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BT Losing customers ! Anyone surprised?

A monopoly network is still a monopoly network. Commercially, it makes no difference whether it's a monopoly GPON network or a monopoly dark fibre network. Openreach wouldn't have gotten off their backsides and started rolling out FTTP unless other companies had started rolling out parallel networks and threatened to eat their breakfast.

That's a hard claim to justify, since you'd need 32 times as many backbone fibres.

This either means 32 times as much spine cabling to the headend exchange, with huge "meet-me" patching rooms to patch individual customers to their chosen provider, and space for all the provider's head-end equipment; or it would mean huge street cabinets to host a multitude of providers' patch panels or splitters (who would then each need their own backhaul cables to their own POPs)

Reducing equipment on top of poles would be a relatively minor gain in comparison.
the network infrastructure owned by Openreach is being overloaded, dark fibre would allow for networks to use their own equipment, allowing people to not have multiple ONTs at their homes, I'm all for the government taking back Openreach from BT to push for a dark fibre network across the UK apart from the fact it would be easier manage overall
 
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the network infrastructure owned by Openreach is being overloaded, dark fibre would allow for networks to use their own equipment, allowing people to not have multiple ONTs at their homes, I'm all for the government taking back Openreach from BT to push for a dark fibre network across the UK apart from the fact it would be easier manage overall
Openreach dont have nationwide coverage for starters, and probably wont do when they finish their build, alt nets have been covering those gaps, as an example Openreach is "not planned" in my area, but I have Cityfibre access.

Your idea would be potentially workable, if it was done right at the start with an assurance 100% of properties are covered, but with how things have progressed I would say it isnt viable at this point.
 
Openreach dont have nationwide coverage for starters, and probably wont do when they finish their build, alt nets have been covering those gaps, as an example Openreach is "not planned" in my area, but I have Cityfibre access.

Your idea would be potentially workable, if it was done right at the start with an assurance 100% of properties are covered, but with how things have progressed I would say it isnt viable at this point.
I know the alt nets are covering gaps, I was suggesting a dark fibre network as it would be far better overall across all 4 nations, I don't see many of the alt nets surviving beyond 2030 because they'll most likely we gobbled up by the bigger alt nets, leading to another Virgin Media style national networks, built to different standards all over again. I don't like Openreach being privately owned but these alt nets aren't making money and sooner or later their investors will want their returns like at the water companies.
 
the network infrastructure owned by Openreach is being overloaded
Exactly which network infrastructure are you talking about? Poles: yes, there are overloaded poles in some places. Ducts? In some places there may be congestion from having two or three operator's cables in the same ducts, but nothing like the 30x extra spine cabling that would be required for a dark fibre network. I can't see anything else "overloaded".
dark fibre would allow for networks to use their own equipment
It would (and most customers don't care). But you still haven't said how you would get it built in the first place. Try Australia's National Broadband Network for an example of how *not* to do it.

Openreach with a monopoly copper customer base were quite happy to sit on their hands; as long as customers have no alternative, there's no reason to build.

Any mechanism you can think of to get 100% coverage of a dark fibre network, could have been used to get 100% coverage of a GPON network. The handover to service providers is different, but 99% of people wouldn't notice the difference.
I'm all for the government taking back Openreach from BT
And you will pay for this how, exactly?
to push for a dark fibre network across the UK
And you will pay for *that* as well how, exactly? You could of course just build a completely separate fibre network alongside Openreach's network. Which is essentially what the altnets are doing, piecemeal.
apart from the fact it would be easier manage overall
A GPON network is very easy to manage. It's just software configuration for moving customers from one ISP to another - zero touch. A dark fibre network involves sending out an engineer to perform repatching, or else an extremely expensive optical patchbar in the exchange.
 
the network infrastructure owned by Openreach is being overloaded, dark fibre would allow for networks to use their own equipment, allowing people to not have multiple ONTs at their homes, I'm all for the government taking back Openreach from BT to push for a dark fibre network across the UK apart from the fact it would be easier manage overall
the area of leicester i live in doesn't have openreach fttp, but has virgin media fttc and city fibre
 
Exactly which network infrastructure are you talking about? Poles: yes, there are overloaded poles in some places. Ducts? In some places there may be congestion from having two or three operator's cables in the same ducts, but nothing like the 30x extra spine cabling that would be required for a dark fibre network. I can't see anything else "overloaded".

It would (and most customers don't care). But you still haven't said how you would get it built in the first place. Try Australia's National Broadband Network for an example of how *not* to do it.

Openreach with a monopoly copper customer base were quite happy to sit on their hands; as long as customers have no alternative, there's no reason to build.

Any mechanism you can think of to get 100% coverage of a dark fibre network, could have been used to get 100% coverage of a GPON network. The handover to service providers is different, but 99% of people wouldn't notice the difference.

And you will pay for this how, exactly?

And you will pay for *that* as well how, exactly? You could of course just build a completely separate fibre network alongside Openreach's network. Which is essentially what the altnets are doing, piecemeal.

A GPON network is very easy to manage. It's just software configuration for moving customers from one ISP to another - zero touch. A dark fibre network involves sending out an engineer to perform repatching, or else an extremely expensive optical patchbar in the exchange.
Why the constant battling of this, I was offering suggestions, I would rather we had a nationalised incumbent rather than a private one like we have as they wouldn't be driven by profit.
 
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Because it's pie in the sky. Why do you keep arguing for something which cannot feasibly be implemented without a magic money tree, and has no benefits apart from tidier poles?
 
Magic money tree, ah yes because public finances work that way, government spending is reason why the UK isn't growing, lack there of. Most countries run deficits we in this country seem to scared to spend money, the US is running at 129%+ debt to GDP ratio and aren't suddenly falling over.
 
Magic money tree, ah yes because public finances work that way, government spending is reason why the UK isn't growing, lack there of. Most countries run deficits we in this country seem to scared to spend money, the US is running at 129%+ debt to GDP ratio and aren't suddenly falling over.
Too many people sadly think running a government is akin to household budgeting.
 
Magic money tree, ah yes because public finances work that way, government spending is reason why the UK isn't growing, lack there of. Most countries run deficits we in this country seem to scared to spend money, the US is running at 129%+ debt to GDP ratio and aren't suddenly falling over.
A government ran network is a recipe for dissaster. How many large public projects do you need to see run over budget, be delayed, cut or rearranged into something else? Besides we have an incumbent which already owns most of the lines which were gifted a long while ago. So it's too late for that. The approach taken to increase competition is the best outcome we could have hoped for. We now have 2, 3 or sometimes 4 suppliers in most properties (>50%). While it's not resource efficient to bukld parallel netowrks it 100% gives real competition which lowers prices and gives you real choices. If we have learn anything of the Crowdstrike dissaster is that putting all your eggs in a basket is dangerous. Altnets give us real choices and real fall back / backup connections where a failure of one network/ISP will not usually cause trouble on a separate network/ISP.
 
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