Sponsored Links

Help! WiFi network design in a large house+annexe renovation

Mike_rowe

Casual Member
I'm looking for some advice please! We are in the middle of a complete renovation of a large 4 bed house with attached 2 bed annexe. floor plan below, floor space approx 280m2.
This project is requiring a complete rewire, due to start mid june.
We currently have Vodafone ISP on their fibre2 rate- this is coming in via copper but we are literally 10m from the box to getting speeds of 80mbps.
The main house (lounge and hall on floor plan below) has thick granite walls. the rest of the walls are block.
I am looking for advice about how best to achieve total coverage for the house. I've been looking at lots of options but I'm not sure what would be best bearing in mind the current work being done on the house (running new cables everywhere so no major bother to add in cat6 cable too).
The router will be located in the lounge.
My electrician was suggesting powerline. Would this be the best option to extend wifi to the whole property?
At the moment will be running the annexe and house on main internet, long term (5 years+ down the line) may run the annexe as a holiday let so would look at getting their own connection).

Any advice would be really appreciated, as the house is a complete building site, would like to make the most of it and run cables if this will be the best system but just not sure what system to use with this!


Project-CKQR.v.02-PROPOSED-1.webp
 
Absolutely run some proper ethernet cables!

I'd install an access point in the living room as you suggested and then also have cables available in the hallway / landing on the first floor as well as in the extension.

If it was me I'd install cables to every room tbh. :)

Powerline is rubbish, ignore it.
 
Run the Ethernet cables back to where your incoming internet connection or router is likely to be. Cat5e or Cat6A will be fine, ensure you get decent cables (no CCA copper covered aluminium, make sure it's solid core copper) and modules for either end of the cable.

If you want decent CCTV think about getting cables (data if you would use POE) to those positions.

If an EV charger is a possibility later, also run data near there.
 
Sponsored Links
Thank you both for quick replies! Sounds like cables is the way to go!
Forgive my ignorance- but what exactly is an access point? And if I were to run Ethernet cable eg upstairs on the landing and into the lounge in the annexe, what would I use to then deliver wifi to those areas? Wifi extension plugs?

@plunet we are installing an ev charger on the carport outside- can you explain what the data cable would be used for?

Thank you again!
 
Running ethernet to each room since you are getting a full rewire done anyway. it's alway something I would recomend. to somewhere central that you can install a network switch, if the router is in the lounge then have one installed next to that so it can connect back to the switch with all the other connections.

If you are in Central Scotland would be happy to go over ideas with you, drop me a PM

we are installing an ev charger on the carport outside- can you explain what the data cable would be used for?
Most EV chargers require hardwired connection to the router and others do have wifi but is relitivly poor especially if you have thick solid walls
 
Running ethernet to each room since you are getting a full rewire done anyway. it's alway something I would recomend. to somewhere central that you can install a network switch, if the router is in the lounge then have one installed next to that so it can connect back to the switch with all the other connections.

If you are in Central Scotland would be happy to go over ideas with you, drop me a PM


Most EV chargers require hardwired connection to the router and others do have wifi but is relitivly poor especially if you have thick solid walls
I wish I was but couldn’t be further away, down in Cornwall!
Really good to know about EV charger- we are trenching an armoured cable across to carport so will make sure a data cable is also ducted in!

So from what I understand- router in main lounge, get a network switch next to it then run cat6a cable upstairs and to the Annexe and connect these Ethernet cables to access points.

Does anyone have any recommendations for access point devices??
 
Forgive my ignorance- but what exactly is an access point?
A wifi device, most routers can run in AP (access point) mode.

And if I were to run Ethernet cable eg upstairs on the landing and into the lounge in the annexe, what would I use to then deliver wifi to those areas? Wifi extension plugs?
You'd plug an AP into them, maybe also power them over the ethernet cable,depending on eaxh model's capability.
 
Sponsored Links
Does anyone have any recommendations for access point devices??
Loads of choice here.
You can get some of those Mikrotik or Ubiquity ceiling/wall mount ones, eg
https://mikrotik.com/product/cap_ac

Or get commodity ones. You have Vodafone isp, so I expect you have the THG3000 router, you can simply get a few more of those, they're £10 on ebay and have excellent wifi. It's what I use.


 
I wish I was but couldn’t be further away, down in Cornwall!
Really good to know about EV charger- we are trenching an armoured cable across to carport so will make sure a data cable is also ducted in!

So from what I understand- router in main lounge, get a network switch next to it then run cat6a cable upstairs and to the Annexe and connect these Ethernet cables to access points.

Does anyone have any recommendations for access point devices??
Ah just a little bit away lol

Might be worth looking into a WiFi6 Mesh system like Amazon Eero, TP-Link Deco or Asus WholeHome - Although you can connect these together with wifi you are best to plug the ethernet into these to work as a backhaul

1684671049590.png


EDIT;
There is the option for some highend gear but if you are not so technical nor know someone that can help setup, I would stick to the more consumer friendly option.
 
I'm looking for some advice please! We are in the middle of a complete renovation of a large 4 bed house with attached 2 bed annexe. floor plan below, floor space approx 280m2.
This project is requiring a complete rewire, due to start mid june.
We currently have Vodafone ISP on their fibre2 rate- this is coming in via copper but we are literally 10m from the box to getting speeds of 80mbps.
The main house (lounge and hall on floor plan below) has thick granite walls. the rest of the walls are block.
I am looking for advice about how best to achieve total coverage for the house. I've been looking at lots of options but I'm not sure what would be best bearing in mind the current work being done on the house (running new cables everywhere so no major bother to add in cat6 cable too).
The router will be located in the lounge.
My electrician was suggesting powerline. Would this be the best option to extend wifi to the whole property?
At the moment will be running the annexe and house on main internet, long term (5 years+ down the line) may run the annexe as a holiday let so would look at getting their own connection).

Any advice would be really appreciated, as the house is a complete building site, would like to make the most of it and run cables if this will be the best system but just not sure what system to use with this!


View attachment 6512
Based on 14 years of experience with Devolo powerline adapters, I agree with the electrician in this case although others may disagree with us both.

Devolo Magic-2 WiFi 6 APs are very good and simple to use. Running point-to-point Ethernet is not a bad option if you plan the runs correctly and the cables are LSZH.
 
Sponsored Links
Cable - Cat6 is the easy option for now, Cat6A is harder to terminate and work with - I am sure there will be debate on which one to go for. LSZH cables generate less smoke in a fire situation.

CCA stands for 'copper clad aluminium' and is inferior, be sure what you buy is solid copper. General electrical distributors aren't as bad as they were, but often tend towards the cheapest materials as that's what their customers demand. IT suppliers are much the same price and offer wider choice (and clearer specifications).

I'd check where the BT cable entry is and run a few cables to that point.

A few cables behind your main TV will also be useful.

Consider if you'll ever want a home office, a few cables there for computer and phone.

CCTV cameras have been mentioned, if you're wiring windows for alarm contacts etc. then run network cable to wherever the main alarm system will be located.

In the context of renovations - if your property has a small driveway that will be 100% paved - bury some duct to the main road if you're digging it up anyway. If there's a route under grass for this, it's not a big deal as that can be easily done later. Likewise if you're paving the patio but may later want an outbuilding at the bottom of your garden - ducts are cheap and save a lot of time later.
 
Ah just a little bit away lol

Might be worth looking into a WiFi6 Mesh system like Amazon Eero, TP-Link Deco or Asus WholeHome - Although you can connect these together with wifi you are best to plug the ethernet into these to work as a backhaul

View attachment 6514

EDIT;
There is the option for some highend gear but if you are not so technical nor know someone that can help setup, I would stick to the more consumer friendly option.

So if I set up a system using access points connected to my main router via Ethernet cables and a switch- do I need a mesh network? Or will it all run and connect automatically as I move through the house with my device?
 
Is your home fed from a pole or underground?
how far is the router and socket from the point it enters your house?
It might be worth getting your hands on an Openreach inside/out fibre cable and fitting that before you decorate. This way you are ready when you get FTTP in your area.
 
Cable - Cat6 is the easy option for now, Cat6A is harder to terminate and work with - I am sure there will be debate on which one to go for. LSZH cables generate less smoke in a fire situation.

CCA stands for 'copper clad aluminium' and is inferior, be sure what you buy is solid copper. General electrical distributors aren't as bad as they were, but often tend towards the cheapest materials as that's what their customers demand. IT suppliers are much the same price and offer wider choice (and clearer specifications).

I'd check where the BT cable entry is and run a few cables to that point.

A few cables behind your main TV will also be useful.

Consider if you'll ever want a home office, a few cables there for computer and phone.

CCTV cameras have been mentioned, if you're wiring windows for alarm contacts etc. then run network cable to wherever the main alarm system will be located.

In the context of renovations - if your property has a small driveway that will be 100% paved - bury some duct to the main road if you're digging it up anyway. If there's a route under grass for this, it's not a big deal as that can be easily done later. Likewise if you're paving the patio but may later want an outbuilding at the bottom of your garden - ducts are cheap and save a lot of time later.
Thank you for the acronym explanation, i'm totally clueless so it's really helpful knowing what everything means!
I think if I were to set up a security system I would probably go for wireless, budget is tight and trying to save where we can.

The home office/gaming room is a good shout, will get an ethernet port in that room for that.

Regarding the driveway business- it will be paved (at some point... at this rate maybe when i win the lottery...) What are ducts for exactly for the main road? in case they bring actual fibre to the road?
 
Is your home fed from a pole or underground?
how far is the router and socket from the point it enters your house?
It might be worth getting your hands on an Openreach inside/out fibre cable and fitting that before you decorate. This way you are ready when you get FTTP in your area.
House fed from a pole through copper.
Router and socket are in the same room that it enters the house.
If i could get hands on this fibre cable, would you use it instead of cat6 for the access points?
 
Sponsored Links
Wireless is possible for cameras, but they still need a power supply. Many cameras now can take their power from an Ethernet connection, abbreviated as PoE (power over Ethernet). The network switch to which the camera is connected (or CCTV NVR network video recorder) needs to be PoE compatible.

So for the sake of a data cable you can sort both power and data for your cameras.

The same applies to some WiFi units to use PoE which avoids the clutter of a plug top power supply.
 
CCTV cameras that take power over the ethernet cable are very reasonably priced these days. I'm not familiar with the market in 2023, but three or four years ago you could get a decent weatherproof camera for less than £100 that took PoE.

You can always run the network cables to CCTV points now and leave a coil inside the wall - in case you want to use them later.

Yes - the point of duct to the road would be in case someone brings underground fibre to the area. As Openreach/BT use poles for the phone line, that's what they'll use for their fibre. If you're happy having a powered fibre modem where that line enters the property, then you don't need a fibre cable to move it elsewhere.

When you pave the front, you can consider a duct in case Virgin or one of the many small alternative networks brings underground fibre to the street. Virgin, even with coax cable TV, are pretty bad for trailing their cable along a wall and barely covering it. Even if another network wants to do it properly, they may not re-lay your paving to as good a standard as you want it. I can't speak to the chances of them turning up in your area.
 
It's worth noting that online opinions are that passive PoE are a fire hazard and only active PoE should be used with appropriately rated cables, if an electrical fire is undesired.
 
OK few good points here but I am going to summurise what I think is key and add my own bits:

First the things you should not do:

  • Do not go for powerline adapters, you will regret it. Long story short your electrical cables have limited bandwidth, your house is too big to switch your whole ethernet traffic via mains power cables. Electrician recommends what he knows but never designed a proper network
  • Do not go for wireless cameras, you will regret it. Long story short your wifi bands have limited bandwidth, the last thing you want is to have devices around the house constantly streaming video (ie lots of data to your Network Video Recorder using lots of wifi bandwidth. As others have said wired cameras not only are more reliably then can also carry 4K streams with easy. Finally CCTV cameras tend to be located in remote places where there is no power so handing a single cable to power them over PoE and allow them full gigabit speeds makes the installation easier. As these are low voltage that's some you could install yourself and save on some £££.
  • Go for Cat6, not Cat5E nor Cat6A. Cat5E is up to gigabit, Cat6/A is 10gbit. But as previosly said Cat6A is harder to terminate so it will be cheaper to use Cat6.
Now for the should do:

  • Wire your whole house in Cat6. Think big, for the size of the house you will need to buy a 305mts roll, so might as well use it all.
  • Don't just put a single cable in each location, you will need multiple for sure. For instance say for a bedroom I will put 4 cables: 1 for camera, 1 for Apple TV, 1 for TV and 1 for Wifi Access point. Don't worry if you don't have a use for all the cables initially, trust me you will use them at some point. Mind you can always buy a cheap 4-5 port switch to split 1 cable in 4 more connections but these cost money, use more electricity and eventully might fail. They also don't generally carry over PoE. It's much cheaper to use cables since putting 1 cable or 4 to a bedroom costs virtually the same time and materials. Also consider that the more devices you have on your wired network the more bandwidth left for those devices that only wireless like tables and phones. So make sure you wire all the devices that give you the option like desktop computers, smart TVs, cable boxes, etc. You will not regret it.
  • Remeber that wiring for CCTV cameras usually means putting cables in external walls or high up in ceilings or to pf the wall to capture good viewing points whereas wiring for other devices you will end up with wall RJ45 sockets where you think your devices will be.
  • Think about your design, where are you going to put your network switch? For a house your size you will be needing a 24 PoE gigabit switch. You probably won't fill up 24 ports but again your future proofing. A switch this size won't be easy to hide in the landing/reception yet alone all those network cables coming out of the wall. So think what's the best place to have such equipment. PoE switches will usually have fans so they are a bit noisy and will need a ventilated place. Hidden away in a cupbaord might not be the best place.
  • Don't forget to wire a cable from where your internet service comes to your network switch. In fact I would suggest you wire 4 for this location: 1x for Wifi Access point, 1x internet back to the switch, 2x for future use (another switch, a backup ISP, etc).
  • You certainly need a Wifi Mesh System. This means that you have a set of devices around the house (called Wifi Access Points) which work together to give a seemnless wifi service. You should buy a Wifi Mesh System that uses wired internet backhaul. This means all the Wifi Access Points connect to your network switch wired. This will make a more reliable wifi network.
  • Looking at your layout map I will recommend 4 Wifi Access Points: 1x in annex lounge, 1x main lounge, 1x kitchen/dinning room, 1x first floor landing to cover all bedrooms.
  • I recommend the Ubiquiti UniFi Access Points. These are prosumer devices which will give you flawlessly wifi. The units are PoE and are best mounted in ceilings so you will get them out of the way. A more budget option could be the TP-Link M9 Plus system that comes with 3 Wifi Access Points but you can add more later if needed. These are not PoE so you will need mains power next to them.
  • Final point is with regards to your chosen ISP. Using your own wifi mesh system will usually mean having to disable the wifi in your ISP's router since you have your own wifi system. This is possible with most ISPs but not with all. So make sure you choose an ISP that allows you to switch off wifi in the supplied ISP router. Having multiple wifi networks in your house will led to interference and weird drops in service. Also consider that some wifi mesh systems require the system to take over the router capability. In other words to replace the ISP router with the wifi system router. If your ISP does not support third party routers this will not work with some wifi systems and I will advice against a setup like this one unless you know what you are doing. Having said that the ones I recommended do not take over the ISP router capability so you can use them with most if not all ISPs.
 
Top
Cheap BIG ISPs for 100Mbps+
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Vodafone UK ISP Logo
Vodafone £24.00 - 26.00
150Mbps
Gift: None
NOW UK ISP Logo
NOW £24.00
100Mbps
Gift: None
Plusnet UK ISP Logo
Plusnet £25.99
145Mbps
Gift: £50 Reward Card
Large Availability | View All
Cheapest ISPs for 100Mbps+
Gigaclear UK ISP Logo
Gigaclear £17.00
200Mbps
Gift: None
Community Fibre UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Virgin Media UK ISP Logo
Virgin Media £22.99
132Mbps
Gift: None
Hey! Broadband UK ISP Logo
150Mbps
Gift: None
Youfibre UK ISP Logo
Youfibre £23.99
150Mbps
Gift: None
Large Availability | View All
Sponsored Links
The Top 15 Category Tags
  1. FTTP (6026)
  2. BT (3639)
  3. Politics (2721)
  4. Business (2439)
  5. Openreach (2405)
  6. Building Digital UK (2330)
  7. Mobile Broadband (2146)
  8. FTTC (2083)
  9. Statistics (1901)
  10. 4G (1816)
  11. Virgin Media (1764)
  12. Ofcom Regulation (1582)
  13. Fibre Optic (1467)
  14. Wireless Internet (1462)
  15. 5G (1407)
Sponsored

Copyright © 1999 to Present - ISPreview.co.uk - All Rights Reserved - Terms  ,  Privacy and Cookie Policy  ,  Links  ,  Website Rules