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Is it just me or is this from Vodafone badly worded?

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I was expecting something in 2023 anyway from all of them. There is a big task ahead that needs to be smoothed out over the next 18 months.

Vodafone are now obviously ready with their VoIP infrastructure. Just hope BT are resourced up for their unpaid porting element of their old numbers.

Clearly from the "Phone extension sockets won’t work with Digital Voice" they, (and others), don't want any complexity other than a single phone plugged into the router. It still needs to be highlighted that there is no reason why the incoming line cannot be suitably isolated and existing house wiring used.
 
My personal landline usage has dropped off a cliff these last years.

Currently our “landlines” are with Sipgate on their original Basic plan which has had no ongoing rental costs for the decade or more I’ve been with them. Unfortunately they’re scrapping it at some point and this will become a paid for service.

The more I think about it the less I think I’m inclined to move them anywhere and simply cease them altogether.

There’s so many good free and bundled cost alternatives these days, that paying separately to keep a landline just seems a bit of a pointless waste. For me anyway.
 
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To me it simply comes down to this:

Will Vodafone Digital Voice work during a power cut?
In the event of a power cut, you’ll need to use your mobile phone instead to make calls.


The main reason I kept a telephone line was for emergencies and because it was free with my VM bundle. I looked at Mark's article abour VOIP service providers with interest and I did feel tempted to go for A&A as I know they are good and very reasonably priced (£1.44/month) but I would really be paying for something I don't use. And the emergency credentials of a VOIP solution aredebetable. The only person that didn't have a mobile phone in my house, my daughter, now has one as she is going to secondary school. If my internet connection is working then our mobile phones will work as well in WiFi Call mode even if cells around us are down. And even if that doesn't work I can use other PAYG VOIP services like Skype to make calls. And if my internet connection is down then any VOIP service won't make a difference so what's the point?
I can see the appeal for older people which don't like tecnology and want to use their existing telephone handset. It certainly is a lot simpler to use a lanline telephone than to use a smart phone...
 
The main reason I kept a telephone line was for emergencies and because it was free with my VM bundle.
I'm not sure there was ever any guarantee that VM phone lines would continue to work in a power cut. Do they have battery backup for their powered street cabinets?
I can see the appeal for older people which don't like tecnology and want to use their existing telephone handset. It certainly is a lot simpler to use a lanline telephone than to use a smart phone...
IMO, the telephone has one of the best user interfaces ever invented - for plain phone calls anyway.

Once they added * and # codes for services like conference calling, it became the worst :-)
 
I'm not sure there was ever any guarantee that VM phone lines would continue to work in a power cut. Do they have battery backup for their powered street cabinets?
As far as I'm aware, no. My local area does not have BBU for their kit. Their recommendation is use a mobile or their product "Backup Phone Line" which has a BBU at your premises too AFAIK.
 
Agree.

The standard corded phone is the most universal device and where we have moved on (e.g cordless) users have become used to their particular home devices and how they work (including charging).

That's why I am concerned during the change over that consumers understand their options and that new devices are not unnecessarily thrust upon them whether that is new BT DECT or forced to have single phone/base plugged into the router/ATA which are not where they want them.

Many will abandon the landline on cost (BT charges for PAYG) and change of broadband provider. Unless you subscribe to a call plan ISPs in future probably will not be interested in providing voice

My father in-law (86) appears to have grasped very well using the Sky PAYG (currently free) and his cordless phone for incoming only and using the 4G Easyphone (in its cradle) for o/g as well as out and about. My current proposal is that we will await Sky to transfer him to VoIP (more optimistic regarding porting) and then transfer him to A&A VoIP for I/C and emergency use (not just 999). However I don't want to put him into a position where his options are limited if commercials change.

As he will be staying with Sky PAYG for now I will arrange (when the time comes) to ensure his current cordless base in the lounge will still work.

It is this aspect that the major ISPs whether VoBB (centrally provisioned) or VoIP appear to be blatantly ignoring.

A lot will be changing that impacts the use of a home phone/cordless base/other.
  • ONT needs to be located somewhere with power
  • Ethernet between ONT and Router
  • Possible Ethernet between Router and ATA
  • Telephone cable between Router/ATA and phone/base
  • Different history of the home telephone cabling (hall entrance and extensions to structured house cabling)
 
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A lot will be changing that impacts the use of a home phone/cordless base/other.
  • ONT needs to be located somewhere with power
  • Ethernet between ONT and Router
You are conflating PSTN switch-off with copper switch-off (FTTP).

In the run-up to the final PSTN switch-off in December 2025, most users will continue to have a VDSL router running over copper. They'll just need a router with an ATA port on it, and plug their phone in there. Digital voice will run over copper.

Of course, some users will also be offered a migration to FTTP in that period, obviously in copper stop-sell areas. Some will get that migration afterwards, as a separate step. And a few will remain on copper for many years to come.

  • Possible Ethernet between Router and ATA
Most providers are not offering a separate ATA - they are using an ATA port on the router. (Certainly that's what Vodafone, Sky and BT do). And usually it's locked down so that you *can't* use your own ATA.

  • Telephone cable between Router/ATA and phone/base
"Plug your phone into the router instead of the wall socket" is not a big deal, but this is the only change most people will see.

  • Different history of the home telephone cabling (hall entrance and extensions to structured house cabling)
Indeed: that's why Vodafone have ducked the question by saying that digital voice doesn't work with extension wiring, when of course it can.

If their main phone was plugged into an extension, rather than into the master socket, then that will be an annoyance. It can be fixed with voice reinjection, but this requires someone who knows what they are doing.
 
You are conflating PSTN switch-off with copper switch-off (FTTP).

"Plug your phone into the router instead of the wall socket" is not a big deal, but this is the only change most people will see.

If their main phone was plugged into an extension, rather than into the master socket, then that will be an annoyance. It can be fixed with voice reinjection, but this requires someone who knows what they are doing.

Currently most conversion is on FTTP install at the customers request. However, in OR FTTP covered areas, increasingly the ISP may change them over mid-contract at the same time as the OR installation can include voice minimising customer issues. Long term OR copper areas where they stay on DSL may indeed simply be told to move their phone/device but there is no mention of house wiring use or guidance.

I'm not expecting an elderly person, disabled or other to undertake technical work but most will have a relative/friend etc that can do it for them. Reviewing the existing wiring, isolating the line and connecting the Router/ATA to the wiring is easy for a competent DIY person.

At its simplest its just a line disconnection and a simple BT431A Plug to BT431A Plug cable. In other cases its mounting an extension socket next to the NTE and pulling back the extension wiring and terminating. Other combinations apply depending on the wiring.

It is a big thing, there a millions of homes out there with a landline and the ones most affected will be those that need the help.
 

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I've been surprised at just how quiet providers have been about the switch-off actually.

I assume that changes soon and people do need to know, up until this year all I really heard was the odd advert from BT on the radio mentioning it during 2020-2022. They have always used very plan language saying the old network is being replaced etc but from discussions with many this hasn't really filtered through to a lot of people.

That said, it'll be impossible for them to ignore when they inevitably get the letter from Openreach saying they need to arrange a time for the fibre to be installed.

I do think that the lack of battery backup is going to be a problem for them though, many areas will have experience of long multi-day powercuts where POTS phone service managed to stay up and the potential loss of this going to cause some complaints/calls for some sort of workable emergency battery backup to be provided once again.
 
That said, it'll be impossible for them to ignore when they inevitably get the letter from Openreach saying they need to arrange a time for the fibre to be installed.
Only those in copper stop-sell areas will be forced from WLR to FTTP. Others will be forced from WLR to SOGEA, and that should require no installation visit at all, as long as the customer is comfortable replacing one router with another.

I agree with the need for support for the elderly to make this transition, in a similar way as was provided for the digital TV switchover. That was handled well, probably because it was centralised. For the digital phone switchover, it's left in the hands of dozens of ISPs, most of whom have been kicking it into the long grass for as long as possible. Several don't even have a SOGEA and/or digital voice service ready at all.
 
I think many providers are just hoping folks will put the landline out to pasture. They don't seem particularly fussed about it.
 
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I think many providers are just hoping folks will put the landline out to pasture. They don't seem particularly fussed about it.
True for many people, and indeed Talktalk's FTTP service is data-only; they don't seem to be concerned about losing customers, yet. But a significant minority do still care.

I should have pointed out, users are unlikely ever to receive a letter from Openreach. The user has a direct relationship only with their ISP.

It's possible that Openreach might do generic mailshots or advertising campaigns warning people of the upcoming changes. But only their ISP can tell them "your service is being switched off on date X unless you do Y"

This really needs to be done at contract renewal time. From Dec 2023, any ISP offering a two-year contract will *have* to provide digital voice - or else swallow the cost themselves of switching to digital voice mid-contract. (Or sell voiceless services only)
 
True for many people, and indeed Talktalk's FTTP service is data-only; they don't seem to be concerned about losing customers, yet. But a significant minority do still care.

I should have pointed out, users are unlikely ever to receive a letter from Openreach. The user has a direct relationship only with their ISP.

It's possible that Openreach might do generic mailshots or advertising campaigns warning people of the upcoming changes. But only their ISP can tell them "your service is being switched off on date X unless you do Y"

This really needs to be done at contract renewal time. From Dec 2023, any ISP offering a two-year contract will *have* to provide digital voice - or else swallow the cost themselves of switching to digital voice mid-contract. (Or sell voiceless services only)
I was switched to VOIP by VM half way my contract. Obviously this a different network than Openreach but I don’t see why ISPs have to wait for contract renewal. In my case VM sent me a letter and an email saying that from a specified date my current phone would stop to work and that I needed to connect my telephone to the Virgin Media router using an adapter for the line to work. They sent me adapter, did the connection and all worked fine.
 
mailshots or advertising campaigns warning people of the upcoming changes. But only their ISP can tell them "your service is being switched off on date X unless you do Y"
They might do, but all their focus to date has been with their service provider customers. There’s little in it for Openreach other than reputation and perhaps regulation, as it’s a business they clearly no longer need or want.
 
So far its been very softly softly. OR has a list of around 730 priority exchanges where it has early property reorg. Dates range until Feb 2024.

More important is the WLR retirement stop cell which is Sept 2023 and the rules that will apply. OR will have areas where copper based products can continue longer.

ISPs know that if they change to FTTP then the installation costs fall on them. So they are unlikely to do that unless there is a contract to recoup costs. Once on FTTP a change of ISP are low cost and the gaining ISP benefits.

If they change to SoGEA then they still have a cost to disconnect the E side. More importantly if they have any equipment presence in the exchange it needs to be recovered.

Currently I think the ISPs are hoping a lot of it will simply go away but the crunch is coming particularly as we are at the 50% OR FTTP, their focus is on closing the priority exchanges and take-up varies.

The attached gained my interest. It infers OR readiness to continue competing with SoGEA. It meets their need to clear exchanges, remove mainframes, recover the "E" side and centralise at central nodes.

The approach the ISPs take for broadband products will determine their voice options (none/DV)
 

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