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Fast4 ignoring their own T & C s

In their mercenary quest to extort money from their customers Fast4 are selective about which of their T&C's they apply, and ignore and quote whatever suits their purpose.

This is my story :-

On 11th June I signed up to Fast4 unlimited dialup service.

Not very much later I found a very competitively priced Broadband service and signed up to that.

Feeling rather guilty I sent a very complimentary note to Fast4 and apologetically asked for my service to be terminated (circa 22nd June).

The usual inefficiencies ensued, so nothing new there then, eventually received a note outlining a three month minimum period supposedly entered into by myself.

When I drew their attention to their advert which said (and still says), "There are no long contracts, the service is on a month by month basis" and their Terms and Conditions which say "this minimum period forms part of the agreement for any special offers that are advertised on the website and indicated as such an offer" the advertised service however was NOT indicated as "such an offer" ; their response was that "Our FAQ also states this clearly before you sign-up. If you wish to make a formal complaint this must be done in writing".

I have replied that I committed to their Terms and Conditions, not their FAQs.

I believe this to be quite explicit so no legal wriggle room there.

My next course of action is to contact OFCOM and if necessary take out a Small claims action against Fast4.


I'll keep you posted.
 
MAdMaN said:
Go to the Advertising Standards Authority too.

I think Wulnoth may be referring to the sign-up link at www.Fast4.net (highlighted) itself (ie not covered by the ASA, although it would form part of their legal commitments)


Trading Standards and Otelo's (V21 are a member) onbudsman scheme might be worth trying.
 
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Response from Fast4.

Fast4 replied to my letter of 15th drawing attention to their T&C's which stated "this minimum period forms part of the agreement for any special offers that are advertised on the website and indicated as such an offer" whereas no indication of this being a special offer was made.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fast4 :- With regards to your recent comments from our terms and conditions clause 1.6 includes contract on special offers and regular offers found on our website. A secondary section on our minimum period can also be found in clause 7.7 of our terms and conditions. This is read as follows:

7.7 Unless in your application form you ask us to wait seven (7) working days before doing so, we will activate your account as soon as your application has been approved, so you will lose your right under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 to withdraw without charge within seven working days of your application being accepted. The Regulations also require us to inform you that the Fast 4 Internet account runs for a minimum of three months.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

And my reply to them was :- Thank you for your reply which points out the confliction within your own T&C's, this however seems to be your problem, it seems high time you got a legal adviser to draft your T&C's for you and whilst they're at it they might care to correct some spelling and grammatical errors.


I would also like to repeat the last line of this offer :- "There are no long contracts, the service is on a month by month basis." and the flashing display at the bottom of your page which says "No long contracts".

You must be aware that you cannot make an offer which is at variance with your Terms and Conditions.

I am now going to contact OFCOM regarding this matter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I might also consider wholesale debunking of their T&C's to the purpose of removing everybody's responsibility to comply.

I'll keep you posted.
 
Fast4 take money earlier each month.

Sorry to hear of your problems JAYEMBEE954 , i'm afraid that peak rate support is a license to raise revenue for many ISP's.

However you are a little off topic here, you should post a new thread about your problems, giving it a title that alludes to it's content.

To continue on this topic :- Fast4 keep bringing the date that they remove funds from my card forward, I wonder if anyone else has noticed this ?

Am I being overly suspicious, my concern is that if they keep on doing this they'll eventually get an extra payment.

And where do they get the right to bring payments forward ?

My third payment was ten days earlier than the start of my account. :mad:
 
Wulnoth said:
Sorry to hear of your problems JAYEMBEE954 , i'm afraid that peak rate support is a license to raise revenue for many ISP's.

However you are a little off topic here, you should post a new thread about your problems, giving it a title that alludes to it's content.
:mad:

Hi Wulnoth
I have split the thread and started a new thrad about Wanadoo for JAYEMBEE954 good luck with getting your problems with fast4 sorted.

You can just report a post that is off topic and we will split and move them to a thread of their own.
 
Hi everyone i'll get straight into the latest exchanges.

Please don't hold me responsible for anyone getting too excited. :laugh:
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Fast4 18th Aug 2005

Our Terms and conditions have been read and conform to the guidelines set by Trading Standards. With regards to the current contract periods offered by most ISP's, we have no long contracts, meaning we don't tie you down for 12 months.
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And I replied :-

If your advert means no 12 month contracts, why doesn't it just say so ? and not :- "There are no long contracts, the service is on a month by month basis." And what does the "month by month basis." mean ?

I have great difficulty believing that your "Terms and conditions have been read and conform to the guidelines set by Trading Standards." when If you had just run them through a spellchecker you would have avoided at least 7 glaring errors, not to mention the vagueness and conflicting text.
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Fast4 19th Aug 2005

I am not able to comment on the spelling or presentation of the terms and conditions but I can suggest that they are worded correctly to constitute a legal contract between ourselves (the ISP) and you (the customer).

the term 'month by month' refers to your payment; you are not obliged to remain with ourselves - for example - a full year as you may find with other ISP's or your mobile phone for instance. This is a subscription based service which runs monthly meaning you are not tied into the service if you wish to close it - however, the inital contract is for three months as is outlined in the terms and conditions.
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And I replied :-

You appear to be saying that "No long contracts", the first part of the sentence means, no 12 month contracts which is your understanding of other ISP's contracts, and the "month by month basis" refers to the method of payment.
You don't seem to accept that anyone reading this might reasonably assume the two parts of the sentence are linked.
Further you don't seem to accept that what you want it to mean is not what any reasonable man reading your advert would understand.
When you say you are not able to comment on the spelling or presentation of the T&C's, but you suggest that they are worded correctly so as to constitute a legal contract ; I made the point about spelling not to be pedantic but to draw attention to the fact that little time and trouble had been spent drafting them, so no, you may not suggest that they constitute a legal contract.
I think it unlikely that you have a legal department, so I would ask you to escalate this matter to someone with authority over and responsibility for these legal points.
You can treat myself and your other customers with contempt, but are you really going to give these absurd answers when asked the same questions by OFCOM ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Some links to other threads regarding V21/Fast4 for anyone contemplating their service
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fast4 - ignoring their own T & C s
V21 - Termination
Cancelling V21's Fast4 No Fast escape
Cancelling v21 - What are my options ?
Fast4 - Avoid if more than a light internet user.
Fast4 - What are these people like ?
V21 - Want to cancel
Fast4 (Really V21) - 2 Complaints
Internet use Training Manual
Dialup ISP is a total...
Pull the other one !
Fast4 - Advertizing Standards Authority adjudication against.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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If T&C's have anything to do with V21 they are usually the biggest pile of poop ever! They change monthly(usually to generate more revenue). So long as the word gets out what this "company" is really like then all we can do is hope no more unfortunate soles get suckered in by their cheap prices.They make it as hard as possible to leave,if you want out then cancel your bank card(safest way). V21 will claim this is fradulant(yeah right)let THEM take you to court.....it won't happen.
 
It appears they want to add insult to injury.

The last line of Fast4's advert says "There are no long contracts, the service is on a month by month basis".

I joined on 12th June but on 22nd June I sent them a letter of cancellation.

After some delay Fast4 informed me that there was a three month minimum contract.

I have hotly contested this ever since and despite their advert and their Terms and Conditions, they have continued to debit my account.

I have now paid for the "three months minimum contract" and whilst still contesting the last two payments, I have just received the following email from them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
We hope that you are enjoying your account and finding our services of exceptional value. This is just a brief note to let you know that we will be collecting your next payment on 26 August 2005.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fast4 must be in no doubt about my desperation to get away from them, this payment will make a fourth monthly payment and it seems the only way to stop them from continuing to take money from me is to cancel my credit card.

Another small point, my first payment was on the 11th June, Fast4 then debited my card on 6th July, then 2nd August and now 26th August, so in three months they have brought the payment date forward by sixteen (16) days.


Some links to other threads regarding V21/Fast4 for anyone contemplating their service
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fast4 - ignoring their own T & C s
V21 - Termination
Cancelling V21's Fast4 No Fast escape
Cancelling v21 - What are my options ?
Fast4 - Avoid if more than a light internet user.
Fast4 - What are these people like ?
V21 - Want to cancel
Fast4 (Really V21) - 2 Complaints
Internet use Training Manual
Dialup ISP is a total...
Pull the other one !
Fast4 - Advertizing Standards Authority adjudication against.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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