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FTTP in Loft Conversion Flat - Any Advice?

Bonanza66

Casual Member
Hi,

Apologies if this is the wrong way to post a question (first time posting here).

I have had a nightmare recently trying to get any form of internet into my apartment. I have recently moved to a 4th floor flat that is a loft conversion. I tried getting Community Fibre as I have heard good things, but it's been a complete mess from start to finish. The first engineers who came to install said it would be "impossible" to install as it's a top floor and the windows facing the street are skylights. The engineer effectively said I will "never" get internet in my apartment and told me my only option was to share with my neighbour. I don't think this is a feasible solution in the long run & I know the previous tenants in the building had internet, and as soon as I was going to go with another provider Community Fibre called me and assured me they'd be able to install so I said OK they can come by again.

Fast forward 3 more engineer visits and countless calls with the management team reassuring me time and time again that it is possible, but engineers once they arrive just say no and get frustrated because I am wasting their time. I'm now at my wits end with trying to get internet into my apartment and I'm not sure what to do. I am only offered full fibre deals because my street is serviced as that and providers have refused to offer me a copper service (I have a landline copper connection, which I suspect is what was previously used) and when I look at my address up, it says the below:
1685528466500.webp


I have an OpenReach appointment on June 7 with another provider, but I am worried I am just going to be told the same thing again and be stuck in the same limbo. I understand that there is a move to have full fibre in all households, but there seems to be no regard to survey the actual property to provide a possible solution, all seems to be done by an automatic address checker. I refuse to believe that a loft conversion flat is impossible to get internet, especially in a location where there's full fibre across the entire street and it is all that I am being offered.

It's now been 4 weeks and I don't have any internet, so any advice/thoughts would be really helpful. Has anyone else experienced this? Sorry for the long post.
 
Does the OpenSignal app show there is a good mobile network provider in your location? Does https://cellmapper.net show good reception for that network in your location? Is you mobile unlocked to allow a Pay As You Go SIM for that network to be tested for the data throughput performance?

One option might be to use a mobile router as a temporary fix until your problems are resolved.
 
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Thanks for such a quick reply! I am exploring getting a three mobile router for the time being as I am within their 5G network. I'm just unfamiliar with mobile broadband so would this be a good temporary fix (say for about a month or so) while I try to get full fibre, or should I just not bother with fibre and stick to mobile broadband?

Again really appreciate the help!!
 
Three 5G mobile broadband can be a good solution if you get a good signal. Your upload speeds will be much lower than download due to uploads relying on 4G not 5G. The main downside with 5G is latency and jitter so you may have issues with online gaming. If you don't game then you may not need FTTP installed.
 
Thank you! The signal in my flat is not great, it often switches down to 4G from 5G throughout the apartment, but I can try for now to hotspot/get a mobile broadband router for the time being, but it may not be a permanent solution.

Re FTTP, has anyone encountered a similar issue with loft conversion etc? Would they be able to run the cable through my existing copper line? Sorry if these questions are very basic, I'm just concerned that Openreach will not want to solve my problem just like Community Fibre didn't!
 
BT seem to think your address is a single-dwelling unit, has it only recently been carved up into flats? When you do an availability check do you get multiple addresses to pick from (e.g. Flat A, Flat B etc.) or is there just the street number returned?

I think the problem is getting the cable in since there's no wall to drill through. Even if they can attach the fibre drop to the wall of the flat just below your eaves, how is the cable getting into your flat?
 
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BT seem to think your address is a single-dwelling unit, has it only recently been carved up into flats? When you do an availability check do you get multiple addresses to pick from (e.g. Flat A, Flat B etc.) or is there just the street number returned?

I think the problem is getting the cable in since there's no wall to drill through. Even if they can attach the fibre drop to the wall of the flat just below your eaves, how is the cable getting into your flat?
What I shared is what comes up when I put my Flat number into the address checker as it does show up as an address (theres 4 flats in my building, and there's an entry for each one of them and the screenshot is for the entry for my flat). It was carved up to flats a long time ago as far as I am aware.

Yes, I believe this is the issue that Community Fibre had, they mentioned that they could potentially run the cable to the back of the property where there is a wall to drill through, but they didn't want to carry that installation out. I have a phone line, which I believe is what was being used previously, but I just can't seem to get any other option than full fibre when I try and get a deal because its serviceable to my address, but then upon engineer visit the cable issue comes up and I'm back to square 1. I hope that makes sense!
 
Why not try all four networks on a 5g capable phone using cheap sims?

At least you will see what is available other than Three.

I run perfectly well using Vodaphone and have done for months.

Once you have ruled out using a cell signal you can devote your efforts to how you get a wire installed. Try the cell alternatives first.
 
What I shared is what comes up when I put my Flat number into the address checker as it does show up as an address (theres 4 flats in my building, and there's an entry for each one of them and the screenshot is for the entry for my flat). It was carved up to flats a long time ago as far as I am aware.

Yes, I believe this is the issue that Community Fibre had, they mentioned that they could potentially run the cable to the back of the property where there is a wall to drill through, but they didn't want to carry that installation out. I have a phone line, which I believe is what was being used previously, but I just can't seem to get any other option than full fibre when I try and get a deal because its serviceable to my address, but then upon engineer visit the cable issue comes up and I'm back to square 1. I hope that makes sense!

Order FTTP from an Openreach provider (Aquiss come with a good reputation), if they can't install then at least they will remove the stop-sell for FTTC from your line so you can get something in.

Once there's one FTTP service in you can point at it when someone else says it can't be done, which should hopefully give you more options in future. I presume you are mid-terrace, how were they getting the cable around the back?
 
I've got FTTC @ ~45Mbps down/7Mbps up on a good day and a 4G modem running a SIM for "backup". To be honest I find myself using the 4G mobile broadband more often even though I need to use WiFi to connect to it as it gets up to 180Mbps down and 30Mbps up usually. My ping on the mobile connection while around double is still actually ok for some online gaming but that's the only thing that really has me keeping the landline at all.

You mentioned dropping to 4g moving around the flat but the idea is you get a 4g modem (maybe with external anttenae) and find the optimal spot to place it then use the WiFi as you connect around the house. I have an external antennae for the 4g modem suckered onto the inside of my ground floor window and it helps immensely with the speed. I tried 5g in my phone but tbh just using 4g is more consistent and plenty fast, so try both... if you get a good enough speed with 4g only enabled on your phone don't spend the extra on a 5g modem, just get a good 4g one.

And another bonus... rolling montly contract rather than tying into a lengthy 24month deal.
 
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Thanks so much both! I apologise if this is a silly question on my part - but for these options, do you mean using my existing phone as a hotspot or getting a 4G router off say Amazon and taking out a sim-only contract with another provider? I'm locked in with O2 for a while as I've got a phone contract, which I can hotspot from, but to try other networks, would purchasing a router be what you suggest? I'm trying to figure out my options, hence my question :)

Appreciate all of the help I've had so far, thank you so much!
I've got FTTC @ ~45Mbps down/7Mbps up on a good day and a 4G modem running a SIM for "backup". To be honest I find myself using the 4G mobile broadband more often even though I need to use WiFi to connect to it as it gets up to 180Mbps down and 30Mbps up usually. My ping on the mobile connection while around double is still actually ok for some online gaming but that's the only thing that really has me keeping the landline at all.

You mentioned dropping to 4g moving around the flat but the idea is you get a 4g modem (maybe with external anttenae) and find the optimal spot to place it then use the WiFi as you connect around the house. I have an external antennae for the 4g modem suckered onto the inside of my ground floor window and it helps immensely with the speed. I tried 5g in my phone but tbh just using 4g is more consistent and plenty fast, so try both... if you get a good enough speed with 4g only enabled on your phone don't spend the extra on a 5g modem, just get a good 4g one.

And another bonus... rolling montly contract rather than tying into a lengthy 24month deal.

Why not try all four networks on a 5g capable phone using cheap sims?

At least you will see what is available other than Three.

I run perfectly well using Vodaphone and have done for months.

Once you have ruled out using a cell signal you can devote your efforts to how you get a wire installed. Try the cell alternatives first.
 
Order FTTP from an Openreach provider (Aquiss come with a good reputation), if they can't install then at least they will remove the stop-sell for FTTC from your line so you can get something in.

Once there's one FTTP service in you can point at it when someone else says it can't be done, which should hopefully give you more options in future. I presume you are mid-terrace, how were they getting the cable around the back?
The people who previously lived here had FTTC with TalkTalk I believe, I tried asking for the same thing, but TalkTalk said because full fibre is available they can't offer the copper connection and could only push me to try full fibre (so frustrating!). Openreach are coming with TalkTalk next week, so I am assuming they'll do what you suggest once they realise the cable issue?

I don't game, I just need wifi for the usual streaming & I work from home, so if FTTC is the only option (with 4G as back up), then i'll take it for now, I just need some connection!

You're right re cable running to roof - I've had really mixed messages from engineers, two of them said it should be OK to run to the back via roof (there's at least 4 flats on my street with this set up at the moment), where as the other two shot it down and instead got frustrated at me for wasting their time, even though I was only going by what I was being told at head office/by other engineers...

Appreciate your help and suggestions so far! Thank you!
 
"but to try other networks, would purchasing a router be what you suggest? "

Try them in your existing phone. Don't buy any hardware until you have seen what signal you get from the networks you have not yet tested.

I've lost track. Is your phone 5g? If not you need borrow one?

There is no point in faffing about with wire if a cellphone signal is good enough. If it is there are plenty of folk around here to offer advice of the best value hardware as you will not want to commit the phone you use daily in your pocket.
 
"but to try other networks, would purchasing a router be what you suggest? "

Try them in your existing phone. Don't buy any hardware until you have seen what signal you get from the networks you have not yet tested.

I've lost track. Is your phone 5g? If not you need borrow one?

There is no point in faffing about with wire if a cellphone signal is good enough. If it is there are plenty of folk around here to offer advice of the best value hardware as you will not want to commit the phone you use daily in your pocket.

Sorry, I got a bit confused there. I can use 5G on my current phone & its unlocked so what your suggesting is I try out different network SIMs and signals on my phone and if I get good enough signal with one I then move to getting hardware?

Thanks, again apologies for confusion.
 
Mildenhall is one of the trial full FTTP exchanges, once the properties are passed for FTTP with Openreach based providers, that’s all you can order.
How is the building laid out, is there a central stairwell facing the pole that could be used?
As far as the cable entry goes, the CBT on the pole your flat is pinned to needs a clear line of sight view to the fixing, so it may need your service shifting to another CBT at the rear if that isn’t possible.
Without having an eyes on look around the flat and the local infrastructure it’s just guess work. Hopefully the engineer will be able to come up with a workable solution that suits you.
 
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Mildenhall is one of the trial full FTTP exchanges, once the properties are passed for FTTP with Openreach based providers, that’s all you can order.
How is the building laid out, is there a central stairwell facing the pole that could be used?
As far as the cable entry goes, the CBT on the pole your flat is pinned to needs a clear line of sight view to the fixing, so it may need your service shifting to another CBT at the rear if that isn’t possible.
Without having an eyes on look around the flat and the local infrastructure it’s just guess work. Hopefully the engineer will be able to come up with a workable solution that suits you.
Thank you! super helpful.

There is a pole right outside of my flat at the street view, and another one a bit further along the road on the same side of the road. In terms of the building layout, its a Victorian terraced conversion, so there is a central stairwell as you enter the property, so I wonder if they would be able to fix it to the ground floor and run the cable up to the property along the stairs? (sorry if this is not what you suggested & a bad idea, just brainstorming...) fingers crossed!
 
"try out different network SIMs and signals on my phone and if I get good enough signal with one I then move to getting hardware?"

Yes.

All this central stairwell and poles and same side of road is totally unnecessary if your phone finds a good signal.
 
The issue with the installer is they don't want/can't fix cables to other parts of the building that's not part of your property and in your case it seems there is no easy way to get inside your flat. No installer will want the responsability of messing with your roof. But you can (or you can hire someone to do it). So if you run a 20mm conduit for where the fibre drop will land to your flat, leave a string inside for the installer to pull the fibre then I can assure you they will be happy to install. Below is how I did on my house, obviously totally different than your flat and much easier but gives you an idea of what you could do. Just find a path to run the conduit, run it and call them again...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/fttp-hide-cable.39176/
 
The issue with the installer is they don't want/can't fix cables to other parts of the building that's not part of your property and in your case it seems there is no easy way to get inside your flat. No installer will want the responsability of messing with your roof. But you can (or you can hire someone to do it). So if you run a 20mm conduit for where the fibre drop will land to your flat, leave a string inside for the installer to pull the fibre then I can assure you they will be happy to install. Below is how I did on my house, obviously totally different than your flat and much easier but gives you an idea of what you could do. Just find a path to run the conduit, run it and call them again...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/fttp-hide-cable.39176/
Ah thanks very much, that's very helpful. I'm not sure I can do that myself, but would you suggest I find a subcontractor that can run a conduit for me? Sorry to ask a silly question...
 
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