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Huawei swap-out in UK has become a costly and tortuous slog

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Why not just let them become depreciated with new technology?

It used to be the case that you had either a Huawei or ECI cabinet for FTTC. Just upgrade to FTTP and let the Huawei cabinet turn to dust.

Why spend hundreds of millions to swap out those cabinets for something else when the time and money can be better spent just rolling out FTTP in those areas.

The cabinets have been there for a decade or more. If they had secret Chinese spyware on them they'd done what they needed by now.
 
They made really decent phones. Was there actually ever any proof that they were dangerous?

Nope, pretty sure that Security Services looked at this and said there was no immediate threat nor could they they find any backdoors or vulnerabilities.

If it was that urgent they’d have forced providers to speed up the switch out and handed out repayable grants/loans to help.

If they were that worried about Chinese interference in infrastructure, Three wouldn’t be a thing and Hutchison couldn’t be allowed to own a significant share in some of their companies.

Wasn’t this largely the US pressuring the UK?
 
From my viewpoint, the problem is devices that are able to “phone home” and update their system software.

Increasingly telco equipment is as much a service purchase as buying one off hardware.

It’s that third party service and related outsourcing that bring increased risk and for all sorts of infrastructure sourcing a risk assessment (including political risk) is needed with a purchase.

Realistically given that the UK has stopped making much Telco and IT equipment that applies to all overseas owned vendors.
 
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They made really decent phones. Was there actually ever any proof that they were dangerous?
Yeah their phones were great. I get middle aged customers like "I used to love my Huawei, it's a shame they're not sold anymore"
 
It didn't made sense to ban Huawei based on the possibility of things going wrong in future, when there was proof that Cisco devices were being intercepted by the NSA. I'm sure the US thought that imposing a Huawei ban would have led to their respective companies getting into the cores of these huge networks, but they went with Nokia and Ericsson.

If the UK government was serious about the security of network devices placed in critical infrastructure then they'd be encouraging development of homegrown option, which as far as I can tell hasn't happened.
 
If it's hard to replace a limited number of Huawei equipment during peace time and with good supply lines, imagine how hard it would be if China decides to take Taiwan in 5 years when most of our 5G deployments was based on Huawei equipment and software... We have to do this before it becomes a real problem.

The point about Three and other Chinese investments in the UK is a good one, but if they are a problem, then the next step is to look closely at those investments, not to allow the problem to grow.

Huawei was and is more than just mobile phones. Their connections to the chinese military are known, the espionage accusations are also public (see the Nortel case). On top of this, no one wants equipment of an adversary in their network... China probably can't find any clear backdoor on Cisco equipment, but they still don't use their firewalls because of the obvious risks.

We had ~30 years of good relationships and peace between big powers, but that's changing. We seem to be walking into another cold war and the true is, Sweden/Ericsson and Finland/Nokia are aligned with the UK, and China isn't.

It's weird for someone like me that wasn't alive during the cold war, but that's how it was and probably will be again. We'll use the equipment "our side" can make, they will use theirs, and some countries will use whatever is cheaper/comes with being aligned with one of the two or three blocks.
 
Yeah their phones were great. I get middle aged customers like "I used to love my Huawei, it's a shame they're not sold anymore"
tbh if the Google Apps ban didn't exist, I might have not bought a Xiaomi

We have 3 Huawei phones of various ages that still work somewhat, a Y300 (I think, Android 4.1), old Honor 9 Lite (Android 9), Huawei P20 (Android 10, runs EMUI 12 or 13 I think).

I know you could buy a newer Honor phone but it's probably not really the same
 
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I think banning Huawei was the right choice, maybe not the consumer devices but definitely mobile antenna and broadband cabinet equipment

Removing leverage from China is always a plus, the government should’ve paid the operators the cost of doing so though
 
It didn't made sense to ban Huawei based on the possibility of things going wrong in future, when there was proof that Cisco devices were being intercepted by the NSA. I'm sure the US thought that imposing a Huawei ban would have led to their respective companies getting into the cores of these huge networks, but they went with Nokia and Ericsson.

If the UK government was serious about the security of network devices placed in critical infrastructure then they'd be encouraging development of homegrown option, which as far as I can tell hasn't happened.

The UK sees the US as a friendly country, that's why we use Cisco devices and F-35s and they use some of the equipment we develop.

Same with the US using Ericsson and Nokia... Sweden and Finland are on the US side. They've just joined NATO.

Reality is, the UK and US are not aligned with China. We don't want to use their equipment for the same reason they don't want to use Cisco/Nokia/Ericsson equipment as they have to worry about the hardware, unknown backdoors (present and future), totally innocent Cisco/Nokia/Ericsson personnel with access to sensitive areas and equipment, etc.

You've mentioned the NSA... the Snowden leaks showed that GCHQ worked with the NSA to do what the NSA couldn't do and vice-versa.

So I'd say that we are okay with a "friendly" nation having some access to our networks, but have a problem with a "non friendly" country having that access. That's we're okay with Cisco and Windows, but not with Huawei firewalls or Huawei 5G equipment carrying sensitive information.
 
Nope, pretty sure that Security Services looked at this and said there was no immediate threat nor could they they find any backdoors or vulnerabilities.

If it was that urgent they’d have forced providers to speed up the switch out and handed out repayable grants/loans to help.

If they were that worried about Chinese interference in infrastructure, Three wouldn’t be a thing and Hutchison couldn’t be allowed to own a significant share in some of their companies.

Wasn’t this largely the US pressuring the UK?
this. UK had a dedicated group working with Huawei. Germans had a group of cybersec workers looking at Huawei. All it took was for Trump to say Huawei bad and spying for them to get pummeled by the US. Only USA spying stuff is allowed :ROFLMAO:
 
Reality is, the UK and US are not aligned with China. We don't want to use their equipment for the same reason they don't want to use Cisco/Nokia/Ericsson equipment as they have to worry about the hardware, unknown backdoors (present and future),

FYI The NSA were caught backdooring Juniper and Cisco equipment. It's public knowledge.
 
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FYI The NSA were caught backdooring Juniper and Cisco equipment. It's public knowledge.

I'm aware.

But the US and the UK are allies, we don't see their access to our networks as a major issue (right now). In fact as the leaks show, we access each other's networks and data because it benefits both countries (Do I like it? No, but that's a different question).

China isn't our ally and has the incentives and means to do the same. And they will do the same because, well, everyone does it to a certain extent.
 
You’d have to be very naive to not think someone is spying on your communications, but I’d rather it’s the UK/NATO countries “thinking of the children” and preventing terrorism than someone unknown country

Russia and China are only proving the logic behind the ban correct with their actions

Why do we need it if we can do it ourselves and get rid of the worry?
 
I'd rather people who freely give our nuclear secrets to the Russians not have access to our data. But there's not a great deal I can do about it. I don't really believe Huawei did anything wrong and nobody has managed to prove they did either. It would seem to me that the snooping into everything your own people do is primarily for their own ends not some altruistic reason like protecting us. I'm slightly more inclined to believe the Chinese wouldn't care what I do with my Chinese phones but our own government (and the EU) are busy frothing at the mouth to read my whatsapps for some reason. Oh well.
 
I'd rather people who freely give our nuclear secrets to the Russians not have access to our data. But there's not a great deal I can do about it. I don't really believe Huawei did anything wrong and nobody has managed to prove they did either. It would seem to me that the snooping into everything your own people do is primarily for their own ends not some altruistic reason like protecting us. I'm slightly more inclined to believe the Chinese wouldn't care what I do with my Chinese phones but our own government (and the EU) are busy frothing at the mouth to read my whatsapps for some reason. Oh well.
China is just as guilty on imposing similar on their own citizens, but unlike the EU with WhatsApp they have actually been successful in doing so with WeChat and the great firewall

Huawei was unlucky by connection to China, but they are undeniably bound by laws in their jurisdiction to betray their customers in Europe at command of the CCP. It’s not a risk worth taking
 
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