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HELP: My Profile has been reset

I'm not a happy bunny

I live at the end of a very long line. But, by buying high quality cables, face plate etc and tweaking the router, for the past 12 months, I've been happy with a 2mb (2272+) connection.

Last week, BT's equipment (I'm told) decided to re-profile my line. My SNR target was alway 6, but it has now been changed to 10.

The result being, my 2mb speed which I have been enjoying for over a year now has been knocked down to 1.25mb (and actually syncs far lower at times without any tweaks to the router).

I contacted my ISP (Zen, who seem pre-occupied this week with moving and a SAN breakdowns to spend much time helping me) tell me that my line has been resync'ed due to the number of user disconnections.

The reason your your SNR has increased is due to intermittency on the line. Out reports are showing over 200 disconnects over the past 2 months. Below is the number of disconnects over the last 12 days. Majority of the disconnections are showing as status - User request. This generally means the router has requested the disconnections.
26-Feb-2008: 3
25-Feb-2008: 4
24-Feb-2008: 15 (this was me trying to achieve 2mb after the reset on the 23ed)
21-Feb-2008: 1
20-Feb-2008: 1
19-Feb-2008: 3
18-Feb-2008: 5
17-Feb-2008: 3
16-Feb-2008: 3
15-Feb-2008: 4
14-Feb-2008: 2
13-Feb-2008: 2

So, on average, 200 over 2 month means something like 3-4 recyncs per day which the last 12 days above shows (apart from my fiddling after the profile change). Obviously either Zen or BT think this is unacceptable.

The line does not drop or rescync on it's own due to a poor connection or noise on the line and there has been no changes to my line or equipment. All tests show same readings as they did 12 months ago.

But then I got to think, surely, I'm using a router. What about people who use modems. Surely, some people power up/reboot their computers 3-4 times a day. I can't understand how they would consider that unacceptable. I always understood 6 times an hour was the limit.

It would seem nobody has the power to do anything to get my SNR profile put back to 6. Zen tells if my line stayed connected (no length of time given) it would eventually be reset again (again, no time length given).

Can anybody give me the low down on all this and maybe offer some suggestions?

Which brings me to my problem which means I cannot avoid 3 -4 recyncs per day. My line rescync due to my computer. Everytime I start my computer up, Vista Ultimate makes my router re-sync. It's always done this. And yes, I start up or reboot my computer somewhere around 3-5 times per day. (Early morning, lunchtime, when I get home from work, installing programs/updates, after running a lot of 3D demos etc all require a reboot.)

I have tried 4 different routers (2 x Netgear DG834Gs and 2 x DG834GTs') The re-sync happens everytime with all router.

The same happens whether I am connected with a cable or wirelessly or both. I've tested this many times and niether makes any difference. As soon as I boot up, I go to the router stats and it's just that second reconnected. This happens on something like 8 out of 10 boot-ups/restarts.

The family have 4 other PCs/laptops I have an IP phone connected and an XP computer perminantly on updating weather stats. The reboots only occure with Vista Ultimate. (A laptop with Vista home basic does not do it)

I've taken the wireless card out and over the past 2 days, I've tried unconnecting the router cable before booting up. But as soon as I put the cable in to the back of my PC, it recyncs the router.

3 weeks ago, I built a brand new all singing all dancing PC with Vista Ultimate and this PC does exactly the same behaviour when I boot up. My spec: http://www.thecaretakers.net/systeminfo/SI.xml

So yes, I know I resync 3 - 4 times a day. It never bothered me before until Zen or BT reset my profile which has resulted in almost a 50% drop in my line speeds (from 2mb 2272/2440 @ 6db to 1.25mb 1140/1700 @ 10db).

Any information or advice how to get my profile back to 6 would be most appreciated.
 
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By resync do you mean that Vista forces your router to reboot? The OS should have no control over the router like that.

Sadly though, what you describe is very much the problem with ADSL MAX technology, its profiles are dynamic and can't tell the difference between a user deliberately disconnecting from the Internet and a disconnection due to poor line stability. This is why when I turn my router on in the morning I leave it on, even if I'm not using the PC because otherwise the line profiles speed will drop.

It's annoying because I'm quite energy conscious and see no other reason to have it switched on than to keep my line speed happy. Personally I think that there needs to be a higher tolerance, perhaps agreed via input from the user, as it’s not very environmentally friendly to leave these things on all the time.
 
what you describe is very much the problem with ADSL MAX technology
Which is one reason I've stuck to my old style 2mb "fixed" line. I see no point in wasting electricity, so my router gets switched on and off as required - not only when I pop out, but even if I'm working on something longish offline and know I won't need the net for an hour or so.
thecacretaker - I have seen a number of ISPs now and then stating that if you're not happy with the "Max" regrade they will put you back to the old style 2Mb fixed line. Obviously, Zen are a bit busy at the moment, so it might not be the best time to ask, but they are a decent ISP, so I think it would be worth asking if they can do that, as long as you're not bothered about the *upload* speed difference, 256k instead of 448k.

Edit...
Though, thinking about it, I don't pretend to understand it all properly, but I think the SNR of 6 rather than 10 might be a bit iffy on the old style system. Consult someone brighter than me before you decide!
 
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I never turn my router off it is on 24/7;) it may not be good but untill the USA /China / USSR. change their ways and switch off and wake up to this planet getting old [climate change as it is called] :hrmph:

These issues are a mine field:eek:
Sorry Mark but that is my feelings on the switchoff this & that?
 
Which is one reason I've stuck to my old style 2mb "fixed" line. I see no point in wasting electricity, so my router gets switched on and off as required - not only when I pop out, but even if I'm working on something longish offline and know I won't need the net for an hour or so.
thecacretaker - I have seen a number of ISPs now and then stating that if you're not happy with the "Max" regrade they will put you back to the old style 2Mb fixed line. Obviously, Zen are a bit busy at the moment, so it might not be the best time to ask, but they are a decent ISP, so I think it would be worth asking if they can do that, as long as you're not bothered about the *upload* speed difference, 256k instead of 448k.

Edit...
Though, thinking about it, I don't pretend to understand it all properly, but I think the SNR of 6 rather than 10 might be a bit iffy on the old style system. Consult someone brighter than me before you decide!

to be honest lve not found an isp who offered 2meg properly... since ADSL MAX most isps only offer 1meg or MAX my order was accepted for a 2meg line when l moved but l only got one even tho l obtain it virtually on ADSL MAX
 
By resync do you mean that Vista forces your router to reboot? The OS should have no control over the router like that.

Hmm, I'd guess it might be able to via UPnP although I can't think of any reason an OS would want to do that. Having read about the Flash UPnP exploit I now think it is a good idea to disable UPnP on the router anyway.
 
When you swapped routers, did you also swap the router's power brick? If the router's PSU is plugged in a surge protector or UPS try it direct in a socket in case the UPS is faulty.

The Netgear dg834gt firmware includes a comand to override the DS target noise margin, so you can reduce it or increase the value BT sets by as much as you need, although if you set it too low it will make your connection unstable.

You can tweak the noise margin via telnet: http:/192.168.01/?todo=setup to enable the telnet demon on the router. Then telnet 192.168.0.1

To adjust the Target noise margin :- adslctl configure --snr <percentage of actual target margin set by dslam>

eg: to reduce the target noise margin from 10 to 6 (6/10 * 100 = 60%)

adsl configure --snr 60

To increase the target noise margin for more stability use a value greater than 100% eg to increase it from 6 to 15dB:-

adsl configure --snr 250

To disable telnet:-

killall utelnetd

Or you can use the link here (although hopefully this will stop working on the next firmware update):- http://pathogenrush.blogspot.com/2007/11/dg834gt.html


The tweak does not survive a reboot, but there is a third party firmware that will do so.



I would suggest keeping an eye on your router's error stats, as I believe a high error rate is another reason BT's sytems might increase the target margin.

adslctl info --stats

will give a comprehensive set of stats.

or use this link http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=p...\");a[0].rows=40;a[0].cols=100;</script>")>&1
 
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Hi folks

Sorry I haven't replied earlier. I work in a school and they filter the word 'talk' which prevents me from viewing your wonderful website when at work grrrh

OK, the router just re-syncs, it doesn't reboot.

Thanks for the info Mel, I do already tweak the router using UrberGT firmware which saves having to re enter the sync.

I've become an expert with getting the most out of my very long phone line. I've tried almost every trick in the book. I've even added a webpage to my site telling others how to do it.
http://www.thecaretakers.net/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=146&Itemid=321

More of a dummies guide written by a dummy lol

Had a phone message left on my phone from Zen when I got home. It looks like Zen have tried to help at their end. With my tweak set to 25 (my previous setting was 30), I've managed to connect at 2048 which should give me a 1.75m line speed and the line is showing a 7db SNR.

The router would go right down to 2db at times and still remain rock solid.

I've tried booting Vista Ultimate up without the cable attached. Funny thing this morning, I left it on the desktop for 2 minutes before plugging the router in, and went to look at the stats and it showed that it had re-synced 2 minutes ago. I've not got a wireless card in this new PC yet, so there was absolutely no physical connect between the router and the PC.

I'm now wondering if the PC is omitting some interference while booting up which is causing the line to resync. But it's all new kit, new power supply everything. The chances of me building two PCs that ommit identical interference is so remote. But I will think about moving this hunk of a PC to see if it makes any difference.

Trust me to get the strangest problems! Thanks for your input peeps!
 
I must admit Mel, I didn't know about that last detailed stats. I've been running for just over an hour since resetting the router for Zen. Here are my results. How does this look to you?

ppp0 Link encap:Point-Point Protocol
inet addr:217.155.197.209 P-t-P:62.3.86.7 Mask:255.255.255.255
UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST MTU:1478 Metric:1
RX packets:17860 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:15870 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:3
RX bytes:10882511 (10.3 MiB) TX bytes:4313287 (4.1 MiB)

-e Uptime 3940.79 3710.67
Wan up 48.44 40.45
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 0
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 448 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2048 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT
Channel: Interleave
Trellis: OFF
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.9 15.0
Attn(dB): 63.5 31.5
Pwr(dBm): 17.3 11.9
Max(Kbps): 2304 856
Rate (Kbps): 2048 448
G.dmt framing
K: 65(0) 15
R: 12 16
S: 2 8
D: 8 2
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 1 1
B: 64 15
M: 2 8
T: 1 1
R: 12 16
S: 2.1846 9.0000
L: 520 128
D: 8 2
Counters
SF: 218417 218411
SFErr: 334 98
RS: 7426198 1856493
RSCorr: 19794 394
RSUnCorr: 670 0

HEC: 153 54
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 17934746 0
Data Cells: 235852 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 232 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 55 0
AS: 3713

INP: 0.73 1.00
PER: 1.91 1.96
delay: 4.36 4.50
OR: 29.29 28.44

Bitswap: 0 0

Total time = 1 hours 5 min 40 sec
SF = 226794
CRC = 334
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 232
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 5 min 40 sec
SF = 226794
CRC = 334
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 232
Latest 15 minutes time = 5 min 40 sec
SF = 20060
CRC = 147
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 118
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 102
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 65
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
SF = 0
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 30
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 24
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 26
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 21
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 47965
CRC = 29
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 4
Showtime Drop Reason: 0
Last Retrain Reason: 0

Anything obvious to you?

What is the ADSL2 framing, my line hasn't been switched to ADSL2+ has it?
 
I must admit Mel, I didn't know about that last detailed stats. I've been running for just over an hour since resetting the router for Zen. Here are my results. How does this look to you?



Anything obvious to you?

What is the ADSL2 framing, my line hasn't been switched to ADSL2+ has it?

Your error rates don't look too bad to me at the moment, but noise margins usually fall in the evening, so I'd suggest checking later on, although to be honest I've no idea how many CRC (=SFErr) or HEC errors you can have per minute before BT ups the target margin. Sky don't do anything clever like that (thank goodness) - When I was using Sky's router it was not that unusal for my connection to hit 100% Super frame errors in the evening and zero throughput (damn buggy sky firmware ) :laugh:.


Your router reports "Mode: G.DMT" which means you've a bog standard ADSL1 connection. I'm not sure why the firmware reports both ADSL2+ and DMT framming, when it is using DMT, I did look up what "K","R","S" and "D" in the DMT framming data meant once, but the only one I can recall off hand is that "D" is the "Depth" of interleaving.

http://pathogenrush.blogspot.com/2007/11/dg834gt.html
 
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Thanks Mel. I think Zen have done some magic. Had a phone message when I got in from work tonight.

Don't panic with the SNR of 2db - it's staying connected at that and doesn't seem to be showing any errors (unless I'm looking in the wrong place). The time now 8pm is about the worst the noise gets for me. The reset at the end was established from the other end, not me when the target noise was put back to 6.

I just hope it stays at 6 now. I will try to crack this Vista Ultimate problem, beats me at the moment.

ppp0 Link encap:Point-Point Protocol
inet addr:217.155.197.209 P-t-P:62.3.86.7 Mask:255.255.255.255
UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST MTU:1478 Metric:1
RX packets:197778 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:149225 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:3
RX bytes:189241895 (180.4 MiB) TX bytes:33149629 (31.6 MiB)

-e Uptime 19036.18 18500.22
Wan up 48.44 40.45
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 1
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 448 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2592 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT
Channel: Interleave
Trellis: OFF
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 2.0 15.0
Attn(dB): 63.5 31.5
Pwr(dBm): 17.3 11.9
Max(Kbps): 2848 856
Rate (Kbps): 2592 448
G.dmt framing
K: 82(0) 15
R: 14 16
S: 2 8
D: 8 2
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 1 1
B: 64 15
M: 2 8
T: 1 1
R: 12 16
S: 2.1846 9.0000
L: 520 128
D: 8 2
Counters
SF: 637966 637974
SFErr: 8855 54
RS: 21690864 5421776
RSCorr: 1072562 304
RSUnCorr: 28812 0

HEC: 5968 34
OCD: 12 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 66286580 0
Data Cells: 3303659 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 5135 0
SES: 6 0
UAS: 91 0
AS: 10845

INP: 0.73 1.00
PER: 1.91 1.96
delay: 4.36 4.50
OR: 29.29 28.44

Bitswap: 0 0

Total time = 5 hours 17 min 15 sec
SF = 1111851
CRC = 13702
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES = 5135
Latest 1 day time = 5 hours 17 min 15 sec
SF = 1111851
CRC = 13702
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES = 5135
Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 15 sec
SF = 7965
CRC = 13
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 3
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 162
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 93
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
SF = 0
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52982
CRC = 588
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 274
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 1308
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 513
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52982
CRC = 392
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 100
Showtime Drop Reason: 1
Last Retrain Reason: 1
 
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Thanks Mel. I think Zen have done some magic. Had a phone message when I got in from work tonight.

Don't panic with the SNR of 2db - it's staying connected at that and doesn't seem to be showing any errors (unless I'm looking in the wrong place). The time now 8pm is about the worst the noise gets for me. The reset at the end was established from the other end, not me when the target noise was put back to 6.

I just hope it stays at 6 now. I will try to crack this Vista Ultimate problem, beats me at the moment.

Have you tried disabling UPNP on the router?


I find my dg834n and sky dg834gt don't work reliably below about 4dB although that may in part be down to the state of my line, my dg834g works at 0dB, but that seems to calculate its noise margin differently.

You'll always get errors, some are fixable using error correction, others are not.

eg:-

SFErr: 8855 54 (=superframe errors/CRC errors)
RSUnCorr: 28812 0 (=reed Solomon Foward Error Correction, UnCorr= UnCorrected I presume)
HEC: 5968 34 (= this is a count of ATM cells with a header checksum error)

The Stats showing a count of CRC errors in 15 minute intervals are perhaps a good guide. Yours don't look excessive to me, but I'm no expert.

Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 15 sec
SF = 7965 (this is the total number of super frames sent in the last 2 mins 15 secs )
CRC = 13 This is the number of errored super frames
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 3 (no of seconds where 1 or more errors occured)
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 52923
CRC = 162
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 93
 
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If you are using the Ubergt firmware you might want to look at the alternative recomended by Ubergt's author as it is based on a more recent Netgear firmware with various bug fixes http://forum.emulesecurity.net/topic.asp?whichpage=&TOPIC_ID=1240&REPLY_ID=&SearchTerms=

Note I haven't tried either myself.


-This will probably be the last release i will do, there is a much more advanced
and better project being developed based on 1.01.32 so there is little to no
reason for me to continue to work on mine.
You can find it here: http://www.emulesecurity.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1240
 
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