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CGNAT and Gaming

monkrr

Casual Member
I am soon to be getting the 1GBp/s plan as I was previously on BT but the EE takeover meant that I was put on a slower and laggier plan than I had before. I will be working from home and I enjoy playing a lot of multiplayer games such as Warzone, Fortnite, Rocket League etc which all require a good connection. I was wondering as I know that the 1 gbps plan is CGNAT’ed is there any likely problems that will effect WFH and Gaming as I am sick of high bufferbloat and upload latency when ever I try and play multiplayer games. I would have gotten the 3gbps plan to avoid CGNAT but it’s the only plan not available in my area as I am just outside of London.

Furthermore, I have the Premium Wifi Anywhere plan as My PC is on the floor above the router and I was planning on wiring to a mesh node instead of the router. Would I still get similar speeds/latency?
 
Is there any likely problems that will effect WFH and Gaming? => It depends on the game and remote access solution. Some do not work well over CGNAT. So it's hard to say without specifics.

One thing is certain, you will gain much better latency, whether on CGNAT or not, by taking the hit and wiring your house. You should also drop any Premium Wifi add-ons as these are a ripoff really. Invest in a wired meash like Ubiquiti and your wifi will be solved for ever without having to worry about it every time you change ISPs. Even if the ISP does not allow to use your own router pretty much all of them allow you to switch off the Wifi on their router so you will always be able to use your bespoke wifi solution. This is an investment you will never regret.

As for CGNAT speak with CF sales. Maybe you can convince them of giving you a public IPv4 (not static of course) on the 1Gb plan as you can't possibly get the 3Gb plan. Tell them a colleague of yours has CF but your work VPN doesn't work without a public IPv4. Offer them to get the service without any deal or discounts. Few people have posted that they have been able to get a public IPv4 on the 1Gb as a new customer but obviously YMMV. Do let us know how it goes...
 
Is there any likely problems that will effect WFH and Gaming? => It depends on the game and remote access solution. Some do not work well over CGNAT. So it's hard to say without specifics.

One thing is certain, you will gain much better latency, whether on CGNAT or not, by taking the hit and wiring your house. You should also drop any Premium Wifi add-ons as these are a ripoff really. Invest in a wired meash like Ubiquiti and your wifi will be solved for ever without having to worry about it every time you change ISPs. Even if the ISP does not allow to use your own router pretty much all of them allow you to switch off the Wifi on their router so you will always be able to use your bespoke wifi solution. This is an investment you will never regret.

As for CGNAT speak with CF sales. Maybe you can convince them of giving you a public IPv4 (not static of course) on the 1Gb plan as you can't possibly get the 3Gb plan. Tell them a colleague of yours has CF but your work VPN doesn't work without a public IPv4. Offer them to get the service without any deal or discounts. Few people have posted that they have been able to get a public IPv4 on the 1Gb as a new customer but obviously YMMV. Do let us know how it goes...
Thank you very much for your help. I will look into getting my own mesh. I’m not very technical so the thought of adding my own mesh seemed very complicated. I will try and look at wiring my house but i’m so far away from my router it seems very hard. We have already purchased the premium wifi so I’m not sure I can change it now but I will try. Shall I call up about getting a Public IPv4 after it’s all installed as I have already purchased or should I call before the engineers come and ask for it? Hopefully all goes swiftly. I will let you know how it goes!
 
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Is there any likely problems that will effect WFH and Gaming? => It depends on the game and remote access solution. Some do not work well over CGNAT. So it's hard to say without specifics.

One thing is certain, you will gain much better latency, whether on CGNAT or not, by taking the hit and wiring your house. You should also drop any Premium Wifi add-ons as these are a ripoff really. Invest in a wired meash like Ubiquiti and your wifi will be solved for ever without having to worry about it every time you change ISPs. Even if the ISP does not allow to use your own router pretty much all of them allow you to switch off the Wifi on their router so you will always be able to use your bespoke wifi solution. This is an investment you will never regret.

As for CGNAT speak with CF sales. Maybe you can convince them of giving you a public IPv4 (not static of course) on the 1Gb plan as you can't possibly get the 3Gb plan. Tell them a colleague of yours has CF but your work VPN doesn't work without a public IPv4. Offer them to get the service without any deal or discounts. Few people have posted that they have been able to get a public IPv4 on the 1Gb as a new customer but obviously YMMV. Do let us know how it goes...
Also do you have any recommendations for a Ubiqiti mesh as there’s a lot of options? I only need one for my office where I have my PC and my WFH set up.
 
Also do you have any recommendations for a Ubiqiti mesh as there’s a lot of options? I only need one for my office where I have my PC and my WFH set up.
What's being described is not really a "mesh" (this term implies each AP talking to the other wirelessly). Rather, you should have one or more Unifi access points, and hard-wire each one with a Cat5e cable (or 6/6A) back to a LAN port on the router. If you have multiple APs, buying a PoE switch will avoid having a separate power injector for each AP.

Aside: Unifi does support wireless meshing but you should be sure to turn this off in the controller (sadly, it now defaults to "on" and it can cause problems when you have a network which you intend to be wired)

The best value model these days is U6 Plus (which replaced the U6 Lite). It's compact and powerful, and Wifi 6 (802.11ax) will keep you going for quite a few years. The small saucer shape is ideal for ceiling mounting.

You configure them via free controller software which runs under Windows, macOS or Linux - or you can buy the hardware "cloud key".
 
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What I'm getting on Fibrus right now with CGNAT (also using a cheap all in one router/ONT). It works on every online game I tried personally, including all the ones you mentioned.
 
I am soon to be getting the 1GBp/s plan as I was previously on BT but the EE takeover meant that I was put on a slower and laggier plan than I had before.
"New EE" uses exactly the same platform as BT broadband. There should be no difference in "lag" between the two, and you would have had a choice of keeping the same speed or going up to 1.8 if you wanted to pay the extra.

Whatever ISP you use - for all the talk of spending a rather large sum of money on (in my opinion) overrated Ubiquiti kit, consider running a cable between your PC and router instead, it'll work far better than any wifi solution.
 
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What's being described is not really a "mesh" (this term implies each AP talking to the other wirelessly). Rather, you should have one or more Unifi access points, and hard-wire each one with a Cat5e cable (or 6/6A) back to a LAN port on the router. If you have multiple APs, buying a PoE switch will avoid having a separate power injector for each AP.
I disagee. A wifi mesh does not need to use wireless internet backhaul to be a mesh. Nor need the nodes talk each other via any specific means. Wikipedia says:

"A mesh refers to rich interconnection among devices or nodes. Wireless mesh networks often consist of mesh clients, mesh routers and gateways."

So your interpretation is not really matching a Wifi mesh. So what the main key features of a proper wifi mesh gives you?
  • Extends a wifi network to provide better coverage
  • Provides wifi service via a single SSID irrespective of the band (ie, 2.4Ghz, 5Ghz, 6Ghz, etc)
  • Allows wifi clients to "roam" between different access points
As you can see all of the above points have relation in the term "mesh". The best Wifi mesh systems always use wired internet backhaul as they can:
  • Reduce wifi bandwidth use preventing colisions
  • Reduce latency as the wireless connection is only between the device and the access point, further traffic is all wired
  • Provide faster speeds as more access points usually means shorter distances and less devices using each access point
  • Faster and strong access point to access point (or to master node) communication over wired ethernet
  • Usually wired access points can be powered Power over Ethernet (PoE) which means a simpler deployment as a single PoE switch can power dozens of access points
The best value model these days is U6 Plus (which replaced the U6 Lite). It's compact and powerful, and Wifi 6 (802.11ax) will keep you going for quite a few years. The small saucer shape is ideal for ceiling mounting.
This is indeed a good value for money recommendation. These will need to be paired with a PoE switch as well.
 
Thank you very much for your help. I will look into getting my own mesh. I’m not very technical so the thought of adding my own mesh seemed very complicated. I will try and look at wiring my house but i’m so far away from my router it seems very hard. We have already purchased the premium wifi so I’m not sure I can change it now but I will try. Shall I call up about getting a Public IPv4 after it’s all installed as I have already purchased or should I call before the engineers come and ask for it? Hopefully all goes swiftly. I will let you know how it goes!
Doing the cabling yourself can save a lot of money and this is a perfect DIY project to get your hand dirty. Lots of YouTube videos on how to do it, it's not hard you just need to have the right motivation. With regards to distances in your house you may need to think outside the box. The shortest path may not the most suitable. You can always use outdoor ethernet cable to run cables outside the house. Think carefully where do you want to put your switch, it doesn't have to be where your internet connection lands nor where your gaming PC is. The best place for a switch is where it's easier to route all the cables to the other destinations you want to wire.

I would cancel the order if I were you and renegotiate a new deal without Premium Wifi. At £6/month extra for the Premium Wifi plan you will pay £72 extra per year so in 3 years you can easily pay off 2x Ubiquiti U6+.
 
Also do you have any recommendations for a Ubiqiti mesh as there’s a lot of options? I only need one for my office where I have my PC and my WFH set up.
@candlerb has given you good advice above but do understand that the whole point of a wifi mesh system is to have more than 1 access point. Ubiquiti will work fine with a single device but then it's just like a simple wifi router. So you need 2 or more to get the full benefits. How many will depend on how big your house is, material, what soverage you want to get, where you can get ehternet wires, etc.
 
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"New EE" uses exactly the same platform as BT broadband. There should be no difference in "lag" between the two, and you would have had a choice of keeping the same speed or going up to 1.8 if you wanted to pay the extra.

Whatever ISP you use - for all the talk of spending a rather large sum of money on (in my opinion) overrated Ubiquiti kit, consider running a cable between your PC and router instead, it'll work far better than any wifi solution.
I had a 150/30 plan and was told I would be out on the equivalent plan but was put on a 70/20 and told by customer service that they couldn’t do anything
 
@candlerb has given you good advice above but do understand that the whole point of a wifi mesh system is to have more than 1 access point. Ubiquiti will work fine with a single device but then it's just like a simple wifi router. So you need 2 or more to get the full benefits. How many will depend on how big your house is, material, what soverage you want to get, where you can get ehternet wires, etc.
Thank you very much for your detailed responses they’re very helpful. I will look into all of this and take it all into account to try and get this sorted out and set up and hopefully becomes a good project. First thing I will do is ask for a Public IPv4 once I get installed. Will a public ipv4 be much better than a CGNAT connection for the things i’d be doing?
 
Perfect thank you so much, exactly what i wanted to know! Is that on wifi? or Ethernet.
On ethernet, WiFi adds about 2-4ms but loaded pings are about the same as ethernet on 5GHz.
 
I am soon to be getting the 1GBp/s plan as I was previously on BT but the EE takeover meant that I was put on a slower and laggier plan than I had before. I will be working from home and I enjoy playing a lot of multiplayer games such as Warzone, Fortnite, Rocket League etc which all require a good connection. I was wondering as I know that the 1 gbps plan is CGNAT’ed is there any likely problems that will effect WFH and Gaming as I am sick of high bufferbloat and upload latency when ever I try and play multiplayer games. I would have gotten the 3gbps plan to avoid CGNAT but it’s the only plan not available in my area as I am just outside of London.

Furthermore, I have the Premium Wifi Anywhere plan as My PC is on the floor above the router and I was planning on wiring to a mesh node instead of the router. Would I still get similar speeds/latency?
I run an EE scancom data sim 5/700 down - 100 up which is CGNAT, through a mobile router and can game fine.

Only issues you might find is when you host the game (DnD/table top sim etc), otherwise it’s fine if the game hosts (Apex, Fortnite, CoD etc).
 
On ethernet, WiFi adds about 2-4ms but loaded pings are about the same as ethernet on 5GHz.
You can not seriously have a blank statement like this. The wifi added latency will depend on many factors like wifi mesh vendor, whether it uses wired internet backhaul or not, wifi band, wifi version, distance, wifi client, wifi chip, etc. And I also seriously doubt you can have 2-4ms added latency even is the best case scenario. Pings to my router from a wired computer vary between 0.300-0.600 ms. Here is the ping times from my wifi which uses wired internet backhaul. As you can see it varies between 5ms and 10ms so we could say it's an average of 7.5ms or 7ms if you want to discount the wired part. So that's 2.5x times your 2-4ms estimation and I would really think this is very close to the best case scenario. But the most important thing is that Wifi latency is extremely volatile and subject to many interferences so run a test over a long period of time and you shall see what I mean. Therefore it's pointless to compare Wifi vs wired. It's like comparing apples to oranges. If you want full speed, lighting fast latency and stability you need to go wired, no other choice. Do I can if I loose a few packets over wifi on my iPhone? I don't. But every other device in the house that can be wired is wired.

qM2vhWW5_o.jpeg
 
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And I also seriously doubt you can have 2-4ms added latency even is the best case scenario. Pings to my router from a wired computer vary between 0.300-0.600 ms. Here is the ping times from my wifi which uses wired internet backhaul. As you can see it varies between 5ms and 10ms so we could say it's an average of 7.5ms or 7ms if you want to discount the wired part. So that's 2.5x times your 2-4ms estimation and I would really think this is very close to the best case scenario.
Oh, let me correct myself sorry. I'm actually getting 1ms sometimes 2ms using this old low end all-in-one I got from the rubbish dump over WiFi :p

20240826-182730.jpg
 
You can not seriously have a blank statement like this. The wifi added latency will depend on many factors like wifi mesh vendor, whether it uses wired internet backhaul or not, wifi band, wifi version, distance, wifi client, wifi chip, etc.
I was not making a blank statement, I was just sharing my personal experience with my devices.
 
I was not making a blank statement, I was just sharing my personal experience with my devices.
Well it was worded as a blank statement hence my reply. And those sort of statements without any qualification as what device, what router, under which conditions are very misleading in my view. Hence why you can't have a blanket statement in this case.
 
Well it was worded as a blank statement hence my reply. And those sort of statements without any qualification as what device, what router, under which conditions are very misleading in my view. Hence why you can't have a blanket statement in this case.
I thought it made sense based on what I replied to, but fair enough.

What's baffling me is that you think it's near or completely impossible to get as low as 2-4ms over WiFi. I have got consistently less than 1ms on 2.4GHz before.
 
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