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FTTC dropping: four Openreach engineers and no closer to resolving the issue

Gigabit

ULTIMATE Member
We've had FTTC for a couple of months.

We'll have a period of stability and then it will drop four or five times in one day. This causes DLM to intervene and we get slowed down.

We've gone from 52Mb down to 35 (now back up to 40 thanks to G.INP). It's not crosstalk as the first engineer we said crosstalk was at a very low level indeed.

We've now had four engineers in total and each one comes, does their tests and then they leave as no fault is found. There obviously is a fault as the line keeps dropping.

Tried it through the test socket, changed modems, changed cables but no change.

We're now being dealt with by TalkTalk's CEO engineering team who at least are UK-based but this has been going on a couple of months now and I'm just fed up now.

I just felt like ranting.
 
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Do you know if the4y have changed the port in the green cab?
 
I think one of Alec's suggestions from a private convo was that he thinks a change of pair and port in the cabinet might resolve the issue. I did raise the problems with Openreach but they didn't want to help, which is unusual as they know we usually only take repeatedly unresolved issues to them.

Any chance you could post your router stats Alec? Although I realise that being a VDSL service there are limits to what good that info. can do.
 
Here you are:

Code:
adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 9373 Kbps, Downstream rate = 43214 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 9150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 41488 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.6             5.3
Attn(dB):        23.7            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.1            3.5

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6
B:              227             195
M:              1               1
T:              0               0
R:              10              10
S:              0.1748          0.6793
L:              10893           2426
D:              4               2
I:              238             206
N:              238             206
Q:              4               2
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                100             50
TxQueue:                20              10
G.INP Framing:          18              18
G.INP lookback:         20              10
RRC bits:               24              24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              58
B:              0               0
M:              2               2
T:              2               2
R:              16              16
S:              10.6667         16.0000
L:              24              16
D:              1               1
I:              32              32
N:              32              32
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             1745991572              90544
RSCorr:         492486          221
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            4768560         593634
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             28610989                1971884
RSCorr:         46              100
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         4328            476
rtx_c:          2581            692
rtx_uc:         0               13849

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               5
minEFTR:        41478           9150
errFreeBits:    48450864                18007945

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1816044083              0
Data Cells:     153920251               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            28              28
AS:             76608

                        Bearer 0
INP:            55.00           52.00
INPRein:        1.00            1.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00
OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            41578.82        9197.00

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            4.00
INPRein:        2.50            4.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           16.06
OR:             47.81           31.87
AgR:            47.81   31.87

Bitswap:        34783/34839             404/408

Total time = 21 hours 17 min 16 sec
FEC:            492486          221
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            28              28
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 16 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            130             5
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 17 min 16 sec
FEC:            492486          221
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            28              28
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 21 hours 16 min 47 sec
FEC:            492486          221
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 
Hmm some interesting stats (e.g. 0.0 upstream attn.. probably a router stats bug), but not much that slaps you in the face to say "OMG brokenz". I've seen other VDSL2 lines with stats like that and they run stable. Have you tried another VDSL modem/router at all?
 
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I have, I've had three now :(

Had quite a few comments on Kitz about how the upstream is strange because it seems to be achieving the same upstream as other lines which use both upstream bands, whereas mine only uses one.
 
Did you get this sorted? There was someone fiddling with the cabinet this morning at about 08:45.

The pattern of the drops that you get, mirrors exactly what I used to get with Three 3G. Works fine for days on end, and then lots of drop outs in a single day. It's so frustrating that you'd trade speed - or anything - for reliability; it becomes unusable.

Though I can't honestly see anything which could cause both (other than REIN and probably not even that).

So if a problem is intermittent, are we saying that the best that can be done is to order an engineer to come out maybe every other day in perpetuity until they happen to arrive when one of the drops happens; perhaps you could start charging the ISP for your time..
 
We had a lift and shift yesterday and its made no difference so it leaves the line at fault. The issue is, everytime Openreach come, run their tests and they pass. So they leave.

But the issue continues, so the line is defective and needs changing. A pair change would, I am fairly confident, solve the problem.
 
I wonder why it never did this with ADSL. Of course there could be other factors at play, but a physical cable break (intermittent) would presumably take that down, too.

Which makes me wonder if it might just be a cabinet fault. Do you know anyone else with VDSL to see if it's happening to them too?

You'd think BT would connect such cases together but evidence shows this tends not to happen.
 
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You'd think BT would connect such cases together but evidence shows this tends not to happen.

They do I have had a few cases where Openreach have said it is a wider issue linked to the equipment in the cab.

If the lift and shift was to the same card then it could be the card if you have already had multiple pair swaps.
 
You need to pay the local drunk-driver to load his car up with flammable liquids and accidentally crash into the cabinet - yes you will have no internet for a week or two, but afterwards you will have brand new equipment - which hopefully will sort out the fault.


JOKE ALERT!!!!
 
The cabinet is next to a pub.

But, it is brand new equipment.

Sadly the phone lines aren't quite so fresh as they once were ;)

So you've had four visits so far. A neighbour has had three, two involving cherry pickers involving up to four people for hours, the man hours just keep clocking up and up. By now the fibre could potentially been strung along to the centre of the village and have started to radiate outwards onto poles.
 
I saw the ISPR front page story about the car crashing into a BT box and wondered........
 
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Openreach turned up again today.

Had a fantastic engineer who did a D-side change and a lift and shift.

We'll see how the line is now.
 
Sounds promising Alec as I think that's what you wanted from the start :).
 
Now we know the physical line is good, hopefully that will solve the problem.

However, I suspect REIN might also be an issue as looking at the SNRM on the line, it is rather spikey and not very consistent.
 
Well it was all going so well and this weekend it's started dropping again :(

Re-raised with TalkTalk.
 
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