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EE Finalise Their 3G Switch Off Plans

There is a lot you have written which I haven't time to read but one point regarding poles for fibre and your mention of emergency use. Installing what you are implying is critical infrastructure on poles is not where critical infrastructure should ever be! All new build housing has critical infrastructure underground for good reason, its more reliable and often space is at a premium. Where existing streets are being wired up with fibre where existing telecoms are underground, and the replacement for copper is then strung on poles should never be allowed.

The fact that you have no time to read what he has to say tells me that we shouldn’t waste any time on you. That is incredibly disrespectful to the intelligence of the people of this forum.

Believe me your views do not reflect what the vast majority of this forum does. I am detecting some intense nimby vibes from you.
 
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There is millions installed so good luck getting them replaced in a year or two, thats why there is such a long contract.
Absolutely. But I'd imagine they'd go one of a few ways:
1) The meter will fall back to 2G (until thats also retired - but long enough to meet out the contract - I doubt there are any units in service which cannot fall back to 2G)
2) The comms unit will be swapped out
3) The comms unit is already do 4G hardware wise, and will be patched OTA. (Signal permitting)
4) O2 end up delaying switch off in England & Wales, at a minimum. (3G switch-off could still occur in Scotland) - though would add 3 years to their switch off timeframe.
5) The meter goes back to a traditional "dumb" meter from a supplier POV (back to meter readings) - only with an IHD, and those customers get added to the chunk of customers who need updates/upgrades/SMETS1 swapouts etc.


2.25 is the key bit - but they very much gloss over the issue (isn't really their issue, yet)

DCC won the contract in 2013, for 12 years. (2025)
(You can view their license here -> https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/about-dcc/governance-regulations/smart-dcc-licence-regulation/ but it's a hella long wordy snoozefest)
VMO2 3G Off estimate (2025) seems very coincidental to me :)

Without the wording on the contract, I can only speculate - but I'd imagine O2 would have been very careful with how it was spec'd in the contract - they'd lose out if they ended up with long term service outages, for example. I simply can't see an MNO of their size making the mistake of saying they'd be providing 3G only infrastructure.

DCC Have just signed a contract with Voda for 4G service (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...grade-energy-smart-meters-with-4g-mobile.html - note in their announcement "up to" 15 years :ROFLMAO:) - so they'll be running parallel and migrating over (Sounds good... SMETS1 migrations to work again post energy supplier change is going really well.... :rolleyes: )

It will be interesting to see how other 3G switch-offs go, if speculation is correct and Vodafone have already seen issues removing 3G - VMO2 are pretty screwed :D
 
One thing I wonder if it will be possible and that's with the freed up spectrum, will we see faster 4G/5G speeds on all operators including EE as well as more 4G/5G coverage.
 
Absolutely. But I'd imagine they'd go one of a few ways:
1) The meter will fall back to 2G (until thats also retired - but long enough to meet out the contract - I doubt there are any units in service which cannot fall back to 2G)
2) The comms unit will be swapped out
3) The comms unit is already do 4G hardware wise, and will be patched OTA. (Signal permitting)
4) O2 end up delaying switch off in England & Wales, at a minimum. (3G switch-off could still occur in Scotland) - though would add 3 years to their switch off timeframe.
5) The meter goes back to a traditional "dumb" meter from a supplier POV (back to meter readings) - only with an IHD, and those customers get added to the chunk of customers who need updates/upgrades/SMETS1 swapouts etc.


2.25 is the key bit - but they very much gloss over the issue (isn't really their issue, yet)

DCC won the contract in 2013, for 12 years. (2025)
(You can view their license here -> https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/about-dcc/governance-regulations/smart-dcc-licence-regulation/ but it's a hella long wordy snoozefest)
VMO2 3G Off estimate (2025) seems very coincidental to me :)

Without the wording on the contract, I can only speculate - but I'd imagine O2 would have been very careful with how it was spec'd in the contract - they'd lose out if they ended up with long term service outages, for example. I simply can't see an MNO of their size making the mistake of saying they'd be providing 3G only infrastructure.

DCC Have just signed a contract with Voda for 4G service (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...grade-energy-smart-meters-with-4g-mobile.html - note in their announcement "up to" 15 years :ROFLMAO:) - so they'll be running parallel and migrating over (Sounds good... SMETS1 migrations to work again post energy supplier change is going really well.... :rolleyes: )

It will be interesting to see how other 3G switch-offs go, if speculation is correct and Vodafone have already seen issues removing 3G - VMO2 are pretty screwed :D


Another option, albeit perhaps a bit of a nuclear one, might be to switch smart meters in the southern part of the UK to the same Arquiva LRR system used for smart meters in the north of the UK. The Arquiva LRR does have the big advantage of giving much better penetration than any of the mobile frequencies, as it operates at the much lower frequency of around 440MHz (smart meter comms only needs a tiny data bandwidth). It's also not subject to the whims of the mobile operators changing and upgrading their networks.
 
to the same Arquiva LRR system used for smart meters in the north of the UK.
The problem with this approach is the contract went to a vendor for a specific solution, and it'd mean VMO2 would have to sub that to Arqiva (or similar) to provide it as it's not in their wheelhouse/ability to provide. Changing the solution would also mean changing the comms unit on each smart device. That ignores any requirements to coverage extension / build etc. Looking at some examples, I can't see them supporting both tech.
(e.g. https://www.smartme.co.uk/documents/EPRS000098_01EUAM110R Enhanced Credit_LR.pdf)



Also there are *lots* of complaints about the LRR service just being none-existent, even though they're hitting coverage targets. (Don't believe the Arqiva solution allows units to mesh either, only the mobile-network based ones - but happy to be corrected)
 
I could only imagine that they will add an extra 5 mhz to B1 on 4G
Exactly, locally EE gives decent enough speeds for me but I know what's acceptable for me might not be acceptable elsewhere in the country likewise I know there's places elsewhere which has lighting fast Three coverage but locally here's that not the case.

Hence my hopes that once 3G is retired that the spectrum is used to improve both coverage and speeds but generally coverage for 4G and 5G as ASDA used to say Every Little Helps....
 
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So what was ASDA's slogan? Anyway you get the general idea :)
Tesco
ASDA

That's ASDA price! with 2 pats to the back right pocket.
See, the brainwashing worked on me. 😁
 
The fact that you have no time to read what he has to say tells me that we shouldn’t waste any time on you. That is incredibly disrespectful to the intelligence of the people of this forum.

Believe me your views do not reflect what the vast majority of this forum does. I am detecting some intense nimby vibes from you.
Talking of Fibre and Telegraph Poles, look what turned up on my Edge browser...


Just a example of what happens when NIMBYs prevent essential infrastructure work from being carried out to upgrade their area.
 
Talking of Fibre and Telegraph Poles, look what turned up on my Edge browser...


Just a example of what happens when NIMBYs prevent essential infrastructure work from being carried out to upgrade their area.
Just deserts. (y) 😊
 
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Looking forward to seeing it. I have yet to experience any difference at all.
As promised, a screenshot of Band 28 and Band 20 from the same Three macro site.

This is deep inside a metal building.

Interesting the RSRQ on band 20 is slightly better but the power received on 28 is higher.

Screenshot_2023-09-22-09-50-51-447_com.qtrun.QuickTest.webp
 
Just deserts. (y) 😊
Broadband deserts indeed.

It will become an issue in 10 or 15 years, when Openreach will be saying to landlords and householders: "which do you prefer: that we drill some holes / erect some poles to install fibre, or that you lose your connection entirely?"

(This will be at the point that the FTTC cabinets are being powered off and removed, and LLU/ADSL withdrawn as local exchanges are decommissioned)
 
Broadband deserts indeed.

It will become an issue in 10 or 15 years, when Openreach will be saying to landlords and householders: "which do you prefer: that we drill some holes / erect some poles to install fibre, or that you lose your connection entirely?"

(This will be at the point that the FTTC cabinets are being powered off and removed, and LLU/ADSL withdrawn as local exchanges are decommissioned)
From the article about the street having no FTTP because they "protested":
‘It was a very big pole, it would be like going back in time and wires would be everywhere, it would look like a chicken run.

‘How would you like it? In this day and age, those things should go under the ground, it’s an ugly thing to put up.’
How would I like it? My street, and I think every street I've ever lived on, has telegraph poles and has had them all my life. I don't even notice them?

The telegraph pole my house is connected to does eight properties, and I was looking out of the window at it while washing up earlier and noticed that seven of them now have the "two lines", i.e. a copper line and fibre. Only my next door neighbours haven't taken up either OR or CF fibre service (both operators use the pole).

Perhaps my area is atypical because we had fairly poor VDSL speeds (40/10 max) and we have a lot of home workers, me included. But takeup seems faster and more intense than we're led to believe - FTTP service has only been available since early summer. With takeup like this, it might be sooner rather than later when copper holdouts are asked to move on.
 
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Thanks.

So is band 28 providing coverage where band 20 does not? Or is it just faster
It works, that’s all I can say and I can make a stable phone call.

EE band 20, same phone, same location, same macro cell site, the data and voice do not work.
 
The best thing that can happen in areas where upgrades are blocked is for them to lose signal. I bet that those upgrade applications won't be rejected so easily then.

@S0X
In fairness, 20 per cent of Three's rejections by my local authority are because of defects in the application paperwork.
So that's 10 per cent of Three's applications are rejected because they haven't filled the form in properly. :devilish:
 
It works, that’s all I can say and I can make a stable phone call.

EE band 20, same phone, same location, same macro cell site, the data and voice do not work.

Thanks, very interesting. Does B20 not work because it is so weak or is it congestion?
 
Thanks, very interesting. Does B20 not work because it is so weak or is it congestion?
I don’t think there is a reason for EE band 20 to not work. The mast has tons of capacity on NR and LTE.

Lack of capacity wouldn’t cause the awful voice call quality, sound dropping etc. I just think it’s on the absolute limits.
 
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