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Help! WiFi network design in a large house+annexe renovation

I'm looking for some advice please! We are in the middle of a complete renovation of a large 4 bed house with attached 2 bed annexe. floor plan below, floor space approx 280m2.
This project is requiring a complete rewire, due to start mid june.
We currently have Vodafone ISP on their fibre2 rate- this is coming in via copper but we are literally 10m from the box to getting speeds of 80mbps.
The main house (lounge and hall on floor plan below) has thick granite walls. the rest of the walls are block.
I am looking for advice about how best to achieve total coverage for the house. I've been looking at lots of options but I'm not sure what would be best bearing in mind the current work being done on the house (running new cables everywhere so no major bother to add in cat6 cable too).
The router will be located in the lounge.
My electrician was suggesting powerline. Would this be the best option to extend wifi to the whole property?
At the moment will be running the annexe and house on main internet, long term (5 years+ down the line) may run the annexe as a holiday let so would look at getting their own connection).

Any advice would be really appreciated, as the house is a complete building site, would like to make the most of it and run cables if this will be the best system but just not sure what system to use with this!


View attachment 6512
What type of construction are the internal walls?

Stud partitions or brick/block work. If they are stud partitions (ie. timber frames with plasterboard fascia) is there any internal thermal insulation like Celotex/Kingspan PIR board? (this is the stuff that has Aluminium outer jacket) or Rockwool type fibre rolls??

Answer to these questions will have a direct impact on how effective any type of Wifi solution might be and ultimately how many WAP's (Wireless Access Points) you might need. If the internal walls are uninsulated studs then 2 quality ceiling mounted WAP's downstairs and 1 ceiling mounted upstairs will be sufficient to cover the building footprint.

If you are going to put ethernet cables in then go with Cat.6a from the outset. It's not your problem whether they are easy or difficult to terminate, its your electrical contractors job and to provide you with a test certificate on completion. Likely you'd only need two or three (office, behind the infotainment system) and they would be terminated into RJ45 wall plates or socket outlets

It's fun reading posters spend other peoples budget with *** abandon though :cool:
 
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If you are going to put ethernet cables in then go with Cat.6a from the outset. It's not your problem whether they are easy or difficult to terminate, its your electrical contractors job and to provide you with a test certificate on completion. Likely you'd only need two or three (office, behind the infotainment system) and they would be terminated into RJ45 wall plates or socket outlets

It's fun reading posters spend other peoples budget with *** abandon though :cool:
I said there was spirited debate on this - my view would be that 6A in a domestic setting - especially insisting on a test certificate - would be what I'd spec for a tech multi-millionaire's house, and overkill here. The test equipment to certify this properly reaches into five figures so a domestic electrical contractor will have to get a specialist in at considerable cost. By comparison, a DIY-er can practice with a few YouTube videos and get good/neat enough with Cat6 after only wasting a few pounds worth of parts.

I didn't even bother with 6A myself a few years ago, and I do actually have a professional use-case for multi-gigabit. I went straight to fibre for anywhere that might need it, and the wireless access points are done in 6, which will be fine at 2.5G or 5GBase-T when the time comes. [I'm not a multi-millionaire and I live in London, so the distances involved are fine at 10GBase-T]

To be honest I considered upgrading the nanoHDs recently and decided to wait another 6-12 months, 400Mbit WiFi is fine for the general domestic and business admin use it gets now. I reckon I'll go to something that can saturate a 1G switch port at that time, with 2.5GBase-T PoE coming in another few years.
 
I said there was spirited debate on this - my view would be that 6A in a domestic setting - especially insisting on a test certificate - would be what I'd spec for a tech multi-millionaire's house, and overkill here. The test equipment to certify this properly reaches into five figures so a domestic electrical contractor will have to get a specialist in at considerable cost. By comparison, a DIY-er can practice with a few YouTube videos and get good/neat enough with Cat6 after only wasting a few pounds worth of parts.

I didn't even bother with 6A myself a few years ago, and I do actually have a professional use-case for multi-gigabit. I went straight to fibre for anywhere that might need it, and the wireless access points are done in 6, which will be fine at 2.5G or 5GBase-T when the time comes. [I'm not a multi-millionaire and I live in London, so the distances involved are fine at 10GBase-T]

To be honest I considered upgrading the nanoHDs recently and decided to wait another 6-12 months, 400Mbit WiFi is fine for the general domestic and business admin use it gets now. I reckon I'll go to something that can saturate a 1G switch port at that time, with 2.5GBase-T PoE coming in another few years.
Nope, Fluke cable test gear is well within the reach any general electrical contractor doing data cabling on a regular basis. (under 2k GBP)

Why does the OP need to practice or watch any YouTube videos he's got an electrical contractor involved, let them sort out the build. The OP is looking for advice on scoping the build, not pulling and terminating cables themselves.

Overbuilding.over specifying and "lets just add another cable drop here..." is real easy when spending other peoples money.

280m2 is not a large space for modern WiFi access points, as long as the internal construction materials are sane the whole area can be covered with a minimum number of WAP's and suitable support power over ethernet cabling. With a couple of dedicated hard wired sockets to support the PoE switch, infotainment kit and incoming ISP connection.
 
Nope, Fluke cable test gear is well within the reach any general electrical contractor doing data cabling on a regular basis. (under 2k GBP)

Why does the OP need to practice or watch any YouTube videos he's got an electrical contractor involved, let them sort out the build. The OP is looking for advice on scoping the build, not pulling and terminating cables themselves.

Overbuilding.over specifying and "lets just add another cable drop here..." is real easy when spending other peoples money.

280m2 is not a large space for modern WiFi access points, as long as the internal construction materials are sane the whole area can be covered with a minimum number of WAP's and suitable support power over ethernet cabling. With a couple of dedicated hard wired sockets to support the PoE switch, infotainment kit and incoming ISP connection.
I disagree. With Wifi 6E moving into 6Ghz all your calculations of how wifi spreads became wrong. And that's what you can't predict, what the future will bring. I given advice to many people on how to Cat cable their houses and more than one thank me for over provisioning cables. As I said for a house that size you will already buying the 305mts roll of Cat 6. This means you have plenty left for additional runs. I won't take the electician any extra cost and you can leave the cables hanging behind furniture if you don't want to terminate them yet. And here is my last piece of advice, when hiring contractors always researxh the materials you will use and buy them yourself, that way you get all the leftovers but also you can top quality materials. A lot of times contractors will use the cheap stuff and charge you for the premium or above. A few years ago I needed to replace my consumer unit as I ran out of space for more circuits and I needed to add a new circuit for the garden shed. I had to request 11 quotes as most electricians didn't want me to buy the consumer unit and RCBOs, guess why? Because they rip you off with the materials as well so it was not worth for them to do the job. It was a nice 1 day job which I ended up getting an electrician to work for the daily rate which was a good rate anyway.
 
Nope, Fluke cable test gear is well within the reach any general electrical contractor doing data cabling on a regular basis. (under 2k GBP)
What tool would you suggest for the job? To certify Cat6A I'd suggest that the DSX range is what you need, fine, there is a model at £8k. Even the LinkIQ range around £2k is not something your typical domestic spark is going to be interested in buying. You might find something like that in a business carrying out commercial work but I suspect their price range will not suit the OP who has expressed concerns about budget.

For my money, adding cable while the building fabric is exposed offers an excellent return on investment. Even if a whole 305m of Cat6 is installed unnecessarily that's £150 and half a day. He, or others like him may consider running the cable themselves to save money as it is much more straightforward than mains electrical wiring - you use the same cable type everywhere and run everything back to a central point.

Engaging a contractor capable of properly certifying Cat6A is what I'd call excessive on most domestic budgets. Each to their own though.
 
And here is my last piece of advice, when hiring contractors always researxh the materials you will use and buy them yourself, that way you get all the leftovers but also you can top quality materials. A lot of times contractors will use the cheap stuff and charge you for the premium or above. A few years ago I needed to replace my consumer unit as I ran out of space for more circuits and I needed to add a new circuit for the garden shed. I had to request 11 quotes as most electricians didn't want me to buy the consumer unit and RCBOs, guess why? Because they rip you off with the materials as well so it was not worth for them to do the job. It was a nice 1 day job which I ended up getting an electrician to work for the daily rate which was a good rate anyway.
I couldn't agree more. I'd far rather pay a higher labour rate and buy materials separately. 95% of tradesmen will buy the cheapest materials as that increases their profit.

On more than one occasion a tradesman has expressed afterwards that they were happier doing the job as it was easier to work with quality materials.

I'd never let a general electrical contractor buy data cable, unless it was a very large project and they were subcontracting to a data specialist or had such a department in house. In that case the specification would be such that quality materials were required.
 
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What tool would you suggest for the job? To certify Cat6A I'd suggest that the DSX range is what you need, fine, there is a model at £8k. Even the LinkIQ range around £2k is not something your typical domestic spark is going to be interested in buying. You might find something like that in a business carrying out commercial work but I suspect their price range will not suit the OP who has expressed concerns about budget.

For my money, adding cable while the building fabric is exposed offers an excellent return on investment. Even if a whole 305m of Cat6 is installed unnecessarily that's £150 and half a day. He, or others like him may consider running the cable themselves to save money as it is much more straightforward than mains electrical wiring - you use the same cable type everywhere and run everything back to a central point.

Engaging a contractor capable of properly certifying Cat6A is what I'd call excessive on most domestic budgets. Each to their own though.
Indeed. This is certinly a project that even a average DIYer can do. I have given instructions to few colleagues from work and they have been able to do it, with no prior experience in networking. Cat 6A is an overkill. Go for Cat 6, cable is cheaper, easier to terminate and you will get 10gbit speed as well.
 
I couldn't agree more. I'd far rather pay a higher labour rate and buy materials separately. 95% of tradesmen will buy the cheapest materials as that increases their profit.

On more than one occasion a tradesman has expressed afterwards that they were happier doing the job as it was easier to work with quality materials.

I'd never let a general electrical contractor buy data cable, unless it was a very large project and they were subcontracting to a data specialist or had such a department in house. In that case the specification would be such that quality materials were required.
Fluke LinkIQ kit is more than capable of validating a domestic or industrial cable install, Cat.5, 6 or 6A

150GBP reel of CAT6 becomes 450GBP on the electricains invoice, 25GBP/h apprentice labour becomes 50GBP/h, qualified electrician will be 80 to 100 to sign off the NICIEC certs, 15GBP RJ45 wall/ceiling sockets become 50GBP etc etc .... Most electrical (domestic & industrial) contractors I work with are perfectly capable of installing data cables including fiber to a high standard. The issue is always the labour and material costs mount extremely fast unless you scope the job extremely tightly.

If you think it takes half a day to install 1000ft of Cat6 you're out of your mind (apologies if that's a bit strong)

The problem you guys seem to be having is you've lost sight of the goal which is a domestic install for the next 10 years, not a data center or !your! perfect home lab setup.

A tightly targetted build including kit like Aruba AP615's (at 400GBP each) or AP25's (200GBPeach) if you're happy with cloud management , plus supporting cabling and switches is all you need.
 
Indeed. This is certinly a project that even a average DIYer can do. I have given instructions to few colleagues from work and they have been able to do it, with no prior experience in networking. Cat 6A is an overkill. Go for Cat 6, cable is cheaper, easier to terminate and you will get 10gbit speed as well.
Focus on the thread subject ...

The OP has an electrical contractor involved in the project already, why would they want to do the job themselves given the admission they are not experience in networking.
 
I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this - you are approaching things from a 'contractor must do everything' point of view and I am approaching it from a 'consider DIY to save quite a bit of money' point of view.

I'll agree that if the client wishes the contractor to pull, terminate and test all cable then it does not make sense to overspecify the drops quite so much in the name of future proofing.

However on the question of time, the marginal time cost of doubling, or quadrupling a run is minimal once there is easy access to the route. What takes time is lifting floorboards and drilling holes, especially if you're trying to keep things tidy in the hope of patching up. Half a day is probably accurate as a marginal cost for doubling all the data cable at first fix stage, with no plasterboard in a 'carcass' of a house.
 
I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this - you are approaching things from a 'contractor must do everything' point of view and I am approaching it from a 'consider DIY to save quite a bit of money' point of view.

I'll agree that if the client wishes the contractor to pull, terminate and test all cable then it does not make sense to overspecify the drops quite so much in the name of future proofing.

However on the question of time, the marginal time cost of doubling, or quadrupling a run is minimal once there is easy access to the route. What takes time is lifting floorboards and drilling holes, especially if you're trying to keep things tidy in the hope of patching up. Half a day is probably accurate as a marginal cost for doubling all the data cable at first fix stage, with no plasterboard in a 'carcass' of a house.
Not at all, I'm approaching this from a practical, pragmatic and cost effective point of view. The OP has an electrical contractor involved in the project already, so make use of them but don't over specify. If the walls need chasing to run 230V switched socket outlets then use that to run a single RJ45 STP cable, if the stud partitions haven't been plastered then fish a cable into the ceiling, The property looks like recent construction so the chance of having floor boards will be low, so cut a few apertures in the sheet floor or ceiling and fish a cable to supply the ceiling mount WAP in the floor below. The electrians will already be doing that to install LED flush down lighters or pendants anyway.

It's fun overspecifying stuff of course but there is simply no need to double or triple the amount of ethernet drops anywhere, a simple and low cost unmanaged switch can distribute to all local devices. In a domestic install there is simlpy no way a single 1Gbe link will be saturated, but next month with a switch upgrade it could run at 2.5Gbe and so on.
 
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Not at all, I'm approaching this from a practical, pragmatic and cost effective point of view. The OP has an electrical contractor involved in the project already, so make use of them but don't over specify. If the walls need chasing to run 230V switched socket outlets then use that to run a single RJ45 STP cable, if the stud partitions haven't been plastered then fish a cable into the ceiling, The property looks like recent construction so the chance of having floor boards will be low, so cut a few apertures in the sheet floor or ceiling and fish a cable to supply the ceiling mount WAP in the floor below. The electrians will already be doing that to install LED flush down lighters or pendants anyway.
You won't be able to have a ceiling mount WAP without having a PoE WAP and a PoE switch. Reminds me of this chart, you can only pick two of the three. You are going for Fast and Cheap but it won't be Good.

0*BXO-Krt9rSiopn6k.



It's fun overspecifying stuff of course but there is simply no need to double or triple the amount of ethernet drops anywhere, a simple and low cost unmanaged switch can distribute to all local devices. In a domestic install there is simlpy no way a single 1Gbe link will be saturated, but next month with a switch upgrade it could run at 2.5Gbe and so on.
Hahaha. I saturate my 10GbE MacMini daily when I copy files to my NAS. Any decent game download from Steam these days will saturate a 1Gbe connection. You can argue YOU don't need this speed. But people can decide for themselves what speed they need or want, it's their money. The fact that you don't value the speed or don't use it doesn't mean others are like you. If everyone thought like you we will still be on dial up!
 
You won't be able to have a ceiling mount WAP without having a PoE WAP and a PoE switch. Reminds me of this chart, you can only pick two of the three. You are going for Fast and Cheap but it won't be Good.

0*BXO-Krt9rSiopn6k.




Hahaha. I saturate my 10GbE MacMini daily when I copy files to my NAS. Any decent game download from Steam these days will saturate a 1Gbe connection. You can argue YOU don't need this speed. But people can decide for themselves what speed they need or want, it's their money. The fact that you don't value the speed or don't use it doesn't mean others are like you. If everyone thought like you we will still be on dial up!
It's fair to assume that if i'm specifying ceiling mount WAP's then a PoE switch to power them is mandatory and it would be intelligently located. You likely misunderstood the previous post where I mentioned an unamanged switch at the end of a ethernet drop ..

1685397989866.webp

You're talking about your own hyper-l33t homelab setup again, not answering the thread topic starter, reinforcing the impression that you have zero experience of working with a client's brief and then delivering it on budget..

Me, I've got access to 40 & 100Gbe kit, how do you get the impression I don't value speed?
 
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