Sponsored Links

For the multi-gigabit deniers

I must admit that bit made me smile! šŸ˜‚

Maybe it's me but I would never think of dictating to anyone else how much water they should consume as a household, how much electricity they should consume or how many clothes to purchase. It's their choice.

As a result, it rubs me up the wrong way when someone tries to dictate what internet service I should consume. Especially when it's the local "Mrs Bucket" shouting people down by repeating that she can watch Eastenders on iPlayer while her little angel plays Fortnight as 'evidence' that our current internet provision is more than enough.
The headline was very one-sided, something like "Victory for residents in masts battle".

Some residents, sure, but I'd wager that a significant number were quite looking forward to their 1Gbps symmetric broadband. Now there's a coverage hole of a couple of streets in an otherwise served housing estate.

Also, every piece of tall infrastructure isn't a "mast".
 
Sponsored Links
I wonder how much consolidation between alt nets will happen this year.

For my parents and others that I know who spend little time on the internet, speed isn’t the issue. Cost and reliability. Would I recommend a 1000/1000 service to them based on speed. Not in a million years. Two family members are served fine with the base BT and Sky ISP products.

One family member has reliability issues due to being in the countryside. Stable connection first please.

I’m not interested in Virgin’s top package due to price. 500/50 will do me @Ā£23pm. I have a lot on the network with no issues and buffer bloat under control.
 
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what consumers want because the providers are dictating what speeds are available.

Speed does intrigue people. It's the main selling point of 5G, the main reason Virgin Media keeps calling their broadband Fibre Broadband as fibre = speed in the minds of consumers.

It's why Community Fibre advertises itself as the fastest residential broadband in London with its 3Gb package. It's why YouFibre launched its 2Gb and 8Gb packages. It's why EE has launched its 1.6Gb package it's why CityFibre is opening up 2Gb to the ISPs who lease their network.

If you go to any of the marketing pages they are talking speed above all else. It does sell. Even if you go to an ISP that offers 60Mb, 100Mb and 150Mb they call it Fast, Super Fast and Ultra Fast. For a lot of people the marketing works, there are people out there who bought new phones to have 5G even though the most they'll ever do with it will never need the kind of top-end speed 5G is capable of to their handset.

The advent of multi-gigabit is not going to be driven by what people need or how they use the internet on a regular day. It's going to be driven by companies competing with each other to portray themselves as the best provider and one of the ways they're attempting to do that is by offering ludicrous speed beyond what most people need.

This is no different to fast cars, £1,600 graphics cards, audiophile gear, first-class seats, designer clothing and "prosumer" products that market a professional use case which few who buy them will ever engage in.

For me, someone who'll use these multi-gig speeds to their fullest.. I love to see it. Just like how car enthusiasts love to see the latest high-performance vehicle made available to them.
 
ludicrous speed beyond what most people need.

This is no different to fast cars, £1,600 graphics cards, audiophile gear, first-class seats, designer clothing and "prosumer" products that market a professional use case which few who buy them will ever engage in.
So I take it that you never buy those ā€œwasteā€ products since you don’t need them right?

For me, someone who'll use these multi-gig speeds to their fullest.. I love to see it.
And who decides what is to the ā€œfullestā€? And why do they need to show you they are using to their fullest their connection? What if they just want to do a speed test to boast with their friends? Who are you to say that’s wrong?

You are 100% a denier. You can’t justify it for yourself so it must be all these people are wasting their money. And you also apply the same logic to everything else you can’t afford.
 
So I take it that you never buy those ā€œwasteā€ products since you don’t need them right?

I wouldn't call them waste products and I do buy many of them. I don't buy only what I need, I buy what I want, what I desire beyond just necessity.

And who decides what is to the ā€œfullestā€? And why do they need to show you they are using to their fullest their connection? What if they just want to do a speed test to boast with their friends? Who are you to say that’s wrong?

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say with my post. My post was intended for those in this thread who are downplaying multi-gig based on people's needs where to me that's irrelevant, multi-gig will become ubiquitous due to businesses' desire to compete on speed which is something they've been doing since the advent of home internet.

If someone wants to get multi-gig just to run speed tests to show off to their friends, good for them, the more people who buy into multi-gig the faster it comes my way.

I am no denier, I want faster speeds, and I want everyone to have the option to purchase 10Gb.

You are 100% a denier. You can’t justify it for yourself so it must be all these people are wasting their money. And you also apply the same logic to everything else you can’t afford.

I think you misread what I said here because I clearly said I want multi-gig and I'm happy to see it on offer. In addition, I am willing to pay for it. If I could get 10Gb to my home I would pay thousands for the installation alone. I'm still considering a 10Gb Community Fibre business line.

There's not much I can't afford and I don't apply the logic of what I can or cannot afford to others, we're all in different financial situations. It's kinda funny, all the examples I gave of products are things I already own or use, I'm just living with open eyes to the marketing and the rationale behind these products being offered, they're not meant for everyone based on their price.
 
I wouldn't call them waste products and I do buy many of them. I don't buy only what I need, I buy what I want, what I desire beyond just necessity.



I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say with my post. My post was intended for those in this thread who are downplaying multi-gig based on people's needs where to me that's irrelevant, multi-gig will become ubiquitous due to businesses' desire to compete on speed which is something they've been doing since the advent of home internet.

If someone wants to get multi-gig just to run speed tests to show off to their friends, good for them, the more people who buy into multi-gig the faster it comes my way.

I am no denier, I want faster speeds, and I want everyone to have the option to purchase 10Gb.



I think you misread what I said here because I clearly said I want multi-gig and I'm happy to see it on offer. In addition, I am willing to pay for it. If I could get 10Gb to my home I would pay thousands for the installation alone. I'm still considering a 10Gb Community Fibre business line.

There's not much I can't afford and I don't apply the logic of what I can or cannot afford to others, we're all in different financial situations. It's kinda funny, all the examples I gave of products are things I already own or use, I'm just living with open eyes to the marketing and the rationale behind these products being offered, they're not meant for everyone based on their price.
My bad then! Too many deniers around I can't even tell who's a denier anymore! :ROFLMAO:

But yes we will have multi-gigabit nationally on most ISPs sooner rather than later. And hopefully competition will keep pushing up plans to higher speeds. If you look at Community Fibre plans for instance at 12 months they have 2 speeds only: 150mb and 1Gb. And at 24 months the 1Gb plan is the second tier of options. At some point 1Gb will become the lowest speed plan, mark my words...
 
Sponsored Links
My bad then! Too many deniers around I can't even tell who's a denier anymore! :ROFLMAO:

No problem

But yes we will have multi-gigabit nationally on most ISPs sooner rather than later. And hopefully competition will keep pushing up plans to higher speeds. If you look at Community Fibre plans for instance at 12 months they have 2 speeds only: 150mb and 1Gb. And at 24 months the 1Gb plan is the second tier of options. At some point 1Gb will become the lowest speed plan, mark my words...

I hope so. When YouFibre opened up 8Gb for £99 a month I was extremely envious (I have a friend who is with them and he never lets me forget it!) so I hope Community Fibre will do something similar.
 
You don't need to agree to any terms to watch YouTube so downloading videos does not breach any license terms. I agree that downloading them like this might hurt content creators a bit, but that's as far as I go with your thinking. The VPN work around is actually a breach in the license terms which you need to agree to buy the subscription so it isn't strictly legal.
I prefer to support the content creators I care for directly either via Patreon or buying merchandise. This gives them a much higher proportion of the revenue (if not all) without making Google more rich. If you ask around most of their content creators will tell you that the YouTube ad revenue is by far the smallest part of their income. In content ads, Patreon and merchandise tend to be how most content creators make most of their income.
Ripping copyright stuff from YouTube is unlawful. Don't need to be logged in to fail foul of that.


Merch income is bursty. Patreon takes time to build and Patreon eat a fair chunk of change from the pledges. Solid amounts of watch time from videos mean the ad revenue coming in. Ad revenues can be unstable but for those who don't take sponsorships it's a major part of how they get paid for the highly watched videos.

Either way it's unlawful to download their stuff without their permission. Patron or not.
 
No problem



I hope so. When YouFibre opened up 8Gb for £99 a month I was extremely envious (I have a friend who is with them and he never lets me forget it!) so I hope Community Fibre will do something similar.
First customer on You8000 and beta tester reporting in. Unless you're planning on running some dubious SFTP or other servers with interesting content on them or mass P2P via fast drives nothing will touch the sides.

Hardest I've pushed it to is 5 Gbit/s for a few minutes while 2 fast machines drank in a game from Steam.

I can't say I get why anyone would care how fast other people's Internet is but evidently some clearly do. I don't get why folks would be sensitive about it either, it's quite a 'whatever' point. People's money to waste if they want it purely for speed test results.

I've just been enjoying querying and dismantling the evidence provided.
 
First customer on You8000 and beta tester reporting in. Unless you're planning on running some dubious SFTP or other servers with interesting content on them or mass P2P via fast drives nothing will touch the sides.

That seems a bit narrow thinking as there is certainly more than just those activities that could push the connection but I will admit most of those would be work-from-home scenarios in specialised fields.

This is how I use my internet for half the day, working from home with data in the hundreds of gigabytes regularly, the other side that I'm downloading from and uploading to is distributed and multithreaded from multiple data centres in different ASN's so I wouldn't have issues in downloading or uploading with even a 25Gb connection if the peering was good enough at my service providers level (but this is getting into the weeds).

Hardest I've pushed it to is 5 Gbit/s for a few minutes while 2 fast machines drank in a game from Steam.

I can't say I get why anyone would care how fast other people's Internet is but evidently some clearly do. I don't get why folks would be sensitive about it either, it's quite a 'whatever' point. People's money to waste if they want it purely for speed test results.

I've just been enjoying querying and dismantling the evidence provided.

I think some people are concerned because if they want a super-fast home connection (let's say 10Gb) they are worried it won't be offered if there's no consumer demand for it. That's all it comes down to, they want people to side with them so that they feel there is demand and those kinds of connections will be offered sooner.

But as I said before I believe we're already well into that multi-gig territory with even national incumbent providers now offering multi-gig plans (EE, Virgin on a trial) or preparing their networks to do so (VM, BT, CityFibre etc).
 
Ripping copyright stuff from YouTube is unlawful. Don't need to be logged in to fail foul of that.

100% incorrect. First and foremost a lot of the stuff I watch is released under the Creative Commons license. But irrespective of that downloading videos from YouTube can be 100% legal in the same way it's legal to record from your VM/Sky box anything being broadcasted for offline viewing (as long as you have a TV license) or even recording with an old school VCR. It's what you do with the content that makes it illegal. Creating a copy for offline viewing it's perfectly legal because I am not going to share it or upload it anywhere and I am only watching once and then deleting it. This is very different than with the music files use case discussed in your article. And for the record I don't use any of the named sites, I use local software on my computer.
You can get a better explanation as to why these sites were blocked from this ISPreview article: "[...] block websites if they are found to heavily facilitate internet copyright infringement, which is supported via Section 97A of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act [...]". None of what I do "heavily facilitate internet copyright infringement" since I don't upload, share or keep the content I download. And most of it is CCL anyway.
Merch income is bursty. Patreon takes time to build and Patreon eat a fair chunk of change from the pledges. Solid amounts of watch time from videos mean the ad revenue coming in. Ad revenues can be unstable but for those who don't take sponsorships it's a major part of how they get paid for the highly watched videos.
Patreon takes 8-12% (depending on the plan) plus payment processing, currency conversion and payout fees, and applicable taxes so say roughly 15%. That is far from "eating a fair chunk" and is certainly way more than what YouTube shares with creators (45%) or what you can make on merchandise. It also takes minutes to setup. Ad revenues are actually quite stable, spikes in viewingship are less common on well established channels which is what I watch. Also the revenue share (based on CPM - Cost Per Thousand) is strongly linked to CTR (click-through rate). Since I never would click on an ad, anywhere, to discourage ads, even if I watched the ad in YouTube I wouldn't impact the CTR. Viewing impressions that don't generate clicks lower the CPM which hurts content creators as they get paid less. So you really need to understand how advertising works before making blanket statements saying "you are hurting content creators".
 
Sponsored Links
100% incorrect. First and foremost a lot of the stuff I watch is released under the Creative Commons license. But irrespective of that downloading videos from YouTube can be 100% legal in the same way it's legal to record from your VM/Sky box anything being broadcasted for offline viewing (as long as you have a TV license) or even recording with an old school VCR. It's what you do with the content that makes it illegal. Creating a copy for offline viewing it's perfectly legal because I am not going to share it or upload it anywhere and I am only watching once and then deleting it. This is very different than with the music files use case discussed in your article. And for the record I don't use any of the named sites, I use local software on my computer.
You can get a better explanation as to why these sites were blocked from this ISPreview article: "[...] block websites if they are found to heavily facilitate internet copyright infringement, which is supported via Section 97A of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act [...]". None of what I do "heavily facilitate internet copyright infringement" since I don't upload, share or keep the content I download. And most of it is CCL anyway.

Patreon takes 8-12% (depending on the plan) plus payment processing, currency conversion and payout fees, and applicable taxes so say roughly 15%. That is far from "eating a fair chunk" and is certainly way more than what YouTube shares with creators (45%) or what you can make on merchandise. It also takes minutes to setup. Ad revenues are actually quite stable, spikes in viewingship are less common on well established channels which is what I watch. Also the revenue share (based on CPM - Cost Per Thousand) is strongly linked to CTR (click-through rate). Since I never would click on an ad, anywhere, to discourage ads, even if I watched the ad in YouTube I wouldn't impact the CTR. Viewing impressions that don't generate clicks lower the CPM which hurts content creators as they get paid less. So you really need to understand how advertising works before making blanket statements saying "you are hurting content creators".
I responded but thinking about it some more it's a silly discussion. Anyone can Google if they're really that interested and I'm sure we both have better things to do than argue back and forth on this.

If you're happy we'll agree to disagree and carry on with life.
 
Last edited:
That seems a bit narrow thinking as there is certainly more than just those activities that could push the connection but I will admit most of those would be work-from-home scenarios in specialised fields.

This is how I use my internet for half the day, working from home with data in the hundreds of gigabytes regularly, the other side that I'm downloading from and uploading to is distributed and multithreaded from multiple data centres in different ASN's so I wouldn't have issues in downloading or uploading with even a 25Gb connection if the peering was good enough at my service providers level (but this is getting into the weeds).
Exceptions to pretty much every statement and no idea what you're doing for a living but clearly very niche else the Internet would break so please excuse my overly broad comment 😊

Absolutely agree higher speeds are a thing, welcome them and use them which part of why I was so bemused by this thread in general. I'm a huge fan of them and have been since ADSL when as soon as it was available took uncapped ADSL then ADSL 2+.

Downside of higher speeds is that it's harder to provide 'unlimited' so some don't. For smaller ISPs especially it gets brutal fast.
 
I responded but thinking about it some more it's a silly discussion. Anyone can Google if they're really that interested and I'm sure we both have better things to do than argue back and forth on this.

If you're happy we'll agree to disagree and carry on with life.
Indeed that's the best you have said so far.
 
Indeed that's the best you have said so far.
Cool beans. Life's too short. Excuse my being a bit of a Richard as I know I have my moments. Apologies: I could've phrased the points way better, far less passive-aggressively and with more respect. Far too abrupt, no excuse. Wouldn't talk to someone in that manner in person so shouldn't via text media.
 
Cool beans. Life's too short. Excuse my being a bit of a Richard as I know I have my moments. Apologies: I could've phrased the points way better, far less passive-aggressively and with more respect. Far too abrupt, no excuse. Wouldn't talk to someone in that manner in person so shouldn't via text media.
No worries, I wasn’t too polite either. This thread is more of a rant than anything else but some interesting points also surfaced.
 
Sponsored Links
I think the real driver for increased FTTP uptake won’t be 500 vs 1000 vs 1gb downloads for the average user.

It will be symmetrical uploads.

That’s where people will feel the true benefit of jumping from a 80mb FTTC deal to a 200 or 500mb symmetrical.
 
I think the real driver for increased FTTP uptake won’t be 500 vs 1000 vs 1gb downloads for the average user.

It will be symmetrical uploads.

That’s where people will feel the true benefit of jumping from a 80mb FTTC deal to a 200 or 500mb symmetrical.
Don’t really agree with this. Aside from us geeks most people don’t care for upload speeds. The use cases are very limited as well, content creators and some specialised jobs are probably the key users aside from power/techie users that want the best they can get. But data usage continues to grow and will never stop so multi-gigabit speeds are going to be common very soon. Few years ago we reached 100GB plans on mobile. Now there are some 250GB plans which was unthinkable not too long ago. It shouldn’t be long for one network to offer a 1TB mobile plan…
 
Don’t really agree with this. Aside from us geeks most people don’t care for upload speeds. The use cases are very limited as well, content creators and some specialised jobs are probably the key users aside from power/techie users that want the best they can get. But data usage continues to grow and will never stop so multi-gigabit speeds are going to be common very soon. Few years ago we reached 100GB plans on mobile. Now there are some 250GB plans which was unthinkable not too long ago. It shouldn’t be long for one network to offer a 1TB mobile plan…
You forget that social media has made *everyone* a content creator these days.

Democratising the creation of 'content' - urgh - has meant that upload speed has become more important. Getting that tiktok or reel online *quickly* is key. Being able to share at speed is important to a lot of young people. And this is the thing, the younger consumer will want it.
 
Top
Cheap BIG ISPs for 100Mbps+
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Vodafone UK ISP Logo
Vodafone £24.00 - 26.00
150Mbps
Gift: None
NOW UK ISP Logo
NOW £24.00
100Mbps
Gift: None
Plusnet UK ISP Logo
Plusnet £25.99
145Mbps
Gift: £50 Reward Card
Large Availability | View All
Cheapest ISPs for 100Mbps+
Gigaclear UK ISP Logo
Gigaclear £17.00
200Mbps
Gift: None
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Hey! Broadband UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Youfibre UK ISP Logo
Youfibre £23.99
150Mbps
Gift: None
Large Availability | View All
Sponsored Links
The Top 15 Category Tags
  1. FTTP (6028)
  2. BT (3639)
  3. Politics (2721)
  4. Business (2440)
  5. Openreach (2405)
  6. Building Digital UK (2330)
  7. Mobile Broadband (2146)
  8. FTTC (2083)
  9. Statistics (1902)
  10. 4G (1816)
  11. Virgin Media (1764)
  12. Ofcom Regulation (1582)
  13. Fibre Optic (1467)
  14. Wireless Internet (1462)
  15. 5G (1407)
Sponsored

Copyright © 1999 to Present - ISPreview.co.uk - All Rights Reserved - Terms  ,  Privacy and Cookie Policy  ,  Links  ,  Website Rules