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London Underground Cellular Service: Testing/Discussion

We are rapidly going to fall out if you go down this line of attack. I am here trying to provide insight where I can, we are doing more every day and people here are seeing those results. I know we haven't reached you yet but we will and hopefully then you might reconsider your rather immature view of this situation.

As I said, Vodafone has a 10Mbps target - and recall they have far fewer customers than us. It sounds like EE or Three are the networks for you - and if they work for you then I am very happy with that.
It’s also the fact that the way O2 operates seems so backward to me…. If you have the most customers, surely that’s the biggest income. Especially with your prices. Surely this stands you in way better stead to throw everything you have at 99% of masts like Three and EE do?
Also, why not set your target higher than 5Mbps (Vodafone’s target is double yours) and then your network would achieve even more - better for future proofing. Especially with 5G.
Edit:: before you say it I can absolutely see how this is an unsustainable business practice for three because of their low volume of customers. But that’s what you have - a large volume of well paying customers.
 
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Our pings were 30ms? As I said I am not sure what you're getting at. The network is fine, there are teething problems with all of the MNOs on the new Elizabeth Street sections that are going to be resolved.

Vodafone's target is 10Mbps, I don't know what the other MNOs are.

I am bemused why you deem 5Mbps unacceptable, there is nothing you cannot do without 5Mbps, literally anything would work on it.

If Wembley Stadium is full on a match day and every customer is receiving 5Mbps, I think that would be more than acceptable.

I am afraid your standards for a network are crazy and will never be met. We will always try and do more and where we can we will but to be unhappy with a reasonable target is nonsensical.

I don't wish to sound rude but it's not as simple as "snap your fingers and it's done". We have 30 million live connections to support. Yes, the network is under strain in a lot of areas and we need to do more - and we are. But ultimately if we can get every customer on a good connection as a minimum 5Mbps and then faster where possible, that is what we will do.

When people are complaining about the network being broken, if there's no data throughput at all then yes, fair enough, there's an issue. But I fail to see what is wrong with having a busy network having a minimum that would still be more than usable. And to say we don't try is an insult to me and my colleagues, I hope you will apologise.
What happens when applications are developed in other countries that use the multi hundred Mbps speeds that 5G provides? Most people in the UK won't be able to use them because their provider decided 10Mbps is enough?

If you upgrade every site in a town and the users there still aren't able to get over 5Mbps, it's time for a new site like EE do, 5Mbps shouldn't be a target in 2023, it should be a bare minimum. If there are tens of thousands of people in one place getting 5Mbps, that's impressive, but most of the time they'll be using their phones in a "less congested" area.

I am afraid your standards for a network are crazy and will never be met. We will always try and do more and where we can we will but to be unhappy with a reasonable target is nonsensical.
Although not in this country, many networks have already met and exceeded the standard

Don't get me wrong, 5Mbps is probably more than enough for most at the moment and it's a whole lot better than how O2 was performing before, but I really don't think it should be a "target" while your competitor networks are deploying gigabit 5G networks and still performing better in every metric in every survey even when you take data out of the picture - But other networks delivered these speeds a long time ago, I'm pretty sure you could've said "5Mbps is enough" when they were rolling out 3G

I don't even know exactly for "what usecase" yet, but globally we are rolling out insanely fast 5G networks and if the market adapts to use them and O2 is still saying "5Mbps is enough" then they will find themselves quickly failing

And again like i've posted over the weekend after trying out O2, i'm massively impressed with how the data performance has come on, I haven't encountered any congestion but there is still a lot of 3G areas, I don't have much bad to say about them in my area, unless Three has upgraded since I tried it they seem to be the fastest here at the moment
 
Please don't talk about me or my colleagues in this way. Because of future proofing, is why we are currently doing our network transformation!

I am here treating you with respect and honesty, please do me the same if you would.
The truth hurts to hear my friend.
 
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Please don't talk about me or my colleagues in this way. Because of future proofing, is why we are currently doing our network transformation!

I am here treating you with respect and honesty, please do me the same if you would.
If anything that was slight criticism, I praised O2 just as many times for coming on so well, but I can't see a more respectful way to put it...

Also, I owe you an apology for some of the childish stuff I came out with last Friday - Sorry
 
It doesn't hurt me personally at all. But I am treating you with respect and you're not doing the same with me.

So with that I will leave our conversation there - and wish you a very good evening.
I can see where your improvements are being made, as you have seen I had nothing but positives to say about the network in Leeds. I have voiced my opinions and so have many others.
Good evening and merry Christmas if you celebrate it.
 
Our pings were 30ms? As I said I am not sure what you're getting at. The network is fine, there are teething problems with all of the MNOs on the new Elizabeth Street sections that are going to be resolved.

Vodafone's target is 10Mbps, I don't know what the other MNOs are.

I am bemused why you deem 5Mbps unacceptable, there is nothing you cannot do without 5Mbps, literally anything would work on it.

If Wembley Stadium is full on a match day and every customer is receiving 5Mbps, I think that would be more than acceptable.

I am afraid your standards for a network are crazy and will never be met. We will always try and do more and where we can we will but to be unhappy with a reasonable target is nonsensical.

I don't wish to sound rude but it's not as simple as "snap your fingers and it's done". We have 30 million live connections to support. Yes, the network is under strain in a lot of areas and we need to do more - and we are. But ultimately if we can get every customer on a good connection as a minimum 5Mbps and then faster where possible, that is what we will do.

When people are complaining about the network being broken, if there's no data throughput at all then yes, fair enough, there's an issue. But I fail to see what is wrong with having a busy network having a minimum that would still be more than usable. And to say we don't try is an insult to me and my colleagues, I hope you will apologise.
5Mbps is just too slow for most things these days. I appreciate that it’s fast enough for WhatsApp calls etc but downloading anything that’s a few hundred mb is painful on those speeds. I’m not insulting you or colleagues. At the end of the day it’s a business. I don’t use o2vm because of my belief that their customer service and values don’t align with mine , that’s fine it’s my choice as a customer.
 
5Mbps is just too slow for most things these days. I appreciate that it’s fast enough for WhatsApp calls etc but downloading anything that’s a few hundred mb is painful on those speeds. I’m not insulting you or colleagues. At the end of the day it’s a business. I don’t use o2vm because of my belief that their customer service and values don’t align with mine , that’s fine it’s my choice as a customer.
In all reality the only reason that "The issue is a fundamental lack of future proofing from within the O2 network team" is true is because O2 made a business decision that they could make more money by deploying B20 only in a lot of places despite having the most customers (money), and are now targetting what most people would consider a usable network speed which will stop most of their complaints, allow them to take on some more customers... but please don't expect to hear that people on this site aren't happy about 5mbps, because I would still argue it's not enough to rely on, but better than nothing

Again, from me, it's impressive the way O2 has improved, I have lots of good things to say and i've been saying them, but targeting 5mbps while competitors are rolling out 5G is not good, imagine a Verizon employee rolling out mmWave 5G hearing:
"The UK's biggest network is targeting 5-10mbps"
 
5Mbps is just too slow for most things these days. I appreciate that it’s fast enough for WhatsApp calls etc but downloading anything that’s a few hundred mb is painful on those speeds. I’m not insulting you or colleagues. At the end of the day it’s a business. I don’t use o2vm because of my belief that their customer service and values don’t align with mine , that’s fine it’s my choice as a customer.
How often are you really downloading something that's a few hundred MB on mobile data?

I think O2 should at least be targeting 15mbps for everyone on 4G at this point imo
 
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How often are you really downloading something that's a few hundred MB on mobile data?

I think O2 should at least be targeting 15mbps for everyone on 4G at this point imo
i have a few frequent ones, but maybe other people wouldn't relate as much
- streaming Netflix in a decent quality
- downloading shows very last minute at Gatwick
- working over RDP, sometimes over a corp VPN
- pulling and pushing to Github
- 5mbps down enough for Zoom? If we have 5mbps down, whats the upload target? Most networks seem to be at a reasonable 1/4 or 1/5 upload of the download

theres many cases I think really, i think it just depends if you find it not important enough to be on a more data based network like EE
a lot of people would be fine with just having Whatsapp and other "basic" apps working just fast enough, EE is targetting them now aswell with their sub 1mbps "always connected" plans, they're just providing a useable network for everyone else too
 
How often are you really downloading something that's a few hundred MB on mobile data?
Just checked on the size of my most listened to podcasts, one is 264MB, another is 163MB and most are in the 40-90MB range.

Using the underground a lot for work as i do, it's nice to be able to grab things quickly on the platform before a train arrives, so i can listen on my journey. With Wifi, i have been able to grab most stuff in time, but not sure how a 5mbps downlink would fare.
 
A video comparing the networks
Wonder if the author of the video is active here.
Anyway, nice effort (despite the nasty comment in YT.. people will pick on anything..).

I have been speedtesting Moorgate & co for a while now and EE has had ~200Mbps there for at least 1 year, probably 2.
Unfortunately the posts have disappeared recently.
 
Just checked on the size of my most listened to podcasts, one is 264MB, another is 163MB and most are in the 40-90MB range.

Using the underground a lot for work as i do, it's nice to be able to grab things quickly on the platform before a train arrives, so i can listen on my journey. With Wifi, i have been able to grab most stuff in time, but not sure how a 5mbps downlink would fare.
Tbh personally I'd just end up listening to my local music collection, think my comments might have been a bit too extreme when my data usage habits are vastly different to yours (e.g. mines used mostly on YouTube / tethering to Switch)
 
Anyone know how to view 3G connection info on iPhone? Heading to Tesco to get some shopping and want to see how the 3G small cell is working
 
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Tbh personally I'd just end up listening to my local music collection, think my comments might have been a bit too extreme when my data usage habits are vastly different to yours (e.g. mines used mostly on YouTube / tethering to Switch)
YouTube music refuses to use downloads on iOS unless you go to the dedicated section, where you can’t use a playlist unless it’s downloaded fully VS Spotify which will play a song from local if it has it

My most intensive data usage app is YT music by 3x the Speedtest one, which really says something
 
i have a few frequent ones, but maybe other people wouldn't relate as much
- streaming Netflix in a decent quality
- downloading shows very last minute at Gatwick
- working over RDP, sometimes over a corp VPN
- pulling and pushing to Github
- 5mbps down enough for Zoom? If we have 5mbps down, whats the upload target? Most networks seem to be at a reasonable 1/4 or 1/5 upload of the download

theres many cases I think really, i think it just depends if you find it not important enough to be on a more data based network like EE
a lot of people would be fine with just having Whatsapp and other "basic" apps working just fast enough, EE is targetting them now aswell with their sub 1mbps "always connected" plans, they're just providing a useable network for everyone else too
I think it's fair to say O2's current policy and performance (despite massive improvements) are not targeting you (or @dansus ).

Also I think what you describe are exceptions..
If you are regularly in a situation where you need to do actual work requiring more serious data rates then you really want to be on EE. At least in London no other provider is consistently "fast enough" in my testing.

In fact if I was in this kind of situation I wouldn't even solely rely on EE either and also look at having VF or O2.

At home I have to use 5G and have contracts from all operators - a bit overkill and could well get away with just 2, but I work online - like you - and cannot afford downtime.
 
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In fact if I was in this kind of situation I wouldn't even solely rely on EE either and also look at having VF or O2.
Been dual simming EE and VF for a while but will switch to EE and O2 after seeing the upgrades

No matter what the network I get disconnected from SSH (a text based terminal that worked on dial up) atleast once every 5-15 minutes… in Ireland I was able to get a 2 hour journey in without disconnecting once

It’s hopeless thinking of getting any work done while travelling, but yes I’ve found EE to be the best for this use case by a long shot
 
Been dual simming EE and VF for a while but will switch to EE and O2 after seeing the upgrades

No matter what the network I get disconnected from SSH (a text based terminal that worked on dial up) atleast once every 5-15 minutes… in Ireland I was able to get a 2 hour journey in without disconnecting once
I can't say I have seen the same, but what would help you is - for example - a good Openvpn install with quick ping and timeouts in the config file, so you can resume the TCP (SSH) session. Or work in a remote RDP or screen/tmux session elsewhere and reconnect as needed.

Also check out Mosh, seems like a perfect fit for this use case.
 
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