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Modem / Router advice please

I'm a relative novice when it comes to ADSL modems and routers. From reading this forum over a number of months I reckon there are a lot of contributors who know a lot about them - and hope that someone might be prepared to help a forum newbie !

I live a long way from my local exchange, and connect to the ADSLMax product from my ISP (fast4) using a 3com router. This reports a download attenuation of 63 dB, with an SNR of around 9 dB (it can vary from 8 to 10), and achieveds a sync rate that varies between about 1300 and 1500 kbps - giving a BT IP profile of 1000 kbps.

I'm more than happy with this 1 meg broadband service - given that my previous ISP (BiscIT) always said my line could never be better than 500k.

However I reckon from reading various posts on ISPr that choice of router (based on chipset and configuration options) could be quite important.

I'm curious to know if swapping my 3 year old 3com officeconnect adsl modem wireless router for a more up to date alternative might increase my sync rate - possibly achieving a 1500 kbps profile.

Do any of you have similar attenuation / SNR figures - and get better sync rates ? If so what router do you use ?
 
Problem is that what works for one might not work for another, so it's very much a case of "try it and see".

That said, there are certain routers that generally DO perform better on flakier lines (without guarantees) and one of these is the Speedtouch 585v6 which I use. My Attenuation is not so bad as yours though, at only 51dB, and I constantly sync at about 6Mb on the Speedtouch, which is a 2Mb improvement in sync over the Safecom router I started with, and the same sync as the Netgear 834 I had next, but with more stability. The Netgear used to resync at a lower rate every evening as the SNR dropped, while the Speedtouch doesn't.

So this would be one to try.

Another is the 2Wire 2700HGV, sold originally locked to BT as the BT Business Hub, and flogged off on eBay for £30 or £40 after being unlocked to work on any ISP. I've not tried one of these yet, but reports do say they are often even better than the Speedtouch.

But it will in the end be trial and error. You can always try one or other and sell it off on eBay if it's no better, I suppose.
 
Have you thought about changing the faceplate on your master socket for one that is filtered ? as that can result in an improvement in line signal as does removing the ringer wire from the circuit

Thanks for suggestion Andy - have already remove the ringwire circuit - with good effect - it increased my sync rate from between 1000 and 1350 to the figures I quote above (1300 and 1500). That got me out of the awful position of sometimes being given a BT IP profile of 500 kbps for 3 or 4 days to the stable 1000 kpbs I've got now.

As for changing faceplate - sounds a good idea but I couldn't put my router permanently at my master socket (it's in the main living room - not the office - ergo, wife would string me up !). Have tried the router connected directly to the test socket. It boosts the sync rate to between 1650 and 1750, which is not good enough to guarantee a regular 1500 IP profile.

Cheers
 
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I wouldn’t expect to see any real tangible increase in performance, it’s a bit like the debate over whether using this Microfilter or that one improves connection speed. In reality if there is an improvement then it’s likely to be almost unnoticeable.

Though as others say, if you have problems with line stability (getting disconnected) then a good quality router might help, although I say “might” very loosely as it’s somewhat of a “try it and see” approach. Personally I’m a big fan of Linksys routers, very fast interface and quite stable, but a bit complicated if you're not familiar with the jargon.

Something else you could try is connecting with PPPoE instead of PPPoA or vica versa if you have PPPoA as default. Technically speaking it shouldn’t help, but for various odd reasons it sometimes does. However this is more a solution to try with connection problems rather than performance.
 
As for changing faceplate - sounds a good idea but I couldn't put my router permanently at my master socket (it's in the main living room - not the office - ergo, wife would string me up !). Have tried the router connected directly to the test socket. It boosts the sync rate to between 1650 and 1750, which is not good enough to guarantee a regular 1500 IP profile.

Cheers

Couldn't you hide the router behind some furniture or something, as long as it gets enough air circulation to keep it cool and connect using wireless. Or choose an aesthetically pleasing router ;)

Other than that fit a faceplate filter in the master socket and run a dedicated (unfiltered) ADSL extension using good quality twisted pair cable to wherever your router is located. A lot of people favour sheilded cat5e for this, although it is probably overkill and is rather thick compared to standard telephone cable.
 
I wouldn’t expect to see any real tangible increase in performance, it’s a bit like the debate over whether using this Microfilter or that one improves connection speed. In reality if there is an improvement then it’s likely to be almost unnoticeable.

I believe modern chipsets tend to have replaced some of the discrete components used with some early chipsets with better performing on chip digital signal processing, although probably mainly with the aim of cutting manufacturing costs.

Also Budget manufacturers often use components with wide tolerances and poor quality/ electircally noisy power supplies.


-------



I have seen it suggested that the best router to use may depend on the chipset used in the DSLAM you are connected to.


I would suggest borrowing routers from a friends to see how they perform rather than rushing out and buying one as unless your sync is increased to always be above 1728 kbps there will be no benifit. I would also suggest googling to find out what chipset your current router uses, some 3com are based on the texas instruments AR7 chipset familly.


Based on the comparissons by users I'ver read, I would be looking for either a broadcom based router such as the Speedtouch 585v6 (or possibly the Netgear dg834gt with third party firmware)

or a Texas Instruments AR7 based router such as the Netgear dg834 or dg834g. However some people with long lines have said they had stability problems and poor sync with the dg834 and dg834g, while others claim it outperforms the speedtouch 585v6


or the 2Wire 2700HGV aka BT busness hub using the "dns poisoning" trick to "unlock it to work with other ISPs" no idea what chipset it is, but several people have claimed it outperforms both the netgear and speedtouch on their lines.

I would avoid routers based on the old Conexant Accessrunner chipset (eg safecom samr-411x) on a poor line.

Incidently, apparently some routers report a maximum attenuation of 63dB so it is possible that the actual attenuation is even worse than indicated :(
 
Last edited:
63.5 db is the highest attenuation that a router will give its a bit like the max SNR most routers will give is 31db, I have a speedtouch 780 and that is more stable on my line than any of the Netgear routers i have tried.
 
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From what I've read the SpeedTouch 585v6 is better for high (60+) line attenuation such as yours.
The Netgear 834's seem to excel at holding onto sync at very low noise margin.
 
It also depends what you are going to use the connection for, the Netgear has a problem with the NAT tables and if you use torrents etc then you will need to restart it now and again, as the table fills up and doesn't clear causing the router to crash. Some of the Linksys routers like the WAG54GS is the same chipset as the Netgear DG834GT but doesnt have the issue with the NAT tables but seem be worse in other areas like routed IP also in the set up of them.
Belkin ADSL modems aint the best so stay well clear of them imo, Speedtouch are good (I love my 780) which doesnt have any issues with NAT or routed IP and if you really wanted and fiddled with it will do both at once quite happy. The basic D-Link routers seem to be good but had a bad experiance with 3 DSL G624M the first all in one MIMO and DSL modem routers (worse than a Belkin), saying that though I've not heard any bad reports about the Belkin MIMO ADSL router, also not many people buying them.

Mainy useless advise there but if it was my money looking for a router it would be the Draytek 2600 has DNS issues but that can be worked round and stabe as anything, but you would have to get one of Ebay or the likes.
 
From what I've read the Draytek 2600 is in many ways an excellent router, but it is likely to sync at a lower speed on longer lines than some other routers.

e.g. http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/showpost.php?p=170222&postcount=9
Its also worth noting that there can be huge differences between the power outputs of various modems and routers, I have been using a Draytek Vigor 2600 plus since AdslMax was rolled out, which gave me consistent max sync rates of 3.2 Mbit with a thruput of 2-2.5Mbits with a target SNR of 6bd.
I then tried a cheap Speedtouch router and got a stable 3.7Mbit sync rate when the target SNR was at 12db !!! The difference in achievable thruput between these two routers could turn out to be a good 1000k higher !!

There is third party firmware available for the DG834gt:- ubergt http://dragonslight.altervista.org/ubergt/index.html which I've seen a couple of favourable reports about, although possibly not enough to convince me to install it if I owned one yet.
 
It depends on the Firmware, the UK2 firmware was made for longer lines and tried to sync lower to stablise them, use any of the other firmwares and it should be fine.
 
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I wouldn’t expect to see any real tangible increase in performance, it’s a bit like the debate over whether using this Microfilter or that one improves connection speed. In reality if there is an improvement then it’s likely to be almost unnoticeable.

Thanks for this warning note Mark. I don't want to end up spending money on a new router for no benefit - that would be really frustrating.....so I thought I'd try and learn from the experiences of other ISPr members who have already been on the quest for improved performance.

I think that the age of my 3com router was making me think along the same lines as Mel:

I believe modern chipsets tend to have replaced some of the discrete components used with some early chipsets with better performing on chip digital signal processing, although probably mainly with the aim of cutting manufacturing costs.

Thanks to all responders (esp. Mel and ManOfMeans) for providing a lot of helpful guidance - and plenty food for thought.

I'd been thinking along the lines of the Netgear 834 or the Speedtouch 585v6 (I'm guessing that the "v6" is important and that the "v5" versions I've seen on ebay won't be as good).

As you suggest, Mel, it would be great to borrow someone else's router and give it a whirl - unfortunately most of the folk I know on broadband are still using their ISP supplied USB modems, BT home hubs, or SKY-locked routers. So if I want to seek that elusive extra performance - I'm going to have to part with hard cash (:shrug:...if only there was a router rental service....:shrug:)

Once again - thanks to all who've given me food for thought so far.
 
Speedtouch 585 V5 & V6

The difference between the v5 and v6 models is cost optimisation and Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive (RoHS) compliancy.

All service and features remain the same.

Thomson had to move from the BCM6348/ADSL2+ to the BCM6338/ADSL2+ chipset to compete with other vendors. The BCM6338 chipset is an increased density chipset, reducing the number of individual components the PCB’s, and hence a smaller PCB.

However in saying this the wireless ST585v6 continues to use the BC6348 chipset, and does not appear to have been cost optimised.

So apart from the RoHS compliancy, which is a significant production change in manufacturing practises - nothing else has changed.

Regards
SpeedTouch NZ Support Team

sourced from

http://www.speedtouch.net.nz/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=518
 
It also depends what you are going to use the connection for, the Netgear has a problem with the NAT tables and if you use torrents etc then you will need to restart it now and again, as the table fills up and doesn't clear causing the router to crash.

i have a netgear dg834 and use p2p bittorrent and have no problems with crashes
 
We recommend the Speedtouch 585 and the version is the v6 we supply, not a bad router at all and well worth the money to me.
 
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