
  11. Virgin Media (1764)
  12. Ofcom Regulation (1582)
  13. Fibre Optic (1467)
  14. Wireless Internet (1462)
  15. 5G (1407)
Sponsored

Copyright © 1999 to Present - ISPreview.co.uk - All Rights Reserved - Terms  ,  Privacy and Cookie Policy  ,  Links  ,  Website Rules