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CityFibre vs BT fttp

You can a get a year of Xbox game pass ultimate for £92, so It would still work out about the same price (with price rises in mind) to get CityFibre Vodafone 1 gig and Game pass separately vs BT. Currently the 1 gig plan would cost £36 however, it often goes on sale for about £30 a month so it can be alot cheaper.


Xbox pass ultimate is a a false economy anyway unless you like trying out new games all the time. Assuming you play on PC (which you should if you care about the lowest latency) It would work out cheaper to buy the games on a stream sale or play what EpicGames are giving away for free.
you can get it so much cheaper if you hunt around too, think I paid £36 odd for a year, and I don't even have an xbox... league champs/games on xbox app on PC are all I use tbh.
 
This thread is getting toxic. Time to take a break. I’ve got all the answers I needed. Thank you everyone.
The audacity of @GreenLantern22 to like this comment-


You replied to my innocent comment saying "When people ask for advice it’s for something that‘s better for them. Not better for who is giving feedback." Your tone was condescending, disrespectful and is not necessary in any way. I dont think your statement is true, I mentioned what the latency would be like which is relevant to the OP.

I won't tolerate being talked down to.
 
In terms of latency and assuming Openreach, it really seems to depend where you live. Openreach appear to run a pretty high latency network in general. Latency from just north of the M25 to Google:

PING www.google.com(lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004)) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=1 ttl=120 time=5.63 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=2 ttl=120 time=5.37 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=3 ttl=120 time=5.62 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=4 ttl=120 time=5.73 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=5 ttl=120 time=5.80 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=6 ttl=120 time=5.67 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=7 ttl=120 time=5.48 ms

Latency from Edinburgh:

PING www.google.com(lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004)) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=1 ttl=118 time=21.8 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=2 ttl=118 time=22.1 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=3 ttl=118 time=22.2 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=4 ttl=118 time=21.8 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=5 ttl=118 time=22.1 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=6 ttl=118 time=21.3 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=7 ttl=118 time=22.4 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=8 ttl=118 time=22.2 ms

22 msec is pretty high, considering the short distance. Triple that and you're talking about typical transatlantic performance. Not sure what Openreach are doing to take so long to clear packets. Must need a hella lot of DRAM to hold all these packets on their network for such a long time.
This most likely isn't Openreach but the ISP responsible for your services as Openreach only offer last-mile services on the consumer spectrum
 
In terms of latency and assuming Openreach, it really seems to depend where you live. Openreach appear to run a pretty high latency network in general. Latency from just north of the M25 to Google:

PING www.google.com(lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004)) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=1 ttl=120 time=5.63 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=2 ttl=120 time=5.37 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=3 ttl=120 time=5.62 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=4 ttl=120 time=5.73 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=5 ttl=120 time=5.80 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=6 ttl=120 time=5.67 ms
64 bytes from lhr25s31-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:81d::2004): icmp_seq=7 ttl=120 time=5.48 ms

Latency from Edinburgh:

PING www.google.com(lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004)) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=1 ttl=118 time=21.8 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=2 ttl=118 time=22.1 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=3 ttl=118 time=22.2 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=4 ttl=118 time=21.8 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=5 ttl=118 time=22.1 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=6 ttl=118 time=21.3 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=7 ttl=118 time=22.4 ms
64 bytes from lhr48s49-in-x04.1e100.net (2a00:1450:4009:827::2004): icmp_seq=8 ttl=118 time=22.2 ms

22 msec is pretty high, considering the short distance. Triple that and you're talking about typical transatlantic performance. Not sure what Openreach are doing to take so long to clear packets. Must need a hella lot of DRAM to hold all these packets on their network for such a long time.
Latency is very much dependent on where you live, especially with respect to servers based variously in London datacentres. The further you are geographically from them the higher the ping.
 
I am on Community Fibre. Ping to google.com is ~2ms. With a VPN to the Midlands I get this:

PING www.google.com (212.115.105.72): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 212.115.105.72: icmp_seq=0 ttl=61 time=11.470 ms
64 bytes from 212.115.105.72: icmp_seq=1 ttl=61 time=14.689 ms
64 bytes from 212.115.105.72: icmp_seq=2 ttl=61 time=10.908 ms
64 bytes from 212.115.105.72: icmp_seq=3 ttl=61 time=12.520 ms
64 bytes from 212.115.105.72: icmp_seq=4 ttl=61 time=11.268 ms
64 bytes from 212.115.105.72: icmp_seq=5 ttl=61 time=11.317 ms
64 bytes from 212.115.105.72: icmp_seq=6 ttl=61 time=11.017 ms
^C
--- www.google.com ping statistics ---
7 packets transmitted, 7 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 10.908/11.884/14.689/1.245 ms

From Ireland:

PING www.google.com (209.85.202.106): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 209.85.202.106: icmp_seq=0 ttl=58 time=15.566 ms
64 bytes from 209.85.202.106: icmp_seq=1 ttl=58 time=12.908 ms
64 bytes from 209.85.202.106: icmp_seq=2 ttl=58 time=15.975 ms
64 bytes from 209.85.202.106: icmp_seq=3 ttl=58 time=15.259 ms
64 bytes from 209.85.202.106: icmp_seq=4 ttl=58 time=17.400 ms
64 bytes from 209.85.202.106: icmp_seq=5 ttl=58 time=12.899 ms
64 bytes from 209.85.202.106: icmp_seq=6 ttl=58 time=15.760 ms
64 bytes from 209.85.202.106: icmp_seq=7 ttl=58 time=13.085 ms
64 bytes from 209.85.202.106: icmp_seq=8 ttl=58 time=15.925 ms
^C
--- www.google.com ping statistics ---
9 packets transmitted, 9 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 12.899/14.975/17.400/1.527 ms
 
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Well aware of the physics. My point is that Openreach run a very high latency network. An extra 17ms from Edinburgh is not representative of a low latency network. There are some significant delays going on. Even 6ms from a North London site is unacceptable. A friend on an alt-net gets about 2ms from further north to London, so there is clearly something going on with Openreach.
As noted above Openreach don’t run the network at Layer 3 beyond the head end exchange where you’re connected. The connection is handed off at the OLT/L2S at said exchange and uses a backhaul connection - either the ISP’s own connection (rare) or that of a wholesale provider like BT Wholesale, Talk Talk etc.

There is no “Openreach network” per se
 
Not related but a question about CityFibre and their deployment.

A couple of weeks ago cables were put in but only one half of my street was dug up and toby boxes put in place. The other half has been left with just white lines where boxes would have gone. Why is this? I assume existing ducting was used but why not install the boxes. Are they not needed there or will they be installed if someone takes a service.
 
No, the entire backhaul, the PPPoE session, is run over Openreach backhaul network. Breaks out at the provider's LNS in London - Telehouse East/West/etc. Almost all of the latency is due to Layer 2 backhaul.
There is no Openreach backhaul network. As stated it’s someone else’s pipe once it hits the egress the OLT/L2S

[technically there is an Openreach Cablelink connecting one to the other at the handover - but that’s effectively a single mode 10GbE connection]
 
No, the entire backhaul, the PPPoE session, is run over Openreach backhaul network. Breaks out at the provider's LNS in London - Telehouse East/West/etc.
As you've been told several times, there is no Openreach backhaul network!!

The fibres from end properties are lit by devices called Optical Line Terminations (OLT) located in larger Openreach exchanges, called "head-end exchanges".

At these head-end exchanges, providers buy interconnects called "cablelinks" to take the traffic from the OLTs. At that point, Openreach is no longer involved. The cablelink takes traffic to other equipment in the exchange, and from there over someone else's backhaul network.

BT Wholesale do have a backhaul network that they resell to other providers - but BT Wholesale is not Openreach. There are also separate backhaul networks run by Talktalk, Zen and others. Which backhaul network an individual FTTP connection uses depends on the ISP and which backhaul network they've chosen to buy capacity from.

But Openreach is not one of the options, since there isn't any Openreach backhaul network. If you want to buy direct from Openreach, then you have to build out your own network to all the handover exchanges.
 
As you've been told several times, there is no Openreach backhaul network!!

The fibres from end properties are lit by devices called Optical Line Terminations (OLT) located in larger Openreach exchanges, called "head-end exchanges".

At these head-end exchanges, providers buy interconnects called "cablelinks" to take the traffic from the OLTs. At that point, Openreach is no longer involved. The cablelink takes traffic to other equipment in the exchange, and from there over someone else's backhaul network.

BT Wholesale do have a backhaul network that they resell to other providers - but BT Wholesale is not Openreach. There are also separate backhaul networks run by Talktalk, Zen and others. Which backhaul network an individual FTTP connection uses depends on the ISP and which backhaul network they've chosen to buy capacity from.

But Openreach is not one of the options, since there isn't any Openreach backhaul network. If you want to buy direct from Openreach, then you have to build out your own network to all the handover exchanges.
I thought this, Openreach has always been a last mile provider
 
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No, the entire backhaul, the PPPoE session, is run over Openreach backhaul network. Breaks out at the provider's LNS in London - Telehouse East/West/etc. Almost all of the latency is due to Layer 2 backhaul.
The absolute most generous interpretation would be that Openreach can provide an optical (ie layer 1) services for ISPs to use to link their equipment together, but I'm not sure if they actually have presence in those datacentres. They certainly have nothing for an LNS to speak to - any BRAS function is owned by someone else

Just adding to the pile on, as everyone else has said, Openreach doesn't do any packet mangling outside of the ONT/DSLAM and L2S boundaries. Everything else is BT Wholesale (if it's BT/EE/PN or a 3rd party that uses them) or the ISP's own kit in the case of TalkTalk, Sky and others. Zen would be in the middle, using BTw where they don't have a presence of their own

It might be helpful to tell us which ISP this actually is?
 
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