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CityFibre vs BT fttp

rickyuk

Casual Member
Hi guys.

I’ve been this website’s reader for over 10 years and finally decided to register. I need some advice guys please.

Right now I am with VM 1Gig but as a gamer I am fed up with high latency.

Last month both City Fibre and BT full fibre went live in our area. Obviously straight away I decided to leave VM. The choice is now between BT and several providers that run on the CityFibre’s network.

I know that for gaming upload doesn’t have to be very high, what matters is latency. With BT I can get 1Gig for £40.99 a month plus 12 months free Xbox game pass (I am an Xbox dude) and access to BT hotspots. None of the CF providers offer the same (with some of them 1Gig packages are even more expensive than BT) however there are advantages like symmetrical speeds, monthly contracts and lower prices (not much though). Plus I know that CF is going to upgrade their network to XGS Pon.

So the question is since i don’t really need high upload speed would it be wiser to go with BT (especially since they offer 12 months game pass) or go for a future proof CF’s network (BT said nothing about upgrading their network to XGS PON). Another thing I am thinking about is that some of best offers are with small providers like No one and Yayzi and we’ve seen recently what happened with Zybre and how much inconvenience it caused to their customers. Also there is an issue when things go wrong those providers would need to contact CF to rectify them, with BT it’s more straight forward.

Sorry for such a huge message but I am genuinely finding it hard to make a final decision since there are so many various factors at play. Technology, perks, risks of an isp going bust etc.

I just need some opinions from the more technologically and marketminded people.

Thank you

Ricky :)
 
Welcome! I am pondering this also except BT are good to go and CF and going live “any minute now”…

I am also wondering about the future proofing here with CF, there is dreadful feedback people have given with CF of trying to move from one provider to another (need full termination before can go live with another ISP), of which this will get sorted in long run.

I can see many providers still use OpenReach backhauls which is just another dependency on OR regardless of CF incredible infrastructure, the XGS Pon for me personally won’t make a different as the cost difference for this wouldn’t be worth my while.

I am also with VM and pings are daft! Gaming works but jeepers I hate being the most random ping player on any given server!

However I may be praising BT slightly above but be careful as I believe BT do CGNAT which can be an issue for some games or hosting your own game server, or VPN for that matter (Yes there are complex workarounds).

Regardless of whom you pick, try and get a static IPv4 and where possible the modern IPv6! (Shame on you VM).

Keep us posted!
 
Thank you for your reply Mak.

The process of switching providers on the CF’s network makes no sense. I heard really bad feedback on Vodafone’s customer service and how long it takes to get things fixed if something goes wrong and TalkTalk is £15 more expensive than the BT’s package I am on now, crazy.
I actually signed up for BT 1Gig and right now I am in the cooling of period so I can cancel anytime and go for one of the CF’s providers. I have no complaints about BT’s fttp. It’s perfect and consistent. No issues at all.

I looked at IDNET, they offer ipv4 and 6 on their 1Gig package. They are famous for their excellent customer service. Also they’ve been around for a while and it looks like they are unlikely to go bust.

Giganet and Octaplus seem to have very mixed reviews. Plus they utilise CGNAT.

Decisions Decisions :)
 
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Welcome! I am pondering this also except BT are good to go and CF and going live “any minute now”…

I am also wondering about the future proofing here with CF, there is dreadful feedback people have given with CF of trying to move from one provider to another (need full termination before can go live with another ISP), of which this will get sorted in long run.

I can see many providers still use OpenReach backhauls which is just another dependency on OR regardless of CF incredible infrastructure, the XGS Pon for me personally won’t make a different as the cost difference for this wouldn’t be worth my while.

I am also with VM and pings are daft! Gaming works but jeepers I hate being the most random ping player on any given server!

However I may be praising BT slightly above but be careful as I believe BT do CGNAT which can be an issue for some games or hosting your own game server, or VPN for that matter (Yes there are complex workarounds).

Regardless of whom you pick, try and get a static IPv4 and where possible the modern IPv6! (Shame on you VM).

Keep us posted!
Hmm BT don’t use CGNAT at all but rather dynamic IP and offer IPv6
 
My feelings on this are mixed as on paper the CF offering should be better as symmetrical etc . I don’t have CF where I am so have gone with BT 900 and I am also on Xbox and it has been superb . I do have swish fibre on my pole but I nothing has made me want to sign up to them yet as I am so pleased with my BT connection .
 
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My feelings on this are mixed as on paper the CF offering should be better as symmetrical etc . I don’t have CF where I am so have gone with BT 900 and I am also on Xbox and it has been superb . I do have swish fibre on my pole but I nothing has made me want to sign up to them yet as I am so pleased with my BT connection .
Exactly. It’s faultless. It’s just there is so much praise for CF’s network (how advanced and future proof it is) on various forums and so much hatred for BT. It makes me think twice before committing to BT. Xbox game pass is very inviting and tempting :)
 
Thank you for your reply Mak.

The process of switching providers on the CF’s network makes no sense. I heard really bad feedback on Vodafone’s customer service and how long it takes to get things fixed if something goes wrong and TalkTalk is £15 more expensive than the BT’s package I am on now, crazy.
I actually signed up for BT 1Gig and right now I am in the cooling of period so I can cancel anytime and go for one of the CF’s providers. I have no complaints about BT’s fttp. It’s perfect and consistent. No issues at all.

I looked at IDNET, they offer ipv4 and 6 on their 1Gig package. They are famous for their excellent customer service. Also they’ve been around for a while and it looks like they are unlikely to go bust.

Giganet and Octaplus seem to have very mixed reviews. Plus they utilise CGNAT.

Decisions Decisions :)
Then by the sounds of it, you should remain with BT till contract runs out and see how CF have changed in 18/24mo ? (maybe owned by Virgin, maybe 2.5Gb offering nationwide, maybe better moving process).
 
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Hmm BT don’t use CGNAT at all but rather dynamic IP and offer IPv6
Ohh I read on other forums they do? I stand correct then and thanks for pointing it out!
 
BT is a fine choice. If you don't care about symmetric speeds and think the service and price are OK, then why not keep it. Cityfibre's ISPs won't be significantly better (especially the newer, smaller ones who do need to use CGNAT and whose peering arrangements won't be as good).


Ohh I read on other forums they do? I stand correct then and thanks for pointing it out!

BT once used CGNAT as a trial but only with its lowest end customers and IIRC you could opt out. I'm not aware of them using it now - except on mobile of course. (although their 4G backup service does give you a real IP)

I think I'm right in saying that BT and Sky remain the two largest ISPs who have IPv6 enabled across all of their network too.
 
Then by the sounds of it, you should remain with BT till contract runs out and see how CF have changed in 18/24mo ? (maybe owned by Virgin, maybe 2.5Gb offering nationwide, maybe better moving process)
It’ll be interesting to see how many of those small providers will have survived by then.
 
BT is a fine choice. If you don't care about symmetric speeds and think the service and price are OK, then why not keep it. Cityfibre's ISPs won't be significantly better (especially the newer, smaller ones who do need to use CGNAT and whose peering arrangements won't be as good).
Plus the perks of getting an Xbox pass and BT hotspots are a good incentive. Smaller providers simply can’t afford it.
 
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It’ll be interesting to see how many of those small providers will have survived by then.
Very true, either that or the big brands will gobble them up once they are more established
 
I think you did the right thing for your personal situation, BT's makes more sense. Once you come out the other side of the 24months contract and have had two contract rises you can see if it makes sense to try Cityfibre. In general you get the best offers when you sign up as a new customer so jumping from Openreach to Citifibre ISPs will allow you put ISPs against each other and bargain for the best price. Also if you are careful you can overlap the services for a week or so, so that you have continued service.
 
Most CityFibre providers would be cheaper than BT and offer gigabit upload. Ping on CityFibre would probably be about the same if not better, cant be sure though.
 
Most CityFibre providers would be cheaper than BT and offer gigabit upload. Ping on CityFibre would probably be about the same if not better, cant be sure though.
That’s correct but OP is a gamer so can get extra value from Xbox subscription that BT bundles and doesn’t need extra upload. When people ask for advice it’s for something that‘s better for them. Not better for who is giving feedback.
 
Most CityFibre providers would be cheaper than BT and offer gigabit upload. Ping on CityFibre would probably be about the same if not better, cant be sure though.
I used to think that CityFibre based providers are cheaper than BT but they are not. The offer I have with BT is £40.99, Zen, IDNET, TalkTalk, Fibrehop, Giganet, Yayzi are either the same or more expensive, with no perks like Xbox game pass or hotspots. Looking at Yayzi website seems there is no way to contact them at all.

Vodafone and Noone internet are the only ones that a cheaper by £2-£4.
Some CityFibre based providers offer no exit fees and no mid contract price rises, these are the only points that make them a better option than BT (apart from the symmetrical speeds which I am not that bothered with)

With small ISPs like noone internet or octaplus there is always a risk of them going under and we’ve recently seen how much hassle it causes to their users.

So all in all it does look like BT is a better option which I didn’t expect at all :)
 
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I think you did the right thing for your personal situation, BT's makes more sense. Once you come out the other side of the 24months contract and have had two contract rises you can see if it makes sense to try Cityfibre. In general you get the best offers when you sign up as a new customer so jumping from Openreach to Citifibre ISPs will allow you put ISPs against each other and bargain for the best price. Also if you are careful you can overlap the services for a week or so, so that you have continued service.

I am really interested to see how many of those small CityFibre based providers are going to survive in the next year or two. Hopefully they will coz we need as much competition as possible but the odds of that happening aren’t that high.
 
I used to think that CityFibre based providers are cheaper than BT but they are not. The offer I have with BT is £40.99, Zen, IDNET, TalkTalk, Fibrehop, Giganet, Yayzi are either the same or more expensive, with no perks like Xbox game pass or hotspots. Looking at Yayzi website seems there is no way to contact them at all.

Vodafone and Noone internet are the only ones that a cheaper by £2-£4.
Some CityFibre based providers offer no exit fees and no mid contract price rises, these are the only points that make them a better option than BT (apart from the symmetrical speeds which I am not that bothered with)

With small ISPs like noone internet or octaplus there is always a risk of them going under and we’ve recently seen how much hassle it causes to their users.

So all in all it does look like BT is a better option which I didn’t expect at all :)
You can a get a year of Xbox game pass ultimate for £92, so It would still work out about the same price (with price rises in mind) to get CityFibre Vodafone 1 gig and Game pass separately vs BT. Currently the 1 gig plan would cost £36 however, it often goes on sale for about £30 a month so it can be alot cheaper.


Xbox pass ultimate is a a false economy anyway unless you like trying out new games all the time. Assuming you play on PC (which you should if you care about the lowest latency) It would work out cheaper to buy the games on a stream sale or play what EpicGames are giving away for free. You can figrue out if having gamepass is worth it for you but It would still be about the same to get it + Vodafone CityFibre as I said.
 
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That’s correct but OP is a gamer so can get extra value from Xbox subscription that BT bundles and doesn’t need extra upload. When people ask for advice it’s for something that‘s better for them. Not better for who is giving feedback.
Explain to me how your comments are more helpful than mine.

I said Ping would be better on CityFibre if not simmiller, but not even the ISP itself can guarantee that.

I am fully aware that OP dosent care about having the best upload speed but its still a bonus to some extent.

All your saying is "I think you did the right thing for your personal situation" Like wth does that even mean. Care to elaborate?
 
what latency you getting for it to impact your gaming so much??

What speeds you getting to the xbox?
 
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