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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by seenthis:
<strong>BIGT

You are not entirely correct.

We will see wholesale rental of lines from B.T. soon. This will mean you pay someone else for your line rental, or may not pay line rental at all, depending on the packages available.

This will all happen soon, hopefully sooner than later.

Regards
RW</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments here (orig post 6.7.02).

The fact of BT having to relinquish their grip on the line rental was announced on the Nat. news some while ago.

Unfortunately I'm still waiting to see any evidence of alternative line suppliers or packages as yet.

Unless anyone knows any different??

:) :cool:
 
The UK version of the "Motley Fool" website: <a href="http://www.fool.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.fool.co.uk</a> has a package advertised, with a minimum charge of just 1p (one penny) a minute, compared to BT's 4.something pence a minute.

Although I currently use Telco to make phone calls (after my inclusive BT calltime has run out) I am thinking of signing up to it, because as most of my phone calls last seconds ("I'm just leaving home, be there in five minutes" - type calls) I find the BT minimum charge of almost five pence (with VAT) a minute to be expensive and uncompetitive. I used to use One-Tel, but, as someone said earlier in this thread, the 3p connection charge makes it more expensive than BT for short calls!

The exact URL for the package is: <a href="http://www.eshopeurope.net/motley.nsf/openpage?openagent&area=debt;" target="_blank">http://www.eshopeurope.net/motley.nsf/openpage?openagent&area=debt;</a>

<small>[ 15.11.2002, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: chorleydave ]</small>
 
Coming back to the forum post’s subject, - Home Telephone Providers –

Hi Dave.
I took a quick look at the link given.
Unfortunately it falls a bit short of hopes.
If I’m reading the charges correctly.
I’m not sure where you get 1p charge instead of 4p (3.95p) BT for local peak rate.
I make it 2.4p. With peak rate national being 2.95p instead of 7.91p with BT.
UK Regional rates advertised haven’t existed for some time.
I suspect the same applies to the “North West Zone”.

While I agree that it is a lot cheaper than BT.
Tiscali is even less at 2p for peak rate Nat. & Local calls.
(2p for all UK geographic calls in fact, so evng/cheap rate Nat. is also less)
I have used them even more.
Ever since OneTel imposed a 3p surcharge.
(After my bt call allowance is used).

e-Shop Telecom is slightly less than bt for evng./cheap rate local calls, at 1.2p against 1.49p.
Plus an 0.05p saving on Nat. w/end calls.
BUT, what happens to the BT ‘Call Allowance’? (£6.40 per Qtr).

I’m betting that’s swallowed up in e-Shop’s bill, when presented to you.
Although the line rental is still payable to BT!!

Which brings us back to square one, which was - quote. –

“Unfortunately I'm still waiting to see any evidence of alternative line suppliers or packages as yet.”
”Unless anyone knows any different??”

I do now see where you got the charge of 1p compared to BTs 4p.
The e-Shop Telecom advert for their service & charges states, quote –

“E-SHOP TELECOM'S MINIMUM CALL CHARGE IS 1p
(BT's MINIMUM CALL CHARGE IS 4P) A SAVING OF 76%”

Although no fan of BT, I consider this statement to be an Outright Misrepresentation.
(Some may even say a Lie)
Seeing as how the min call charge for both is 1p for weekend local calls!

:) :cool:
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Quark:
<strong>E-SHOP TELECOM'S MINIMUM CALL CHARGE IS 1p
(BT's MINIMUM CALL CHARGE IS 4P) A SAVING OF 76%”

Although no fan of BT, I consider this statement to be an Outright Misrepresentation.
(Some may even say a Lie)
Seeing as how the min call charge for both is 1p for weekend local calls!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Quark.

I think the difference is that wih BT, even if you called your next-door neighbour for ten seconds on Sunday morning, you would still incur a minimum charge of 4 pence. With E-Shop Telecom, the charge would be one penny.

I see what you mean about the inclusive call allowance. The reason I haven't signed up, is that there doesn't seen to be any way to over-ride E-Shop's service and so enable the customer to use their BT call allowance.
 
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Hi Dave.
I had overlooked that possibility, as I was thinking in terms of charge rates per minute.
Thanks for pointing that out.
(Quote – “for ten seconds on Sunday morning, you would still incur a minimum charge of 4 pence. With E-Shop Telecom, the charge would be one penny.”)

My opinion stated is applicable when applied to the cost per minute.
Although now taking another look at e- Shop Telecom’s page. –
(quote – “E-SHOP TELECOM'S MINIMUM CALL CHARGE IS 1p
(BT's MINIMUM CALL CHARGE IS 4P) A SAVING OF 76%”)
I can see what you are saying.

And even though I think it would have been a lot clearer, & not misled me, had the advert stated “Minimum call COST ” instead of “Minimum call CHARGE ”, for comparison purposes.
I feel it is necessary, to withdraw my opinion stated about the minimum call charge given, therefore, with apologies to that site.

(Tiscali, btw, have min. call COST of 2p, as well as well as Charge per min.)

So I’m still waiting to see a good deal, all inclusive of line rental come up.
(No cable available in my area).

BTW, I’m sure I should know, and was about to ask what is this Telco you use.
But have just tried looking & found web site, & am going to take a peek, thanks.

:) :cool:
 
That e-shop price list is a little confusing.

Lower down in miniscule print, it says that those rates are exclusive of VAT. That's fair enough - their 1p + VAT minimum charge (same as The Phone Co-op, who I use for short calls) is still good compared to BT's 4.2p + VAT, and the percentage savings they compared to BT standard rate appear to be correct at a quick glance (I didn't check them all) BUT .....

At 1p PLUS VAT for local weekend calls, it is not only "no saving" (as shown) compared to BT, it is actually more expensive!
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sentup.custard:
<strong>At 1p PLUS VAT for local weekend calls, it is not only "no saving" (as shown) compared to BT, it is actually more expensive!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is the problem with many of these so-called "cheaper" telecoms companies.

I used to use One-Tel. However, the 3p (three pence) connection charge per call actually made them more expensive than BT at weekend. Additionally, during peak times, the 3p connection charge could make local short calls more expensive than BT.

It highlights the importance of reading the small print, otherwise you may end up with a nasty surprise.
 
Quote – “use bt no hidden charges”

Maybe yes, maybe no.
But next time you get a ‘BT Update’ leaflet in with your phone bill.
Just try finding, reading & interpreting, their T&C, on all their many packages.
Along with all the calls that are excluded, from your ‘Inclusive Call Time’.
Lurking amongst the small print at the back.

BT have been masters of ‘Baffle de Gook’ for years now.

‘Inclusive Call Time’ is increased as a sop; each time the line rental is frequently increased.
Instead of ever reducing the cost of that rental.

Thereby forcing customers to spend that £6.40 per qtr. in calls with bt, in addition to the rental.
Before it is worth while to able to take advantage of calls costing up to 400% less.

(2p instead of 8p per min. for peak Nat rate, in case my maths is at fault)
From one of the many other providers available.

Some may say this is a good business plan.
I suppose it is.

For bt.

But I’m just a customer, not a shareholder.

As already posted earlier on this thread, regarding this monopoly.

“The fact of BT having to relinquish their grip on the line rental was announced on the Nat. news more than 5 months ago.
Unfortunately I'm still waiting to see any evidence of alternative line suppliers or packages as yet.”

”Unless anyone knows any different??”

Is bt still sitting on making the wholesale rental of lines available?
Or doesn’t any other provider wish to take it up?
:cool:

Oops, didn’t mean to devote quite so much time, think perhaps the subject may perhaps be a little bit of a sore point with me.
I could have said simply “Rubbish”.
But that may have appeared offensive.
Just as well no mention was made of ‘0870’ or ‘non geographic’ numbers!! <img border="0" alt="[Smiletear]" title="" src="graemlins/smiletear.gif" /> :rolleyes:
 
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Quark:
<strong>But next time you get a ‘BT Update’ leaflet in with your phone bill.
Just try finding, reading & interpreting, their T&C, on all their many packages.
Along with all the calls that are excluded, from your ‘Inclusive Call Time’.
Lurking amongst the small print at the back. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have just paid my BT bill hrough online banking. Afterwards, I was looking through the "BT Update" leaflet and one thing immediately struck me about it. Unlike the leaflets that the bank occasionally send out with statements, or the leaflet that my "alternative" telecoms provider sometimes send, every single paragraph in the "BT Update" leaflet is devoted to prising yet more money out of the customer. There is not one single "human interest" article in the whole leaflet.

Additionally, has anyone else noticed how BT are after your money earlier and earlier? I have been going through some of my old bills. The bills used to be issued around the 9th of the month and we had until the last day of the month to pay them. However, the most recent bill (and the August bill) where sent as expected, with a demand (in small print) that they should be paid by the 22nd, just 11 days after they were received. Now as most people are paid monthly, eleven days is just not enough time for many with families, small incomes and no savings.

Unfortunately, I currently live in a flat, where the choice is BT or nowt. However, I plan to move early in the new year and I will certainly be looking for a place where cable is available.
 
You are certainly right about threduced payment time. My latest one is dated 10 November and says "Please make sure we receive the total now due by 17 November 2002". Perhaps they think that those of us with ISDN must be rolling in it and can cough up immediately. :D

It didn't arrive here on the 10th, of course - that was a Sunday (didn't realise their billing people worked Sundays, but never mind) and it was Tuesday 12th when it got to me. Like you, I use online banking, but if it actually took the advertised four working days for payments to go through, they'd be lucky to get it on time even if I paid it the instant it arrived.

If I did it by post and left it until next time I was passing a post box, it wouldn't even be on its way yet - I went up town on Tuesday last week (the day the bill arrived), found it when I got home, and haven't been further than the front garden since then.

I have mobility problems which are not serious enough to keep me permanently at home, but going anywhere does leave me pretty wrecked afterwards (need a couple of days rest to recover) so I don't go out, even to the local shops half a mile away, unless there's a very good reason for it, and tomorrow is my next planned day out - four days after the payment date.
 
A tip that might give you a small saving on your bill.
I don’t know if you might be aware of it.
But if you are able to pay by direct debit, the rental is a little less each qtr.

Last time bt snuck in an increase on rental again, not very long ago.
(Forget exactly how much, think was at least £1.50).
It was termed not as an increase, but an opportunity ‘to save money’
(By paying dd the rental remains the same instead of increasing!)

Although I’m a bit opposed in principle to pressure from these utilities to pay by dd.
I did so on this occasion, as it has to be paid anyway, & is not deducted until after the bill is recd.
Another factor being, that although it was made to appear it was necessary to pay monthly.
In order to receive any saving, & I certainly thought it was.
It isn’t.

Although they seem to prefer to keep quite about that fact.
I only learnt by doing a bit of interrogation on the phone.
It is possible to still continue paying quarterly when changing to D.D.

(I haven’t yet succumbed to British/ Eastern Gas yet & their £7+ penalty, if more than 10 days late paying. Sometimes the bill can be near 10 days past date of issue, when recd.
But in their terms it isn’t a penalty.
No, it’s “a saving”!)
(This of course is a wholly different subject, best kept away from.
It has nothing to do with “Home Telephone Providers”, as I will be the first to admit.
And is just used as an example).

:) :cool:

<small>[ 20.11.2002, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Quark ]</small>
 
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