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can anyone advise on (solar) powering a remote 4G and P2P setup?

JM98

Casual Member
Dear All,
I am looking getting broadband to my home via a 4G signal which I can only get some distance form the house (approx 400 MTRS)
Finding components is fairly easy but I have not fixed my choices. However for the purpose of figuring out how to power this by solar I would have the following:
https://mikrotik.com/product/lhgg_lte6_kit (uses less that 8 Watts) PoE powered
https://mikrotik.com/product/wireless_wire_cube (max 9Watts).PoE powered
The Solar controller (could be) https://eu.store.ui.com/collections/operator-sunmax/products/sunmax-solarpoint as it provides 4 PoE outputs.(uses 2Watts)
(the down side of this one is that it uses 24Volts so would require 2 - 12 Volt batteries in series but the plus is that I don't need a 12 to 24 or more converter or two separate PoE injectors.


Does anyone have any idea how I can figure out what Panels and batteries I would need or where I could find this information?

(I want to make sure the system stays up and running 24/7 even during a long spell of Devon rain..

Many thanks!
Jaap
 
I'll try to ask a friend who is better with these things than me..
 
Consumption is 19W over 24hrs = 456W in one hr.

So if on the shortest day in winter you get 3 hrs of sun then you need a 150W solar panel, say 200W to be safe.

Cheap solar panels including used.

www.bimblesolar.co.uk

Solar panels sorted by £ per watt


shows a Canadian 300W panel only slightly more expensive than a 150w panel giving even more headroom for rainy days. Add in the expensive of a controller for a 300W panel.
 
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A few comments:
  • I'm guessing a daily consumption of around 500Wh (20Wx24h) - it may be a little more, or less than this.
  • Play with https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/#PVP for battery / panel sizing - you'll be shocked at the size of panels / batteries you need for all year round use. 500W (peak) of panels and 2x12V, 50Ah batteries in series (1200Wh) is not enough to guarantee year round operation. You will need around 1900W of panels with that size battery to get down to just one day a year when you run of juice. Doubling the battery size will reduce the panel requirement to 1500W or so which might be better. Note that the default 40% discharge limit is fairly aggressive for lead acid batteries so they will only have a few years life.
  • In an ideal world, you might want to find a use for the masses of power you'll have spare in the summer!
  • The MPPT / POE switch you are looking at doesn't do proper (802.3 af/at/bt) PoE, but then it also appears that the MikroTik stuff will cope with this (works down to 12V so probably OK). You will need to check that it will all play nicely together.
The solar will be a killer. Easy to make it work in summer but you'll need something surprisingly big (perhaps impractically so) for winter. Can you manage to swap batteries in winter and recharge them at home? That might make it viable.
 
Of course, the biggest gain would be to reduce the power consumption - can you afford to turn it off for some of the time? Turning it off for part of the time e.g. between 01:00 and 05:00, for example, would probably pay for the cost of the timer needed to do it...
 
Finally, those power consumptions on the MikroTik pages are maxima - if the mean is a lot lower then you'll be able to shrink the power supply arrangements accordingly. I'd contact MicroTik and get them to tell you what the kit "normally" consumes.
 
Consumption is 19W over 24hrs = 456W in one hr.

So if on the shortest day in winter you get 3 hrs of sun then you need a 150W solar panel, say 200W to be safe.

Cheap solar panels including used.

www.bimblesolar.co.uk

Solar panels sorted by £ per watt


shows a Canadian 300W panel only slightly more expensive than a 150w panel giving even more headroom for rainy days. Add in the expensive of a controller for a 300W panel.
Getting peak output from a panel is something to be celebrated on the rare occasion it occurs. On a sunny summer day then you might (when lucky) get 150W out of a 150W panel. On a cloudy winter day, you might get 15W out of a 150W panel.
 
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Dear All,
I am looking getting broadband to my home via a 4G signal which I can only get some distance form the house (approx 400 MTRS)
Finding components is fairly easy but I have not fixed my choices. However for the purpose of figuring out how to power this by solar I would have the following:
https://mikrotik.com/product/lhgg_lte6_kit (uses less that 8 Watts) PoE powered
https://mikrotik.com/product/wireless_wire_cube (max 9Watts).PoE powered
The Solar controller (could be) https://eu.store.ui.com/collections/operator-sunmax/products/sunmax-solarpoint as it provides 4 PoE outputs.(uses 2Watts)
(the down side of this one is that it uses 24Volts so would require 2 - 12 Volt batteries in series but the plus is that I don't need a 12 to 24 or more converter or two separate PoE injectors.


Does anyone have any idea how I can figure out what Panels and batteries I would need or where I could find this information?

(I want to make sure the system stays up and running 24/7 even during a long spell of Devon rain..

Many thanks!
Jaap
It might be worth talking to a company like Marlec and combine solar and wind, it will also give you a pole to mount your comms equipment on....just an idea
 
Ok @JM98 , so I am clueless about batteries and stuff, I asked a friend who's more knowledgeable and he recommended (ballpark) something along these lines for a cheap version that should get you through winter:
- 2 x 110 AGM batteries
- 1000W solar panel
- optional wind turbine 250W to get you extra oomph during the dark months

You could also do it with self-heating lifepo4 batteries, but the costs will skyrocket well over £1k.
 
Looking at your shopping list and the possible cost of a solar/wind powered solution it might be worth have a look at Mr Musk's Starlink option again.
 
Given that power is the problem:
  • Is there anyone near your proposed repeater site who can provide power?
  • Can you site the repeater somewhere where there is power?
  • How much would it cost to get mains power supplied to your repeater site (if you own the site, does having power there provide other benefits outside the networking ones)?
 
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Of course, the biggest gain would be to reduce the power consumption - can you afford to turn it off for some of the time? Turning it off for part of the time e.g. between 01:00 and 05:00, for example, would probably pay for the cost of the timer needed to do it...
all these comments are extremely helpful - thank you so much for so much effort.
I will contact microtik regarding voltage and "normal" use wattage. the solarmax has built in timers for each PoE output so that is certainly an option!
Not sure if I will be able to keepthis unobtrusive but we will see. I will alos @JTiles suggestion of contactint Marlec.
It is starting to a pipedream but who knows - I will certainly report if I decide and update from there.
Given that power is the problem:
  • Is there anyone near your proposed repeater site who can provide power?
  • Can you site the repeater somewhere where there is power?
  • How much would it cost to get mains power supplied to your repeater site (if you own the site, does having power there provide other benefits outside the networking ones)?
all good questions, but given the lie of the land, although 300-350 meters as the crow flies, getting power up there would be much further and challenging - crossing hedges gates vehicle access points etc.
Have just sent of some enquiries but initial calcs by myself and form above, indicate a bigger panel than i hoped for. 2 batteries would be doable and the SowarMax would also work well- a combo with a wind turbine ( we often have plenty) may make sense but all adds to cost. Let's see - an interesting project but whether sensible is still not decided...
 
Looking at your shopping list and the possible cost of a solar/wind powered solution it might be worth have a look at Mr Musk's Starlink option again.
That's just the easy way. We don't do easy on this forum 😎. Plus this way just seems somewhat cooler if I'm honest......
 
Cooler??? what's cooler than getting your internet from space...it is the final frontier after all:p:cool:
Yes but it’s cooler knowing you’ve actually put some effort into something you want and not just taken the easy route, an achievement if you like. Plus you can claim you set up your own microwave link which seems kinda cool 😎
 
Yes but it’s cooler knowing you’ve actually put some effort into something you want and not just taken the easy route, an achievement if you like. Plus you can claim you set up your own microwave link which seems kinda cool 😎
Plus this would be more reliable and have much less down time
 
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So, I did promise to get back...Unfortunately I have to report that I essentially failed. 😢
(for those who are not interested in the details: I handed over 90 to Elon and now wait with anticipation for an invite to place full order.

Unfortunately, no idea who long that will be (South Devon).

The concept is feasible but the reason I decided not to go for the solar/4g router and P2P was that I am not on site much (yet due to work unfortunately) and need the system running reliably for others on site.
The Solar solution, would need monitoring to see if running correctly and may need resizing/tweaking as winter sets in (unless I go with oversize panel and batteries) - I wanted to keep it discrete and control costs so that was not an option)



As for the details, I contacted (thanks @_m and @Dassa for recommending) Microtic to see what their average values are. Unfortunately, they came back saying they cannot give these as too variable. Hence, I would have to calculate with the max numbers:

- the LTE 4G modem max 8 watts (GBP 130)

- The wireless cube P2Point 9 watts (180GBP)

As both the above need powering through PoE (anything ABOVE 12V will work) I choose (for purpose of calculation) the
- Ubiquity SunMAX Solarpoint (159 GBP) <2W as it has 4 PoE outputs at 24Volts each having an individual timer. (Although my calcs were using 24/7)

Finally 2 x 12 Volt batteries. (wired in series) In addition, needed where a pole, cement, various wiring and waterproof box for batteries and another for the solarMAX (although it is weatherproof)

Thanks to @kommando828 I contacted bimblesolar.co.uk (Grant) who were very helpful and suggested a Victron mono 175 or 215W (205GBP) panel and two REC 12V 35Ah AGM deep cycle batteries (103 GBP each) and run the whole on 24Volts.

He did suggest that I would have to run over the winter months to see if sufficient or if a secondary power source would be necessary.
suspect Marlec would have been another good source for some combo but I did not hear back from them (yet).


I thought about a wind generator to as we have plenty of that especially in the darker months but this would add minimum 350GBP to the final bill. (and possibly another battery controller to cope with the two inputs, very possibly making separate PoE injectors necessary etc. (it is getting messy!) I agree with @Dassa that this might actually be a necessity but for me, at least initially I wanted to keep things simple (as I am not yet on site permanently therefor cannot monitor easily)

Of course there are other products that would be cheaper and more efficient but this.

I did not find anyone who is specialised supplying both the 4G and a point2Point solution for off-grid who also supplies the power solutions (in the UK)

So, the basic costs (and possibly not sufficient in winter would be GBP 880 excluding pole and fitting (which would not have to be much.)

Some downsides from my perspective:
Solar panel much larger than I hoped (1580x808x35mm)

  • not setup and forget initially- (requires tweaking and monitoring ove the first winter.)
  • quite possibly would need redesign to add wind (minimum +350 gbp)
  • possibly battery upgrade to two 12V 50Ah (plus 50) or two 12V 85Ah (plus 120)
  • likely costs between 880 – 1350 (incl wind)
  • not as unobtrusive as I would like
  • lower speeds than StarLink and possible ping no better



Positives:

  • very low data cost (unlimited 15-20)
  • can change provider
  • much better than the intermittent 0-2 Mb I get now
  • FUN project
  • running costs MUCH lower than Starlink


So in conclusion: I chickened out – had I been on site permanently already, I would have investigated further and I would have like gone this route (as I like tinkering).
If Fibre does eventually come to the property (not holding my breath), at least some of this equipment could be repurposed or perhaps sold.
The ability of resale of Starlink Equipment not certain.

I really had hoped to come with a Halleluja I did it update but alas not.

Of course most of you advised / predicted this outcome
;)
Many thanks to you all for your helpful comments! @Lucian @Bubblesthefish6 @Dassa @jstyles @kommando828 and @_m (for recommending Mikrotik)
 
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