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moving BB , but where to?

Datman

Casual Member
Hi All,
my current BB package with phone line (Now TV ,60 download 10 upload for £25 a month ) contract ends next month and they want to up the price to £28.50 a month in a new contract , thats with a discount of £13.50
now i know i can get superfibre cheaper at my address but i do not want superfibre installed and the faster speeds
what i am looking for is fibre to the cabinet (NOT the premises) ideally with phone line for under £30 a month , does anyone know of any isps still offering FTTC ? also any isps still offering FTTC without phone line? have been looking at comparison sites and seems they are all super fibre, my mum just renewed her contract which is FTTC with plusnet, yet they do not advertise FTTC anywhere, sshe got a very good deal with a £50 voucher thrown in which made it even cheaper :) would imagine other isps may offer this but not advertise it so is anyone still on a FTTC and signed up recently with a isp ?
 
Go to https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome and enter your postcode, select your address and post the results here: make sure to redact/obscure the full address, but leave exchange/cabinet information. This will tell forum members what services are available to you, and make it easier for members to share the right info that is needed.

If the results show that you have access to WBC FTTP, then that is what will be provisioned in almost all cases, as Openreach proactively encourage ISPs to move people to an FTTP connection where it has been provisioned [and they mandate it if the area is an FTTP Priority Exchange]. Just because you are provisioned with FTTP does not mean you need to take higher speeds, and it is perfectly possible to receive VDSL/SOGEA service speeds over an FTTP connection. The difference with an 80/20 service over FTTP is that you will receive that speed [real-world it will be around 76mbps download, 19mbps upload], and will not be subject to any kind of line distance or wire-related limitations that a VDSL/SOGEA service would have.

Any fixed-line service from an ISP that provisions service over the Openreach network will be a broadband package with an added-on VOIP-based phone service, if the ISP offers a VOIP service [many do not]. Analogue phone services are no longer for sale, so you cannot get your old package, if that is what you are looking for.

Standard ADSL broadband services are no longer offered in most cases, if you can receive VDSL/SOGEA or FTTP.
 
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here are the results from link
 

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@Datman thanks for sharing this image. Below is an explanation of the results and hopefully it helps you to make a decision on your question.

The image confirms that WBC FTTP is available at your property, and as a result, ISPs are encouraged by Openreach to move people there from the old copper network: however you are not in an FTTP Priority Exchange, so Openreach are not mandating that you must have FTTP, but ISPs are heavily incentivised to deplete their reliance on the copper network as much as possible.

While copper wire broadband services in the hybrid-fibre form (provisioned as SOGEA: basically fibre-to-the-cabinet but focused only on a broadband service, with ISPs free to deliver voice services over the internet if they so choose) will continue to exist for some time, due primarily to some properties not having access to FTTP at the moment, in your case any ISP that you sign up to receive a service with will be proactively encouraging you and placing orders to set up an FTTP service, as the goal is to replace the copper network in its entirety.

As I explained, you do not need to take the blazing high packages offered on FTTP, and any of the speed profiles offered on a SOGEA line can be perfectly provided over FTTP: indeed, getting provisioned on FTTP is a much easier setup for end users, because the fibre line can handle any level of speed, so while you may not want ultrafast speeds right now, it is effortless to request an upgrade to a higher speed at any time in the future if you decide you need faster speeds, and this would be without any engineer visits to do so.

To explain a bit further as to why you would be highly likely to get FTTP in this case; there are two projects currently being undertaken by Openreach: the analogue phone service via the PSTN and the FTTP network rollout. The former is already on-going and a stop sell has been in place since last September, so any ISP you place an order with can only sell you a broadband package on its own, though a small number of ISPs will offer VOIP phone services. You mentioned Plusnet earlier: they do not offer any VOIP service, just internet packages.

The other project is to make FTTP the only offering available to customers. When 75% or more of the properties served by an exchange can be connected to the FTTP product, Openreach places a stop sell on all copper-based products. In this case, if FTTP can be provisioned to a property, Openreach bans all their partner ISPs from attempting to request a copper product, unless they can provide a reasonable excuse as to why the customer should receive copper products. If a property can't receive FTTP (because the new network has not yet been built to the property) in an FTTP Priority location, then copper products can continue to be provided [with the preference being to SOGEA services], but once the property gets FTTP access, the stop sell comes into force.
 
I'm currently with now, and my deal runs out sometime in the new year.
At the moment I'm looking at full fibre (as I can no longer order copper services in my area - and even if I could, getting full fibre installed sooner rather than later would be a preference)
I dont have much need for high super (expensive)speeds so a lower cost solution would be fine for my needs

Intention is to move my voice line to a third party Voip provider - looking at andrews and arnorld or voiphone and looking at either plusnet or vodafone for broadband , running the new broadbaand service together with the old for a short while until the landline number is ported across
 
The one option that might exist for the OP to continue to get an FTTC and analogue voice service could be TalkTalk if they have done local loop unbundling on the OPs exchange. This means TalkTalk use their own equipment both for broadband and dial tone, and just use the OR copper wires, whereas many other OR based IPs just provide the broadband but use OR dial tone and copper wires.

Talktalk are not impacted by the WLR (wholesale line rental) withdrawal in areas where they have local loop unbundling because they provide their own dialtone. Although I don't think Talktalk have made any announcements yet, they will eventually move with the industry and withdraw these services and go digital.

The OP needs to realise that if they do manage to secure a new contract for FTTC and analogue voice, this will almost certainly be the last one, and within a year or two they will be forced to go fibre and digital voice if they still want a landline. So they're just kicking the can down the road and delaying the inevitable if they don't go with fibre and digital voice now.
 
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They are already trying to push it now.

Any time that FTTP Becomes available you get a letter to say they have booked an appointment to migrate you over to fibre at no extra cost - Whether that's Openreach or CityFibre. If you complain that you will lose your landline they'll post out an ATA so you can use digital voice with your new fibre line.

For now, if you make lots of noise about it they will cancel the installation, but when it comes to recontracting I don't think you get much choice in the matter. If you want to stay with them they seem to be quite insistent that you take fibre at that point.
 
They are already trying to push it now.

Any time that FTTP Becomes available you get a letter to say they have booked an appointment to migrate you over to fibre at no extra cost - Whether that's Openreach or CityFibre. If you complain that you will lose your landline they'll post out an ATA so you can use digital voice with your new fibre line.

For now, if you make lots of noise about it they will cancel the installation, but when it comes to recontracting I don't think you get much choice in the matter. If you want to stay with them they seem to be quite insistent that you take fibre at that point.
Openreach will just start raising the LLU pricing, add in https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...ign-uk-refinancing-deal-agreed-in-august.html and TalkTalk does not seem a safe option.
 
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They are already trying to push it now.

Any time that FTTP Becomes available you get a letter to say they have booked an appointment to migrate you over to fibre at no extra cost - Whether that's Openreach or CityFibre. If you complain that you will lose your landline they'll post out an ATA so you can use digital voice with your new fibre line.

For now, if you make lots of noise about it they will cancel the installation, but when it comes to recontracting I don't think you get much choice in the matter. If you want to stay with them they seem to be quite insistent that you take fibre at that point.

Ah interesting. I have three elderly family members that use me for technology support, and in the last year all three are in a locality where FTTP has gone live. But they have yet to be pestered to migrate from copper by TalkTalk (unless they didn't mention it to me).

One is in a fibre priority area but was able to renew their FTTC a few months before I noted that fibre priority was now flagged for their exchange. The other two are in areas where FTTP buildout is still occurring.

One concern I get from all three is when the time comes to migrate they want to keep the CallSafe product (blocking or announcing unknown callers) without needing to go through the learning process again. Whilst digital voice does support CallSafe I have yet to find out if it migrates with all existing config intact. I would imagine elderly people who have got CallSafe or the equivalent set up would not enjoy having to go through configuration again.
 
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One concern I get from all three is when the time comes to migrate they want to keep the CallSafe product (blocking or announcing unknown callers) without needing to go through the learning process again. Whilst digital voice does support CallSafe I have yet to find out if it migrates with all existing config intact. I would imagine elderly people who have got CallSafe or the equivalent set up would not enjoy having to go through configuration again.
Isn't TalkTalk's traditional landline basically just digital voice but powered at exchange level anyways? I don't know the ins and outs of their network so don't want to assure you incorrectly, but I would assume that it's the same VoIP account just being accessed by an ATA meaning hopefully no configuration would be lost or change in any way.
 
Isn't TalkTalk's traditional landline basically just digital voice but powered at exchange level anyways? I don't know the ins and outs of their network so don't want to assure you incorrectly, but I would assume that it's the same VoIP account just being accessed by an ATA meaning hopefully no configuration would be lost or change in any way.
I think you're right, they have some kind of enterprise ATA that can drive PSTN lines with a VoIP/SIP backhaul.

As for transition of the existing PSTN config including CallSafe, you would hope it could be seamless and transparent, but with the way telcos typically manage transitions between products I suggest all bets are off.
 
Isn't TalkTalk's traditional landline basically just digital voice but powered at exchange level anyways?
The TalkTalk box at the exchange side is called an MSAN and it's basically a DSLAM (for old slow DSL services) plus analogue voice gateway.

I guess you could think of it as an exchange-hosted SIP gateway, but as it's not something the end user can control, it's more akin to WLR where all the user sees is analogue voice. The copper line just connects to the Talktalk MSAN instead of the Openreach telephone exchange. Openreach's "SOTAP for Analogue" will be similar.

With fewer and fewer people on ADSL, this leaves the MSANs providing mainly voice, and that's bound to go at some point. Talktalk will be kicking it into the long grass for now because they will need to deploy new routers to customers with voice ports on them, and there will be legacy voice-only customers to migrate, but ultimately the maintenance and hosting of the MSANs is going to cost them too much to bear.

There are quite a few providers offering FTTP under £30 - e.g. Plusnet for £26 for 80/20, although with £3 annual price hikes it will be £32 by the end of contract. Aquiss is £36 per month but half price for first 6 months.

Sky, BT, EE, and Vodafone all offer included digital voice service; Zen sell it as an extra.

If you don't want to choose one of those, but want to keep your phone number working, then transfer it to a VOIP provider like A&A for about £1.50 per month. If you have a mobile phone then install Acrobits Softphone (£6 one-off charge) which lets you make and receive SIP calls but doesn't drain your battery.

If you make lots of outbound phone calls, then make them from a mobile - it's way cheaper than buying a "landline" calls package (e.g. Lebara £4.90/month for unlimited calls and texts and 5GB data, via MoneySavingExpert)
 
well after searching and visiting talk talks site to see the deals there , they ring me back and try pushing their superfibre, eventually they understand i dont want super fire, and say their super 65 works to the cabinet so expect i will go with them £28 a month(unless now tv can do the same or better price) which includes phoneline ( and yes i know superfibre can be got cheaper) thanks for all your input and comments :)
 
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well after searching and visiting talk talks site to see the deals there , they ring me back and try pushing their superfibre, eventually they understand i dont want super fire, and say their super 65 works to the cabinet so expect i will go with them £28 a month(unless now tv can do the same or better price) which includes phoneline ( and yes i know superfibre can be got cheaper) thanks for all your input and comments :)
As said by one of the forum members above, this will probably be the last time you can put it off and keep with your current PSTN-based service through LLU. You should expect that the next time you try to re-contract, you will have to take a full fibre service, whether you want it or not.

Personally, i cannot understand why you do not want to move to full fibre FTTP, even if its just to get the same 80/20 speeds. Full fibre is far more resilient and has no distance limitations, and is honestly a far better method of delivering internet services to people.
 
If price is an issue then Vodafone look to be the cheapest at £24 including a voice service (I'm assuming you only have the option of Openreach).

Yes it'll be full fibre but you are still retaining a voice service, but it'll be faster for less cost.
 
Admittedly. although I have read a lot of this thread before commenting, not read all of it.. so apologies if saying something that has already been said. FTTP should be and often is cheaper to provide. It is also more reliable (glass fibre) and the infrastructure is relatively new (as well other factors). I would recommend upgrading to FTTP, but going for the slowest speed available (as that's all you need). No doubt you will receive the hard sale for going faster, but politely decline them. Now TV is from Sky Broadband so is £25 (offer of £23 a month at present) a month for avg download of 75Mbps and 18 to 19Mbps up. Then there is a VOIP solution on top of that, I guess? Do you also have to factor in the fact of inflation over the last couple of years? Everything just costs more these days? As a guide I am paying £34.52 (included a mid contract price rise) for FTTP 300Mbps Dn and 50Mbps Up (I think about moving - but I like my static public IP).
 
Isn't TalkTalk's traditional landline basically just digital voice but powered at exchange level anyways? I don't know the ins and outs of their network so don't want to assure you incorrectly, but I would assume that it's the same VoIP account just being accessed by an ATA meaning hopefully no configuration would be lost or change in any way.
It's called Sonus.
Not sure of the exact model number but if you have a look at Sonus Edge SBC ATA gateways you're looking at the correct type of hardware.
 
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