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Fast4 Term Changes!

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Thanks!

Thanks!, Just updated *removed url* to show the lovely new terms and conditions, banned from Pauls forum recently lol and this thread shall be gone soon but I wish ISPreview would do a post or something to let people know about the changes and what they can do if they dont like them.

Just when I thought Fast4 could'nt sink any lower and the gadget show thing is still bemusing the hell out of me, as if they have been featured!, how did they think they would get away with making it up! and in the unlikely event the show did do a positive feature on them then maybe Santa is real!
 
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Gawd that was rude, forgot to say Merry Christmas to you too Zag5!, anyways I am gone now...
 
Fast4 have changed their terms!, maybe they have E-mailed you like they said they would but anyway here are the changes: https://secure.njpservices.com/cust_signup/includes/rev_adsl.asp
The terms and conditions state that Fast4 Internet will inform you of any such changes through email, newsletter or such other medium, as Fast4 Internet considers appropriate - the terms and conditions are available to customers on the website through the Sales page and also through the members portal and now feature a 'revisions' section so it's clear to see where and when changes occur. Email? I'd say posting changes on the website is appropriate...
So leave whilst legally you still can thanks to the changes, I mean they now have an FUP for gawds sakes! and since when has the gadget show featured them!!!

http://www.fast4.net/?su=y
Fast4 is going to be on the Gadget Show on Monday 17th I think...
 
The terms and conditions state that Fast4 Internet will inform you of any such changes through email, newsletter or such other medium, as Fast4 Internet considers appropriate - the terms and conditions are available to customers on the website through the Sales page and also through the members portal and now feature a 'revisions' section so it's clear to see where and when changes occur. Email? I'd say posting changes on the website is appropriate...

Fast4 is going to be on the Gadget Show on Monday 17th I think...

Well I was gone but oh gawd I had to come back!

We were never E-mailed about the changes to the terms and conditons (the network abuse crap, Fast4 tried to make out it had always been in them even though customers disproved this with backdated copies of the terms and conditions!!!) Despite Steve telling us customers would be kept informed BY E-MAIL! of an such changes!!!

And well the last in the present series, hopw they dont ruin my enjoyment of the show and possible stop me from every watching again, hopefully they will paint a true picture, simple googling the shoddy ISP will bring up contless ISPreview posts about the wonder that is Fast4 so if they researched at all we should be alright!
 
And well the last in the present series, hopw they dont ruin my enjoyment of the show and possible stop me from every watching again, hopefully they will paint a true picture, simple googling the shoddy ISP will bring up contless ISPreview posts about the wonder that is Fast4 so if they researched at all we should be alright!

Hi DTXT, perhaps you should Contact the gadget show before their next show to let them know what F4 are like :nod:

Merry Christmas.
 
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Fast4 have changed their terms!, maybe they have E-mailed you like they said they would but anyway here are the changes: https://secure.njpservices.com/cust_signup/includes/rev_adsl.asp

So leave whilst legally you still can thanks to the changes, I mean they now have an FUP for gawds sakes! and since when has the gadget show featured them!!!

http://www.fast4.net/?su=y
1.5 "Minimum Period" means a period of 12 months




Interesting change to the T&Cs, well spotted DTXT, it would appear that means should you leave within 12 months you'll have to pay for the remainder of the contract as well as the connection/migration fee (see the pre-existing clause 2.6 I've quoted below)

If my maths is right, that could amount to a total cost exceeding £288 even if you left in the first month! :eek:






2.6 In the event that you move from the Premises, and you wish to continue to receive the Service, we shall terminate your Service and you will be required to register again for the Service and commit to the Minimum Period at our then current rates. If termination is during the Minimum Period you will be charged for the Service up to the end of the Minimum Period.
2.7 In the event that you terminate your telephone account with BT or you change the services on the telephone line on which you currently use the Service, so that the Service is unable to operate normally, your Service will terminate and you will be liable for the Charges during the Minimum Period.
 
The terms and conditions state that Fast4 Internet will inform you of any such changes through email, newsletter or such other medium, as Fast4 Internet considers appropriate - the terms and conditions are available to customers on the website through the Sales page and also through the members portal and now feature a 'revisions' section so it's clear to see where and when changes occur. Email? I'd say posting changes on the website is appropriate...

Fast4 is going to be on the Gadget Show on Monday 17th I think...


DTXT is referring to the following commitment made in this thread http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/showthread.php?threadid=22347

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If and If we do make any amendments to our terms and conditions, these will be posted out to our customers on thier contact email. As i said we at Fast4 are trying to rebuild a relationship with users and all this feeback that we are receiving is welcomed and we can build with this.

Which, as far as I'm aware has already been broken on more than one occassion anyway, much as expected.
 
Email? I'd say posting changes on the website is appropriate...

Appropriate, sure, but not enough. Not even close.

How many people regularly check the T&Cs of their ISP (or any other company they buy a service from)?

If a company changes it's T&C's then they should proactively inform it's customers - not just post a note on a web page that they know virtually none of it's existing customers will look at.

If my bank (for example) can notify customers of changes by email (as mine does), it really shouldn't be too much to ask an ISP to use email to notify it's customers.

To say that just making a note on your website is enough is, in my opinion, shoddy behoviour at best and deceptive at worst - it is effectively trying to sneak changes through without customers it affects even noticing.
 
Well thanks for the thanks Mel but thank you!, I knew Steves comment (which turned out to be a on at least two occasions now) was there somewhere but I was too lazy to even begin looking.

Maybe I have already contacted them (if we hear nothing then I didnt lol) but either way it is somewhat premature for Fast4 to be using them on their website when they are yet to be featured, although I have lost count of the number of times the site has been redesigned due to legal reasons, whims of Steve and recently the fact that is is Christmas time.

Anyway this dramatically changes things for potential Fast4 customers now, frankly it is a different ISP (still run by the same [remove personal abuse] I know), but what with the AUP being brought in recently and now an actual FUP, something Fast4 used to love advertising they didnt have! (oh the irony!) you may aswell just go with Tiscali or whoever is cheapest for your 'unlimited broadband'

Please do correct me if I am wrong here but for exisiting customers..., does this change mean they have 14 days (from the 13th obviously) to leave without any penaltys or 14 days before this change such impact upon them?
 
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Please do correct me if I am wrong here but for exisiting customers..., does this change mean they have 14 days (from the 13th obviously) to leave without any penaltys or 14 days before this change such impact upon them?

Normally yes but this is Fast4 and with them it is always someone elses who is taking the money from them if you leave early.. Personaly if I sign a 1 month contract then I can leave after one month with no penaltys you can with any entanet supplied ISP..

Again what is the biggest problem here is people just do not read what they are signing upto and then wonder why, they then find out the small print didn't match the advertisements.
 
Again what is the biggest problem here is people just do not read what they are signing upto and then wonder why, they then find out the small print didn't match the advertisements.

Until recently the small print DID match the advertisements, it's just that they changed it without telling anyone.

They have just changed it again, and it took a forum user to point this out to Fast4's customers. Fast4 have a presence on this forum, so why did they not take 2 mins to post the news?

Note that they still make claims like this on their website:

  • Unlimited Bandwidth
  • No Speed Restrictions or Bandwidth Charges

A little misleading you have to admit?
 
Until recently the small print DID match the advertisements, it's just that they changed it without telling anyone.

They have just changed it again, and it took a forum user to point this out to Fast4's customers. Fast4 have a presence on this forum, so why did they not take 2 mins to post the news?

Note that they still make claims like this on their website:



A little misleading you have to admit?

So misleading in fact that the Advertising Standards Agency are looking into it (due to a large volume of complaints, myself included) mickey mouse companies like this should be barred from trading, I have now gone with virgin.net, they do have a traffic management system in place but at least they are honest with it and don't come up with a load of bulls**t like fast4 do, and regards to there reps having a presence it makes me laugh when they try and stick up for a company thats reputation is only slightly above something that you have to scrape off your shoe
 
...nothing's really changed...

We have always suggested to customers in the terms and conditions that if an account is to be closed within the first twelve months of service, an exit fee to cover the cost of line activation would be charged: for customers who migrate to us from another ISP, this is £20 and for those who are having their lines enabled for ADSL with us for the very first time, this is £85 (clause 1.14 under 'definitions').

When ADSL accounts are requested to be closed, the customer is charged any subscriptions due within the notice period which is 28 days - this also hasn't changed and despite the fact that the service is now advertised as a yearly contract, the customer if choosing to cancel is not charged any remaining subscriptions to make up the full year, for example.

The way accounts are closed and the amount customers are charged to cancel their account within the first twelve months has not changed now in any way from how the service was advertised when you joined Fast4: however, since a charge is due within the first twelve months for ADSL accounts, Fast4 have used the term 'contract' to ensure customers are fully aware of the penalty that may be charged on their account for an earlier cancellation - however, the actual process of cancellation has not changed, nor has the amount a customer would be charged.

The FUP and it's implementation in the members area as a 'traffic light' system is an extension of the Network Abuse Policy that has been present within the terms and conditions for some time: we've always advised customers thtat heavy bandwidth usage for continued periods of times is detrimental to the network (indeed, from the 5th October, customers abusing this found their accounts restricted for the first time as this clause was enforced) and by helping customers to identify if their accounts are being used in this fashion, the members area is being updated to show you where your usage stands in terms of network traffic as the whole.

There isn't a limit to how much a customer can use as such - the problem was and always has been the few customers who use their connections continually for video streaming, binary downloads or peer to peer downloading - the constant heavy bandwidth usage that's required for these tasks can affect all users.
 
The new BBC Iplay will be a similar strain on the network since this is used in the same way as p2p. From what I read you wil be part of a swarm feeding the file to others while you download.
 
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We have always suggested to customers in the terms and conditions that if an account is to be closed within the first twelve months of service, an exit fee to cover the cost of line activation would be charged:

Yet your website says: Easy monthly payments. No hidden extra's - misleading.


The FUP and it's implementation in the members area as a 'traffic light' system is an extension of the Network Abuse Policy that has been present within the terms and conditions for some time:

Misleading again, as it not an extension, its a change. Which was seen to be true when at least one customer went against it and got refunded his money. Because it was a change to the terms and conditions. Since Fast4 lost that battle, it seems your telling porkies Paul.

There isn't a limit to how much a customer can use as such

Misleading again, and downright untrue. If there wasnt a limit, then people wouldnt have gotten put on the naughty pipe. And peoples P2P is limited in how they use it.

Heres another place where Fast4 got caught short: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/showthread.php?t=25849

Personally, I hope fast4 go under, and that any decent staff manage to find good jobs somewhere else. Just constant untruths that come from fast4.
 
There isn't a limit to how much a customer can use as such - the problem was and always has been the few customers who use their connections continually for video streaming, binary downloads or peer to peer downloading - the constant heavy bandwidth usage that's required for these tasks can affect all users.


Surely this isn't the fault of customers, it is simply because you ( falsely ) advertise a service that isn't really available.


As in; * Unlimited Bandwidth
* No Speed Restrictions or Bandwidth Charges
:rolleyes:

Like others, I am sick of reading all of this crap from this outfit, I too wish they would do the sensible thing and let it go under.
 
Personally, I hope fast4 go under, and that any decent staff manage to find good jobs somewhere else. Just constant untruths that come from fast4.

Hi old dude.

I hate getting drawn into these (seemingly) constant debates about whether or not Fast4 have changed their Ts & Cs.

As a Fast4 customer I'm not sure I can decide - when I signed up (migrating in) I understood that if I left before 12 months had elapsed I'd need to fork put 20 quid. The latest updates to the Ts & Cs don't change this, they just state it in a different way (that is perhaps clearer).

As for the debate on FUPs and traffic management - that's not clear to me either. It is perhaps more of a judgement about what people expect from a broadband service. Since the debate seems to centre around constancy and volume of network traffic, and involves (from Fast4's own statement's) less than 1% of the customer base, perhaps it is the case that a few people are expecting to make use of a "home-level" product for "business-level" purposes. In that case it's down to Fast4 to identify these people and help them to better undertand how to use the service in conjunction with all other customers. It appears that that is what Fast4 are now trying to do.

I think your personal view (which I respect as your right) that Fast4 should fold is a bit over the top, especially since you are not a Fast4 customer. I also don't really expect it to happen, since if only 1% of the customer base are agrieved, it still leaves 99% content. Clearly a better business plan than trying to continually support the unreasonable few - at the expense of the majority - which is what was happening earlier this year.
 
The way accounts are closed and the amount customers are charged to cancel their account within the first twelve months has not changed now in any way from how the service was advertised when you joined Fast4: however, since a charge is due within the first twelve months for ADSL accounts, Fast4 have used the term 'contract' to ensure customers are fully aware of the penalty that may be charged on their account for an earlier cancellation - however, the actual process of cancellation has not changed, nor has the amount a customer would be charged.

Your own terms and conditions state in several clauses that if you terminate you will be liable for payment to the value of the full term of the contract (the remainder of the Minimum Period).

Anyone agreeing to that contract could be charged for the full 12 month minimum period as well as the £85/20 connection fee (and wasn't there something about modem fees too). If this is not your employer's current intention, then he should revise the T&Cs.
 
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