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How to compare two routers ?

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A disclaimer: Less than two weeks ago I knew virtually nothing about getting internet access using LE modems/routers
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:) it

So in the last ten days I have been on a steep learning curve when trying to decide whether we could replace our adsl internet connection with an LE router. I am in the UK and have ended up with BT as they have taken over the small specialist provider we started with. BT have done us no favours, we cannot get fibre where I live and we are paying a small fortune for a connection that never goes faster than 12 Mbps. I have no loyalty to them and although we want to keep our land-line I would much rather get it from the Post Office which is much cheaper (and there is something satisfying paying them just as we did 30+ years ago when the line just carried voice !)

For a always on domestic solution I started with a Tp-Link AC1200 (Cat4) then read about 4G+ so changed to a Huawei B525 (Cat6) and finally have ended up with a Huawei B618 (Cat11) which I have linked to a new innovative Huawei hybrid mesh/powerline wifi system. It was an easy progression as each succeeding router had a noticeably improved performance.

I also want a Mifi type solution to use on our boat and have had problems choosing. I first chose a Huawei E5785 which is a cheap and cheerful Cat6 unit. I was amazed how well it performed and it gave the B618 a run for its money. I then read about the Netgear AirCards and despite being tempted by the Cat11 AC810 I managed to restrain myself and ordered a AC790 Cat6. This has a much better build quality than the Huawei and the GUI is also nicer. However it does not seem to perform anywhere near as well as the Huawei.

Because I know so little, all I can do is try to compare figures I do not know much about. I have tested each router in turn using their internal antennas and then using both a Netgear and Poynting omni directional one. I have used the same SIM card (Vodafone) and in the same position in the house. The first interestingdiscovery was that the smaller and cheaper Netgear antenna performed much better in both devices. I havebooted them up in turn and noted down the RSRP, RSRQ & SNIR figures for each. They are both very similar on each of the sequence of tests. I have then done a sequence of Speed tests using the Ookla android app and a 5GHz WiFi connection on each. I have now done 3 sequences of tests, with antenna and without and run 5speedtests on each setup. In total that is 60 separate tests and the Huawei has done better every single time and I guess it averages at least 30% faster.

I have not much time to decide and return the looser to Amazon so is there a better methodology I can use to determine which device works better for me ?
 
Tricky one to answer, there are only so many ways you can test signal reception, save for perhaps trying a different network SIM. I think the approach you've taken seems reasonable, although I'd make sure to run tests at different times of day and if you can, during different types of weather, since cell load and weather can have an impact. I'd also keep the cable link to your antenna to no more than 4-6 metres max so as to minimise signal degradation.

A few years back I had to test a bunch of different 3G kit and found a lot of variation. The things I expected to work best were rubbish and those that didn't seem like they'd bring much benefit ended up being among the best. Funnily enough you may sometimes also find that modern Smartphones can be better at 4G data performance than some dedicated routers, which almost makes me wish they'd make one with an antenna port :cool:.
 
Thanks Mark. J :)
By coincidence I thought of trying a different provider so yesterday I went and got a Sim from EE and managed to activate it over the telephone - they were extremely helpful. I have got a month's worth of data and have taken the two little routers out in the car this afternoon with the Netgear antenna on the front window. The useful Cell Info app let me identify where the local cell towers are and I have tested both devices in places with hardly any signal and also where I was being nearly cooked by the EMF. There is no question that the Huawei is significantly faster using both the 2.4 & 5 GHz wifi bands. I found one location where I was in a poor signal area and equidistant from two towers where the Netgear was marginally faster on one test but on many occasions the Huawei could be say downloading say at 25-28Mbps and the Netgear would be in the 15-18 range. They both reported very similar RSRP, RSRQ & SINR figures in each location but if one was marginally any better it was always the Huawei though. I have now done c.250 tests in 5 locations using two different carriers and the Netgear was fastest just once !

I really wanted to be able to keep the Netgear with its colour touchscreen and lovely build quality. To give an example, the Huawei TS-9 antenna ports sit close together behind a flimsy flap whereas on the Netgear they are well separated on either end of the case. They are then accessed by a sliding door that opens with a soft but precise click that just oozes quality. There is no question though that the Huawei is the keeper. Given that they probably have designed and manufactured most of the hardware in the cell towers it is hardly surprising that their consumer receivers just work so much better !
 
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Yes it's always good practice to try and use hardware from the same company that makes most of the mobile infrastructure, although that may change if the Government forces operators to throw away all their kit from Huawei.
 
"I have not much time to decide and return the looser to Amazon so is there a better methodology I can use to determine which device works better for me ?"

It is sometimes better to live with a beautiful brain, than with a beautiful face. :)

With the portable devices in boats and cars the differences tend to show up in fringe areas. Also: sometimes a better 3G signal will be 'faster' than a poor 4G signal, so having the router set to say '4G preferred' instead of '4G only' can give more useful connections.

We get about 25 Mb/s down from 3G with 100% signal strength here, double that on 4G, but the 4G signal often dips to 65%. Also there seems to be more contention on 4G in our area, so it can dip to about 30 Mb/s in the evenings, when the 3G throughput is unaffected.

Given that 25Mbs is more than twice what we got over ADSL, there's no reason for complaint.

As to landline phones, we ported our l/l number to a PAYG VOIP provider (Sipgate Basic* -the porting fee was £30) and everything now is landline free. No more line rental charges, and the VOIP is PAYG for outgoing calls only.

The only reason for keeping a 'landline' number was for the office deskphone, so that's now a Grandstream SIP/Voip phone.

Total monthly outgoings are just £22, (Three Unlimited HomeFi*), plus the occasional outgoing landline call at 1p a minute.

* Other providers are available.
 
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A few years back I had to test a bunch of different 3G kit and found a lot of variation. The things I expected to work best were rubbish and those that didn't seem like they'd bring much benefit ended up being among the best. Funnily enough you may sometimes also find that modern Smartphones can be better at 4G data performance than some dedicated routers, which almost makes me wish they'd make one with an antenna port :cool:.
I meant to reply to this point you made when I wrote my post above but forgot !
I agree and when I got into all of this just recently I first ordered a Tp-Link router. This had to be returned as it did not pick up the 4G+ that I can get here from Vodafone. Anyway, when it first arrived and I unboxed it I could not believe how light it was. I was so tempted to open it up just to see what was in it. I suppose the huge demand for mobile phones has driven the system on a chip approach and there is no no reason to have size other than to have the space to mount I/O ports.
The tiny routers I have been testing are amazing. Yesterday I parked up near a cell tx and the Huawei reported a D/L speed of 62 Mbps. I first thought it was a mistake but a second test gave a speed of 60. I have never surfed the net at anything like these speeds and although I understand the experience was bound to be dulled by high latency figures it was good fun. I am a member of a marine mapping group and I was able to download all the Admiralty charts for the entire UK coastline in under a minute !
I have a spare Three sim and I hardly dare put this tiny E5785 router up against our new main B618 in case it wins - what would I do then ?!!
 
Yes it's always good practice to try and use hardware from the same company that makes most of the mobile infrastructure, although that may change if the Government forces operators to throw away all their kit from Huawei.
It would be such a shame if that happened although quite how they could replace the hardware in the space of just a few weeks as they suggested they might does not stack up in my mind.

I have a bit of a soft spot for Huawei as I was spending half my time living and working in Shenzhen when they started to build their new headquarters and I was invited to the laying of the first brick. It was the early 2010's and how Huawei has changed since then. They were making awful cheap mobile phones and other bits of consumer electronics that were $hit quality. None of the well educated local Chinese would be seen dead with their products - they all wanted Blackberry's, Nokia and other Western brands. You could tell even then that Huawei were going places. There was quite a small expat community in SZ then as most wanted to live in HK but about 60 of us were invited once a month by Huawei to a sort of forum on Sundays. The day started at 10 with good coffee (a rarity) and then an informal talk lasting half an hour or so about their plans or new products given by someone from R&D who was either Chinese or sometimes a head hunted high flyer usually from Silicon Valley. After the talk we were split up into groups of 6 or so with one Huawei employee to each. Most expats living in SZ were from either the UK, the US or Aus/NZ but there were a few Europeans. We were asked to discuss things like the relative importance of QC, Technical performance and Design when it came to sending a product to market. Bearing in mind the Expats were mainly either teachers, bankers or businessmen I am not sure what we contributed but there were some very bright people amongst us and everything we said was taken down by some extremely well educated Huawei employee. At 1 o'clock the forums would end and we were rewarded by an amazing Chinese banquet cooked in their own kitchens by chefs they got over for the day from HK. The whole experience was most impressive and as I said it was obvious they were a company that was going places.

My apartment was on the edge of the central business district and the area was unusual as it had wide tree lined roads that were quiet. Every morning as I walked to my office I would see small groups of young guys sitting on the grass verges with laptops and it turned out they were monitoring mobile data signals and what must have been in those days (6+ years ago) 5G. There were many of these small teams everywhere and they would have all have had very high academic qualifications as a company like Huawei could attract the very best talent.

This particular dispute which the US says is about Huawei using 5G as a kind of Trojan horse to infiltrate our telecoms/data system is I suspect a smoke screen and there is something else going on. True that the company has links with the CP in Beijing but every Chinese firm has a number of local 'officials' at senior management level. Also, embedded in the very heart of Huawei's R&D and most areas of high level production management will be a small number of high flying US or UK superstars who earn a fortune and would not all take part in and hide a conspiracy surely......

I think this may be just a part of the trade war that Trump is waging on China and demonstrates how niaive and stupid that approach is. It is true that we in the west and the US in particular have reason to feel aggrieved by some of China's actions. Just like Japan did 40 years earlier China has blatantly copied a lot of proprietory technology both openly and covertly but in the case of China we have also been happy to export huge amounts of capital by buying so much consumer cr@p to keep prices down. It is also true that they have manipulated their currency and dumped large amounts of raw materials on us and damaged our native industries - but what have we done to combat all this in the past ? The answer is nothing and now you cannot close the stable door .....

It is hard to blame China as they had every need to spread wealth amongst their population and they simply put themselves first as Trump now extorts his supporters to do. The very last thing you should do is to think China is stupid and suppose they will not react if you threaten them with trade tariffs and embargoes. All that will happen is that they will quickly develop their own products to satisfy the demand from their rapidly growing and wealthier middle class. Add into the mix the fact that the Chinese have a strong sense of pride and there are feelings of superiority and a bit of a jingoist tendency lying just below the surface and you have a situation where prodding them with a stick will be counterproductive. We are just seeing this being played out now as the nearly the whole population has taken against Apple who just a year ago was the brand everyone aspired to. Now they have suddenly become a symbol of US aggression and nobody is buying the brand. Although still massively profitable this was still a huge market for Apple and it will hit them hard and as I said more importantly it will stimulate home grown design led technology and in the long term the US will be the losers. This is in danger of playing out in many areas such as aerospace where China is still a massive market for the likes of Boeing and Airbus.

In my view this is why Trump has trumped up this story about Beijing and the sister. In effect he is saying, you bite us and we will bite you back where it hurts, namely Huawei and the telecoms market which the Chinese made a priority industry in the last 5 year plan. The fact is though that the US started the trade war and I just hope someone can convince Trump and his inner circle that they will be the losers in the long run and as China keeps developing we should we working with them, albeit at arms length, and not against them.

Sorry for such a long rant but as you can probably tell it is a subject close to my heart :)
 
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"I have not much time to decide and return the looser to Amazon so is there a better methodology I can use to determine which device works better for me ?"

It is sometimes better to live with a beautiful brain, than with a beautiful face. :)

How true that is although as a happily married man for the past 30+ years I count myself fortunate to have found someone who has both attributes in abundance ;)
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Total monthly outgoings are just £22, (Three Unlimited HomeFi*), plus the occasional outgoing landline call at 1p a minute.

That is very useful info - thanks. I will also take on board what you said about the 3G & 4G settings when I am testing. I am fairly sure that both the routers allow for them to be selected individually as well as automatically. It looks like I will have to unbox the Netgear one and test them again ! FWIW I am thinking of getting a Netgear AC810 as amazon has one 'as new' for sale but I am in danger of stretching their returns policy to the limit :)
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