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Olympic Schedule - Don't Miss a Thing

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You can not spend if you dont have it to spend. It would require more borrowing and thats the last thing you do when a company/individual or country is in the financial merde. You spend silly either when things are steady or when going well. Even then you go careful unlike our prior party or you end up screwing yourself a few years down the line.

Running the country is not really any different to running your own finances. If you are an intelligent individual you dont go racking up debt on your credit card when you dont have the money to pay for the debt.

I actually think the current idea is the best idea its just the conservative party like any party hasnt done a very good job (as stated still spending god knows how much on Afghanistan and FTTC as just 2 examples of where we could stop spending).

Spending the country out of trouble is another "wonderful" Labour idea, one im glad is unlikely to happen to the extent they would go. Then again we could go down that path and be the next Greece, in even more financial mess and owing everyone even more.

Not to be rude but its clear our views differ, i believe in common sense ideas (thats NO PARTY CURRENTLY), you believe in the Labour party ideas. Supporting any party in this country at the moment especially any of their ideas from what i can see is an utter illogical thing.

Mind you thats half the problem with this country, too many people that support a specific party rather than whos ideas are best.
Im in my late 30s and find it utterly bizarre why anyone would just blindly support a political party. Election time in this country and interviews normally to specific age groups or society levels of the public is like watching the media interview blind sheep. They can tell you which party they support but can not explain logically why.

Anyways that really is the end of my little round of politics with you now. Its a waste of time for me to continue when your mind is made up one lot would do a better job than the current lot but you dont know why they would. One of the reasons ive reached that conclusion is you have bashed the Olympics security thing but you did not answer how you would had gone about organising security for the event. You cant get more police as those numbers all parties agree need/can be cut, you cant use the military cos most of them are off fighting some pointless squabble in deserts and mountains, so it only left a private security firm. Logically they picked one of the biggest on the planet, that firm then screwed up.
 
All nicely taken well off topic.
 
lol, if l arranged the security the first thing l would have done would be to make sure the numbers needed would have been arranged.. it would have been that simple. after all ld have had to run checks to see if ppl could work in this country and make sure all CRB/SIA were current, it would have been that simple rather than doing it all at last minute.

however l still firmly stand behind the need for more jobs, and some money does need speculating on the job markets, after all we need to work ourselves out of recession, and for that we need money to propagate through every corner of it after all ppl arent going to spend what they dont have.. and my belief is that if we cant get the public to the high street then very little is going to change, and for that we need some stimulus in the economy that will work towards that eventuality.
 
lol, if l arranged the security the first thing l would have done would be to make sure the numbers needed would have been arranged..

Oh really and how do you intend to do that? No seriously come on, thats a stupid statement. Stuff like this is what narks me in this country people beehatch about others and what they do but dont have a solution thereself.

You go to a firm ask for x amount of security people, that firm tells you no problem, following that meeting how are you going to make sure it is no problem???? Looking into their infrastructure wouldnt help cos that would also tell you it aint a problem as they are one of the biggest security firms on the planet. The government are not in any way to blame from what i can see for a private companies failure to meet its promises. Thats like you ordering some new windows and blaming yourself when they aint built in time.

it would have been that simple. after all ld have had to run checks to see if ppl could work in this country and make sure all CRB/SIA were current, it would have been that simple rather than doing it all at last minute.

Oh so you think a private firm that specialises in security is effectively just going to hand over the CVs of all the people they employ. Obviously you have never dealt with security contracts.

however l still firmly stand behind the need for more jobs, and some money does need speculating on the job markets, after all we need to work ourselves out of recession, and for that we need money to propagate through every corner of it after all ppl arent going to spend what they dont have.. and my belief is that if we cant get the public to the high street then very little is going to change, and for that we need some stimulus in the economy that will work towards that eventuality.

The highstreet and the way the media blub on about that is a fad, its also not the way to ensure future employment. The so called highstreet in this country is basically now nothing more than pound shops and coffee shops. Real industry which provided real employment and secure long term employment was killed off in this country years ago........ AGAIN that was a nice combined effort by the Conservatives and Labour party which either bankrupted industry here or sent it overseas where its backside isnt raped every second for taxes.

I hate to say it but you my friend (and i dont say that sarcastically ive often agreed with you in the past) have been watching and reading too much so called "news".

The only thing you should chuck money at to create jobs and growth is industry to manufacture stuff in the first place, not the highstreet, that just funds business to buy more cack from China. Germany was in the merde years ago until they realise spending in anything other than industry was a waste of time. America has even realised lose your industry you lose money (hence why they are trying to get more manufacturing in that country now and stop companies that are allready there farming out stuff like call centres to india). China is the world leader, and what do they do....... Manufacture stuff. THIS COUNTRY IS SCREWED AND ITS GONNA BE SCREWED FOR YEARS COS NONE OF EM OR THE MEDIA HAVE A DAMN CLUE.

The only other thing that could maybe save us is the pharmaceutical industy, but they (and when i say they labour stated it and the conservatives are continuing it) have taken to raping that of profits, development, expanision and pumping them like a hoe for tax.

The likes of Pfizer (they pulled out of kent last year and that was 2000 jobs killed, how much "HIGHSTREET" investment do you think it would take to make 2000 jobs, and not part time or temp cack???), Glaxo and even those which are smaller have even had enough now.

Spend on highstreet.......... Pfffffffffttttttt yeah if you want more tat from China, another 10 coffee shops, 20 pound shops, and if ya really lucky a second hand shop in every other small outlet no other person wants. Grrrrrrrrrr makes me so mad when people cant see the big picture.

That really is it now NO MORE I PROMISE MARKJ because your ideals mimic what some political party and media have. While you can argue im wrong their so called ideas are just making things worse im sorry to say but IMO our political parties and media are idiots. Listening to them is also a pretty stupid thing to do.
 
Oh really and how do you intend to do that? No seriously come on, thats a stupid statement. Stuff like this is what narks me in this country people beehatch about others and what they do but dont have a solution thereself.

You go to a firm ask for x amount of security people, that firm tells you no problem, following that meeting how are you going to make sure it is no problem???? Looking into their infrastructure wouldnt help cos that would also tell you it aint a problem as they are one of the biggest security firms on the planet. The government are not in any way to blame from what i can see for a private companies failure to meet its promises. Thats like you ordering some new windows and blaming yourself when they aint built in time.
you take on a contract then you need to have the collateral to back it up. numbers were discussed and they have had years to arrange that..


Oh so you think a private firm that specialises in security is effectively just going to hand over the CVs of all the people they employ. Obviously you have never dealt with security contracts.
l didnt say anything about CVs, l said CRB/SIA.. CRBs are criminal record checks and SIA licenses are required by law to do security, and since we are talking a major event here both could be easily obtained.

The highstreet and the way the media blub on about that is a fad, its also not the way to ensure future employment. The so called highstreet in this country is basically now nothing more than pound shops and coffee shops. Real industry which provided real employment and secure long term employment was killed off in this country years ago........ AGAIN that was a nice combined effort by the Conservatives and Labour party which either bankrupted industry here or sent it overseas where its backside isnt raped every second for taxes.
you seem to be under the misconception that its the governments fault for the problems we are in now.. essentially the financial sector caused the issue by speculating too much and loosing it all. the only fault Labour is guilty of was not regulating the banks and the Conservatives have made the same mistake tho l do agree their have been allot of faults in leadership ands legislation on both sides.

I hate to say it but you my friend (and i dont say that sarcastically ive often agreed with you in the past) have been watching and reading too much so called "news".
l'll agree l read too much news but l dont exactly follow much more than the things that affect me and my family.. generally benefit related and NHS two things than l feel strongly about.

The only thing you should chuck money at to create jobs and growth is industry to manufacture stuff in the first place, not the highstreet, that just funds business to buy more cack from China. Germany was in the merde years ago until they realise spending in anything other than industry was a waste of time. America has even realised lose your industry you lose money (hence why they are trying to get more manufacturing in that country now and stop companies that are allready there farming out stuff like call centres to india). China is the world leader, and what do they do....... Manufacture stuff. THIS COUNTRY IS SCREWED AND ITS GONNA BE SCREWED FOR YEARS COS NONE OF EM OR THE MEDIA HAVE A DAMN CLUE.
sorry if l confused you with what l meant.. l wasnt suggesting throwing money at the high street. l meant that more jobs means money in ones pocket which pushes down prices as more ppl shop, prices only go up because no one has the money to buy anything and it costs more to stock especially when in regards to luxuries. in essence more jobs = more money propagating through the economy which should bring down prices on the high street meaning more money passes hands throughout the economy.

The only other thing that could maybe save us is the pharmaceutical industy, but they (and when i say they labour stated it and the conservatives are continuing it) have taken to raping that of profits, development, expanision and pumping them like a hoe for tax.
personally l see a big difference between labours policies and the condems.. which are current prepping selling off everyones medical records to private companies.. they say they will be anonomized but with how things are these days it wouldnt take them long to guess who we are via DNA.
 
You still havent explained how you would ensure the security firm you go to could provide enough staff.

The problems we face now in many cases are the fault of the Labour party. Oh yes the wonderful job they did compared to whats being done now eh, off the top of my head lets check that shall we.......

They are the ones that basically put the banking industry and the choices it made in their own hands

They are the ones that were in charge when all the diddling of expenses went on (OH and as that wasnt good enough 3 LABOUR MPs then had the nerve to claim Legal Aid when they got dragged to court) Bwahaha and the so called media and yourself get wound up if MPs under this reign actually earn a penny for thereselves?

They are the ones that spent billions overseas on god only knows what

They are the ones that wasted years of wars... Kosovo 1999, Iraq 2003 etc

They are the ones that wasted billion on quangos

They are the ones that just kept throwing money at the NHS and encouraged them to take loans to build new buildings etc which they can not afford to pay back

They are the ones that had/saw record numbers of unemployed

They are the ones that paid the unemployed so many different benefits even those FULLY HEALTHY in many cases would had been worse off working, so they didnt bother to work.

They are the ones that sold gold when it was at a record low price

They are the ones that did nothing to control immigration

They are the government that introduced a total of 111 tax rises

They were the ones that wanted to waste billions more on a ID card system (when the country was already in the financial merde)

Oh and maybe the funniest though is.... They were the ones in charge when... Mandelson resigning the first time, Mandelson resigning the second time, Mandelson coming back for a third time (you couldnt make that up). Oh and their 1997 election song...... "Things can only get better" Hohoho

I could go on and on and on.

All ill say is good luck in your Labour-ite cause (or thats what it seems like), because even though once again while under them our world literacy ranking dropped from 7th to 17th (i saved that one from the list till now), im quite sure the majority of the country if they had a chance today would have the intellect not to vote for those clowns in at the moment. Worse off now than we were and/or would be still under Labour control... NO WAY. As i said only sheep blindly follow a party without analysing what they actually do.
 
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You still havent explained how you would ensure the security firm you go to could provide enough staff.
there was a number given now a few 1000 less wouldnt have been so bad, however if they needed x amount of guards then it would have been only right to arrange that amount. the amount of money paid up front was more than enough to ensure that however from what lve been told (l know a few who work for the company) ppl had been expecting to work for the olympics and had been told they were but when it came to being told what events they were securing no one knew and no information passed from their head office to their workers.. very business savvy if you ask me...

The problems we face now in many cases are the fault of the Labour party. Oh yes the wonderful job they did compared to whats being done now eh, off the top of my head lets check that shall we.......
you seem to think that the banks are at the control of the government.. maybe the government have powers to print money but once that money is in the banks hands they control it its the lack of regulation thats the problem and any amount of throwing money at them wont help without proper rules.. l agree labour never introduced any and thats part of the issue but the conservatives havent done any better in fact they are doing the same thing labour did... they are throwing our taxes at them to bail them out yet not addressing the root issue.

They are the ones that basically put the banking industry and the choices it made in their own hands
while thats true all the current government is doing is bailing them out over and over and not addressing the root cause which is much worse. we know what the problems are however nothing is been done to address them.


They are the ones that were in charge when all the diddling of expenses went on (OH and as that wasnt good enough 3 LABOUR MPs then had the nerve to claim Legal Aid when they got dragged to court) Bwahaha and the so called media and yourself get wound up if MPs under this reign actually earn a penny for thereselves?
you think our current government is any better..

Chris Grayling: cheated £120,000 on expenses (whether he was faound guilty of it or not the fact remains) he is a Conservative currently minister of the DWP and he us currently taking benefits from disabled ppl using the unfit for purpose ATOS assessments (which puts terminal cancer paitents into work as well as those who shouldnt even be on work schemes) the amount listed above would help a disabled person for 20years!!! at least at the rate it was originally paid. thats just one example.

however you forget the expenses scandal was a witch hunt and the only ppl that paid the price were Labour MPs however Tories and Conservatives were amongst those who were claiming for fraudulent expenses. just like the Leviston inquiry its toothless and doesnt address the whole issue!!

They are the ones that spent billions overseas on god only knows what
ATOS.. need l say more? just thrown another 400mil at this french company to kick off disabled ppl from benefits. and even if we are not spending as much overseas now where is the money being spent now? its not here! they only care about London.

They are the ones that wasted years of wars... Kosovo 1999, Iraq 2003 etc
Afganistan... Libya... Syria.. they arent doing much better now still continue to stick their noses into other conflicts regardless of right or wrong.

They are the ones that wasted billion on quangos
still wasting money now on crap we dont need.

They are the ones that just kept throwing money at the NHS and encouraged them to take loans to build new buildings etc which they can not afford to pay back
so health isnt important? now we look forward to getting turned away from our GPs if practices are privatized and no beds.. hell recently a friend of mine punctured his lung and the privately owned NHS hospital turned him away because he didnt have insurance their explanation was "we have met our NHS patients quota" that wouldnt have happened years ago. now we just claw back money from the NHS and welfare and blame the sick and poor for all the problems, hell according to Lian Duncan Smith poor are to blame for poverty!! that says allot for our government of millionaires who will never wonder where his next meal comes from.

They are the ones that had/saw record numbers of unemployed
thats what the media says.. but thats not what FOI requests from the DWP say.. just a play on statistics.

They are the ones that paid the unemployed so many different benefits even those FULLY HEALTHY in many cases would had been worse off working, so they didnt bother to work.
... blindly believing the press and government soundbites eh? DWP statistics and government statistics show very different pictures. fraud stats direct from the DWP on DLA showed little more than 1%

another recent story l caught listed things like claiming for acne and bad backs.. which obviously looks bad, however 9 times out of 10 a disabled person suffers from more than one problem associated with their disability.

They are the ones that did nothing to control immigration
l agree more needs to be done to control immigration, but while lm not going to blindly believe 3rd party stats most come to work when there isnt as much work there arent as many coming in for that reason, the current government hasnt got that much of a better record.. in fact quite allot arent even checked at the moment when they enter the UK.

They were the ones that wanted to waste billions more on a ID card system (when the country was already in the financial merde)
funny how l have heard those exact same plans coming back from the shelve again..

Oh and maybe the funniest though is.... They were the ones in charge when... Mandelson resigning the first time, Mandelson resigning the second time, Mandelson coming back for a third time (you couldnt make that up). Oh and their 1997 election song...... "Things can only get better" Hohoho
Andy Coleson & Rebeka Brooks both been charged for the News of the world hacking scandal Coleson even made it into Camerons cabinet, the proper procedures were actually skipped!!

All ill say is good luck in your Labour-ite cause (or thats what it seems like), because even though once again while under them our world literacy ranking dropped from 7th to 17th (i saved that one from the list till now), im quite sure the majority of the country if they had a chance today would have the intellect not to vote for those clowns in at the moment. Worse off now than we were and/or would be still under Labour control... NO WAY. As i said only sheep blindly follow a party without analyzing what they actually do.
you assume l support labour lol.. l dont but at the moment they seem the lesser of many evils tho l reserve the right to change my mind at a later date.. tho one thing l do know next elections l wont be voting Tory obviously, Conservatives (not a chance), and Lib Dems have done nothing to help the situation and broken all promises.. like the hands off the NHS promise from the conservatives along with the "no top down reorganization" granted reform was needed but on their current track.. the NHS wont be the NHS when finished.. it will end up as the PHS (Private Health Service) take a look at their last privatizations like British Rail.. great idea that was wasnt it!! then the lib dems student fee promise.. need l say more.

l could say allot more.. but at the moment my choices are limited.
 
When you look back to the last time the conservatives where in power (as that is what this so called coalition amounts to ) lib dems have next to no say in what gets passed in to law, they wanted the DEB repealing before the elections
The cons played a significant part in creating the sick note culture in some parts of the uk, where there where no jobs for all those who where made redundant when there employers relocated overseas or closed down due to thatcher, miners,steelworkers , they encouraged them to claim sickness benefits to reduce the number of unemployed , for political gain, this clown Cameron, isn't going to put money in your pocket, if you are working class or even middle class, whilst he and closest cronies will continue to rape and pillage the public purse, paying themselves far too much and dipping into the expenses trough at ever opportunity they get ,
And the expenses scandal was just the tip of a big iceberg, it had been going on for decades you would be very naive to believe it hadn't , as for the present , it will still be going on, just hidden better ,all 3 mainstream parties are just in it for personal gain, they do not care about the people , they are liers and cheats
 
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As you think the NHS is worse now than it was heres another couple of stats for you while Labour ruled.......

Cancer survival rates among the worst in Europe (another mess current government are trying to fix)
Hospital-acquired infections killed three times as many people as were killed on the roads
Longest waiting lists for surgery EVER in this country.

Yep lets go back to that LOL the NHS was far better.

Wars??? Since when were we at war with Syria? The only war you can point a finger at the current government over is Afghanistan and thats due to our government being Americas lap dog (whoever is in charge). Blair had fantasy visions of WMDs. Brown didnt even know if he should or shouldnt carrying on the wars Mr Blair started. When it came to wasting money on wars and being sure they should be spending Labour had NO CLUE. Atleast our current government will be rremoving troops from Afghanistan, not as soon as they should in my opinion but at least its gonna be done, unlike some wars we can all remember.

Banking regulation??? Oh lets have a reminder of what the former leader had to say....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/13/gordon-brown-banking-sector-regulation

And NO im sorry while you may be disabled (i think you have mentioned that before???), shouting the benefit system was better under labour, no way. While i appreciate you may be genuinely disabled many are not. Something needs doing about it, too many scumbags claiming all they can.

I also stand by the claim many under Labour were better off not working with hundreds each week in benefit. Sorry but you can get lost i dont want to fund that. Labour brought us a lazy society, time its stopped. At one point a person i know with 2 kids, single parent, totally jobless was getting more in benefits than i was working a 45+ hour week.

You wanna talk fair about benefits without me doing that 45+ hour week they wouldnt have their benefit and neither would the disabled. The benefit system as it stood bought us mass unemployment, higher crime and an ever increasing scummy chav element in society. Im glad its being stomped out. The sooner the better. Give em what they NEED not what they WANT.

The ID card system has been shelved, both clegg and cameron have agreed on that (how long they agree for and how long its shelfed for is anyones guess) atleast they didnt let it get to the stage of actually spending money on the idea then scrapping it unlike Mr Blair and co.

The news of the world thing is complete and utter nonsense. Like the other red top rags have never done anything dubious before that so called "shock" scandal. Nothing more than an excuse to go after Murdoch, its pathetic.
Months of the BBC harping on about it every night on the news...... Not so quick to report how the BBC and its employees are a current bunch of tax dodgers every night though are they???? Oh no someones phone got hacked that is far more important news than a corporation we pay a TAX to (IE TV licence fee) scamming the tax system as much as they can.

All the parties suck, times we live in suck, do i want back to go back to what Labour did for years though? HELL NO Anyone that thinks things were better under Labour is utterly delusional or just has a very short memory of the screw ups they did compared to what we have had out of the current government.

@cyclope... If thatcher had backed down with the miners, this country would be dictated to today more by the unions than it already is, we would be having strikes daily probably. Its bad enough as it is without dreaming about the fantasy of if ANY GOVERNMENT had backed down to them. Thatcher made some epic balls ups in her time, as much as our most recent Labour government though? Id say err no.

I agree MP expenses have more than likely always been diddled by the lot of em for ages ANY of em from ANY party that do it are scum......... It was 3 Labour MPs that had the nerve to claim legal aid though (IE shagged the tax payer some more). Thats all Labour did......... Spend, spend and spend some more. Personally i think ANY MP or rather former MP that got prosecuted for it wasnt punished enough.

I generally find conversations like this pointless ive only entertained it so long as timeless has regularly been moaning about ATOS and the NHS on here and i think he needs to remember what things were like before.

He may be in a worse position now, doesnt mean most are though.

Not everyone in this country is disabled or jobless, and for those that are not im sure many would sooner see their taxes paying for a system to root out the dubious claimants than just carry on paying them.

Whether the system is perfect or not is another matter, do we need something to stop the benefit cheat culture though? YES.

Id sooner my money be spent ensuring people that claim they are disabled are disabled. While the merrits of the system employed to do this may be deemed unfair by some, its far better for the nation than just giving every tom dick and harry benefit without checks. Timeless obviously has an issue with the system, but better a system than no system i say.
 
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As you think the NHS is worse now than it was heres another couple of stats for you while Labour ruled.......
no one gets it 100% perfect, but one thing that was proven was that waiting times HAD come down while they were in power.. now you would be lucky to even get an appointment which is NHS based. they give patients two choices.. well supposedly, because now there are quotas on NHS and private patients and doctors are under pressure to push patients down the private routes. even access to beds has gone down. and if your waiting for an Op anyone who has been waiting over 18months who had Op dates (the last governments target) had been rung and their dates cancelled.

Longest waiting lists for surgery EVER
thats what happens when you make 1000s of nurses and doctors unemployed and privatize the NHS!! SOMETHING THIS GOVERNMENT IS DOING! did you ever hear about the peaceful protest against the NHS reforms? the one that had no issues but cops with automatic weapons walking london!! we had less weaponage from the cops in the riots than a peaceful unreported NHS protest.

Yep lets go back to that LOL the NHS was far better.
did you know that the Tory preposer of the NHS reforms wife is part of one of the private healthcare firms that lobbied for the current reforms? l also remember being told somewhere Camerons wife also has interests along with many other MPs who will rake in the money from the reforms.

Wars??? Since when were we at war with Syria? The only war you can point a finger at the current government over is Afghanistan and thats due to our government being Americas lap dog (whoever is in charge). Blair had fantasy visions of WMDs. Brown didnt even know if he should or shouldnt carrying on the wars Mr Blair started. When it came to wasting money on wars and being sure they should be spending Labour had NO CLUE. Atleast our current government will be rremoving troops from Afghanistan, not as soon as they should in my opinion but at least its gonna be done, unlike some wars we can all remember.
it says its removing troops from afganistan.. l have friends over there and according to them the area was supposed to be handing back power to the afgan forces and the troop numbers were to of gone down but there has been no change. you averted to reply in regards to Libiya where we have sent forced in there even choppers.. as for Syria.. its only a matter of time after all it seems iran is siding with them.. 2 birds with one stone.. the UK and the States love getting their noses in when there is the likelihood of finding oil.

Banking regulation??? Oh lets have a reminder of what the former leader had to say....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...tor-regulation
lets have a reminder what our current leader is doing. aka the same thing as the last did.. bailout after bailout with tax payers money while they still continue to pay themselves huge bonuses and were still playing with our money with the recent continuation of the banking fiasco.

And NO im sorry while you may be disabled (i think you have mentioned that before???), shouting the benefit system was better under labour, no way. While i appreciate you may be genuinely disabled many are not. Something needs doing about it, too many scumbags claiming all they can.
39 suicides per week over 60% (figure could be more) who have their benefits stripped off them win their appeals to have them back.. and the cost of the appeals process is staggering!!

in fact quite recently the ministry of justice brought an informational video to help ppl appealing which they posted on youtube.. guess what Chris Grayling censored it citing "factual inaccuracies" however an FOI request actually showed that the parts of the video the DWP minister had problems with were actually factual and completely true like for instance "your 90% more likely to win an appeal if you show up personally to the tribunal".

I also stand by the claim many under Labour were better off not working with hundreds each week in benefit. Sorry but you can get lost i dont want to fund that. Labour brought us a lazy society, time its stopped. At one point a person i know with 2 kids, single parent, totally jobless was getting more in benefits than i was working a 45+ hour week.
the system did need reworking, but l hate to rock your boat but if you didnt have kids then the most you would get (hypothetically speaking of course) is £67 per week (£100 if its a dual claim with a partner) thats all. obviously when l last claimed l had to claim housing benefit as well but £67 doesnt go far after heating/electric/water.. l was lucky to live on 10p noodles!! the government would have you believe the system is riddled with fraud now.. but the only fraud left is that which exists due to computer glitches and human error!!

oh and most ppl can claim tax credits of some sort.. l guess they are scroungers too? we can but we dont...

You wanna talk fair about benefits without me doing that 45+ hour week they wouldnt have their benefit and neither would the disabled. The benefit system as it stood bought us mass unemployment, higher crime and an ever increasing scummy chav element in society. Im glad its being stomped out. The sooner the better. Give em what they NEED not what they WANT.
so taking away someones last lifeline will keep them from a life of crime? l really pity this society, when someone has nothing more to loose thats when they turn to crime. oh l dont suppose you have heard of workfare.. some jobseekers are being made to do more hours than you for their £67 a week!! in fact some were used at the jubilee pageant as security...

The ID card system has been shelved, both clegg and cameron have agreed on that (how long they agree for and how long its shelfed for is anyones guess) atleast they didnt let it get to the stage of actually spending money on the idea then scrapping it unlike Mr Blair and co.
none the less money has still be wasted on many other things of the same level of stupidity.. best example would be the snooping laws.. all the reasons they want it have been invalidated by the fact they warned the guys they wanted to catch with it.

The news of the world thing is complete and utter nonsense. Like the other red top rags have never done anything dubious before that so called "shock" scandal. Nothing more than an excuse to go after Murdoch, its pathetic.
Months of the BBC harping on about it every night on the news...... Not so quick to report how the BBC and its employees are a current bunch of tax dodgers every night though are they???? Oh no someones phone got hacked that is far more important news than a corporation we pay a TAX to (IE TV licence fee) scamming the tax system as much as they can.
l personally believe the papers should be brought to account.. you wouldnt be so apathetic if you knew that he was trying to get blair back into Labour and advocates Boris as the next PM.

All the parties suck, times we live in suck, do i want back to go back to what Labour did for years though? HELL NO Anyone that thinks things were better under Labour is utterly delusional or just has a very short memory of the screw ups they did compared to what we have had out of the current government.
so shrinking the state, continuing the bailout culture is somehow better compared to the last government.. lm confused?

If thatcher had backed down with the miners, this country would be dictated to today more by the unions than it already is, we would be having strikes daily probably. Its bad enough as it is without dreaming about the fantasy of if ANY GOVERNMENT had backed down to them. Thatcher made some epic balls ups in her time, as much as our most recent Labour government though? Id say err no.
ah thatcher.. another state scrounger.. at least by going by above logic since everyone who claims any form of money originating from ppls taxes makes them lazy and a scrounger.

I generally find conversations like this pointless ive only entertained it so long as timeless has regularly been moaning about ATOS and the NHS on here and i think he needs to remember what things were like before.
since the reforms lm lucky if l get an appointment every three months.. supposed to have them monthly. how is it better now?

He may be in a worse position now, doesnt mean most are though.
how many ppl do you know with Cancer and mental issues? now lets work out how many have been told they are fit to work. out of about 20 of my friends who were claiming ESA for a bunch of ailments which included the above EVERY ONE OF THEM are currently appealing the decision.. in fact my friend who is terminally ill with cancer was given 6 months, appeals on average take 6 months and she has her first day of workfare next week!! she doesnt turn up she doesnt get money.
 
wasnt enough space lol:

Not everyone in this country is disabled or jobless, and for those that are not im sure many would sooner see their taxes paying for a system to root out the dubious claimants than just carry on paying them.
l dont dispute the need to keep fraud out of the system. just the fact that its been taken away from those who sincerely needed it.. my father for instance, worked for 30yrs lost his job through not fault of his own and somehow he became ineligible even tho circumstances never changed.

Id sooner my money be spent ensuring people that claim they are disabled are disabled. While the merrits of the system employed to do this may be deemed unfair by some, its far better for the nation than just giving every tom dick and harry benefit without checks. Timeless obviously has an issue with the system, but better a system than no system i say.
so lm guessing a system which currently tests capability via paper without a medical professional is better than ones own GP? the recent article l read about a man who died 6 weeks after being found healthy to work died of a heart attack.. his medical records from his GP pretty much gave the indication he shouldnt have been doing strenuous work.. so they made him cut down branches with an axe and a pair of sheers unattended on a overgrown park..
 
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.....the system did need reworking, but l hate to rock your boat but if you didnt have kids then the most you would get (hypothetically speaking of course) is £67 per week (£100 if its a dual claim with a partner) thats all.

That figure is (or rather was) for job seekers allowance, income support just for starters was more than £67 a week. (both benefits have SENSIBLY now been replaced as a singular ONE rate benefit known as ESA). You also neglect to factor, council tax help and about another billion handouts all brought about by good old labour for the lazy jobless.

That figure you quote also irks me and demonstrates now you are being dishonst. If you are on a disability benefit (no matter which one) that was significantly more than £67 a week (and still is, its nearer £100 nowadays). You would also if needed get a benefit called "carers allowance" if your disabled condition warranted the need for someone to give you assistance at home.

Oh and why the hell should jobless also get these so called "couple" type allowances, another wonderful labour invention, why the hell someone claiming JSA should be able to claim more cos they have a partner i dunno.

how many ppl do you know with Cancer and mental issues? now lets work out how many have been told they are fit to work. out of about 20 of my friends who were claiming ESA for a bunch of ailments which included the above EVERY ONE OF THEM are currently appealing the decision..

This is yet more TOTAL AND UTTER dishonesty.

People that have cancer are still entitled to claim the original Disability Living Allowance this has not been scrapped and will not be looked at being dissolved now until towards the end of the year.

They are also entitled to a "premium top up" payment under that if they are not expected to live in x months time (i think it was currently 9 months when i filled in the forms for someone about 2 months ago). THIS IS MADE VERY CLEAR IN THE NOTES INCLUDED WITH THE CLAIM PACK/FORMS.

To claim this benefit DOES NOT require you attend an interview with any of the ATOS mob, you keep moaning about.

A simple medical report from your GP or specialist is all that is required if you have cancer or a serious mental condition. For a successful DLA claim.

You do not even have to attend so called "Advisor" interviews at the local job centre/DSS like you may with a normal ESA claim.

The only time you are assessed be it by Employment Services/ATOS, or are assessed just on paper is when you are trying to claim you are disabled with things such as a bad back, knee, leg etc. You dont have to go through that ordeal if you are mentally disturbed or if you have cancer.

I dont know where you plucked that complete and utter fantasy from (probably some BS media story like most it seems you have picked up on) but i can tell you for a fact it is not true.

Its also not true for an ESA claim if you have cancer. I KNOW cos i recently filled in the forms for ESA and DLA for someone in this exact position. Their claims were approved within about 2 weeks of sending the forms back.

Again people that claim bad backs, knees etc are the ones they assess either entirely on the form or via their ES own medical assessment to get ESA.

The notes enclosed with BOTH forms even makes mention of the fact you can claim "special circumstances" if you are not expected to live.

Ill actually get hold of the notes enclosed with both forms scan and upload them if you want to dispute this.

The rest of your 2 posts im not even going to address because like the bit about benefits you are ill informed.

The benefit system needs serious reform and im glad its happening.
 
truth4free, you said
You would also if needed get a benefit called "carers allowance" if your disabled condition warranted the need for someone to give you assistance at home.
You are wrong, I'm afraid. Disabled people can not claim carers allowance. Only the actual carer can claim that, basically it is a pittance of a wage for caring for a disabled person for at least 35 hours a week!

I've been (genuinely) disabled since 1982. I had a medical examination every year to see if I was still entitled to what was then called invalidity benefit. In 1987, my condition (rheumatoid arthritis) had progressed to the stage where I was almost unable to walk, so I claimed what was then called mobility allowance. I had a medical and was awarded the benefit. I had a medical examination each year to make sure I was still entitled to it. 1989 I applied for what was called attendance allowance. Another medical, was awarded the benefit, another medical every year to make sure I was still entitled. All these medicals were the norm back then.

Now we'll jump ahead to April 1995. Under the Tory goverment headed by John Major, the rules changed for these benefits. In April of that year, invalidity benefit was renamed to incapacity benefit. "Don't worry, if you get invalidity benefit, you won't lose anything, as incapacity benefit will be paid at the same rate". Fine, we thought, except we didn't get a cost of living rise because the new benefit was the same rate as the old one! So we did lose out.

At the same time, mobility allowance and attendance allowance were lumped together and were called DLA, with two components, one for mobility and one for care. Once again, "Don't worry, if you get mobility and/or attendance allowance, you won't lose anything, as DLA will be paid at the same rate for each component". Guess what? No cost of living rise for that year, so we lost out again.

Now we come to the big crunch; from April 1995, medical examinations were no longer required to get any of these benefits, you could claim and get them on basically your own assessment and a letter from your doctor. Obviously, there was a sudden massive increase of claims for these benefits, most of which were successful. If the need for medicals hadn't been scrapped, there would be far fewer people on these benefits.

The Labour party decided to try and correct the situation by calling nearly all claimants in for medical examinations to see if they should be getting the benefits. Yes, the Labour party attempted to fix a problem created by your beloved Tories.
People who were not entitled to the benefits lost the benefits. Now, of course, the Tories are trying to tell us that the problem was created by the Labour government. They seem to have conveniently developed selective amnesia, don't they?

Now, what is the difference between the Labour party enforced medicals and the Tory enforced medicals? Well, the Labour ones were actual medicals carried out by qualified doctors, but the Tory so-called "medicals" are carried out by contracted "medical professionals" who are not doctors. Do you know what a "qualified professional" is? It means someone who has a qualification for some sort of medical training. Did you know that a grade 1 first aider can be called a qualified professional? They have no medical diagnostic training, they simply follow a written procedure, which is seriously flawed. Did you see the the recent programs on the subject by Channel 4 and BBC's Panorama?

All the assessments should be carried out not by a bunch of first aiders, but by qualified doctors who have access to the relevant medical notes from GPs and specialists. That way, genuinely disabled would not be told to go to work, but the leadswingers would be taken off the benefits, as they should be.

One thing I am thankful for is that I don't have to be assessed by Atos for my incapacity benefit as I will be 65 at the end of this month and will stop getting that and will receive state pension instead. What I am not looking forward to is the assessment in the future for pension age DLA recipients, apparently starting in 2015. Judging by what Atos are doing now to the disabled, I doubt whether many pensioners will continue to get DLA or PIP.
 
Just thought I'd tell you that carers allowance can be a double edged sword. If your spouse claims carers allowance, you can't claim for your spouse as a dependant, so you get no financial benefit. In fact, it can work against you if you are entitled to income support or pension credit. As a dependant, the dependant's benefit is classed as part of your invalidity benefit, but if your spouse gets carers allowance (don't forget you then are not getting the dependant's allowance), it is classed as additional income and therefore can reduce the amount on income support/pension credit you can get.
 
You dont have to go through that ordeal if you are mentally disturbed or if you have cancer.

AFAIK, not true. The ESA50 questionnaire has sections for physical and mental health and you have to score a minimum of 15 points just to be put in the WRAG (that requires a series of back to work interviews). This is often followed by an ATOS medical; as the recent C4 documentary showed people receiving treatment for cancer are not always excluded.
 
Last edited:
t4f said:
Oh and why the hell should jobless also get these so called "couple" type allowances, another wonderful labour invention, why the hell someone claiming JSA should be able to claim more cos they have a partner i dunno.
That is only payable if neither of the couple are working, and is basically the same as it has been for decades, only the name changed. It was originally called dependant's allowance.

Timeless said:
how many ppl do you know with Cancer and mental issues? now lets work out how many have been told they are fit to work. out of about 20 of my friends who were claiming ESA for a bunch of ailments which included the above EVERY ONE OF THEM are currently appealing the decision

t4f replied:
This is yet more TOTAL AND UTTER dishonesty.

People that have cancer are still entitled to claim the original Disability Living Allowance this has not been scrapped and will not be looked at being dissolved now until towards the end of the year.

Excuse me, but Timeless was talking about ESA, not DLA...

Also, as Bob2002 has stated, you are wrong about mental health and cancer sufferers.

I'm sorry truth4free, but some of your statements are very far removed from reality.
 
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AFAIK, not true. The ESA50 questionnaire has sections for physical and mental health and you have to score a minimum of 15 points just to be put in the WRAG (that requires a series of back to work interviews). This is often followed by an ATOS medical; as the recent C4 documentary showed people receiving treatment for cancer are not always excluded.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/advisers/claimforms/esa1.pdf

PART 4 Special rules

In the claim pack you get there is an entire seperate page that explains the exact conditions you can claim under that rule for, one of which is cancer.

You do not need to attend interviews etc if you are on your last legs, again a complete and utter dillusion created by the media.

You will also note mentioned in part 4 is Disabilty Living Allowance which just as i said also still exists. A person with cancer can claim both benefits. A person with Cancer will get both very quickly, unlike someone claiming they have a bad back or similar.

SO no not wrong at all. Good to see you all lept to say i was though based on media and TV programmes LOL
 
Just thought I'd tell you that carers allowance can be a double edged sword. If your spouse claims carers allowance, you can't claim for your spouse as a dependant, so you get no financial benefit. In fact, it can work against you if you are entitled to income support or pension credit. As a dependant, the dependant's benefit is classed as part of your invalidity benefit, but if your spouse gets carers allowance (don't forget you then are not getting the dependant's allowance), it is classed as additional income and therefore can reduce the amount on income support/pension credit you can get.

Income support no longer exists it has been replaced by ESA.

Yawn....... This may as well be locked now as its declined into nothing more than people harping on about what they have read or seen on the tele rather than reality.
 
.........
Also, as Bob2002 has stated, you are wrong about mental health and cancer sufferers.

I'm sorry truth4free, but some of your statements are very far removed from reality.

Funny ive just provided the link and am more than happy to still scan and upload the notes sheet which comes in a calim pack.

FURTHERMORE AS MORE EVIDENCE........
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_172082.pdf

AND I QUOTE"What if I am terminally ill?
There are special rules for people who are not
expected to live longer than 6 months because of
an illness. But it is, of course, impossible to say
exactly how long a person will live. Getting
Employment and Support Allowance under these
special rules means that you will get the main
phase rate of Employment and Support
Allowance from the start of your claim. You will
not need the assessment phase, and you do not
have to have a medical assessment or a work
focused assessment unless you want to.

If you have a terminal illness, make sure you and
your doctor tell us. The information you give us
will not be given to anyone else.
If you think you qualify for Employment and
Support Allowance under the special rules, you
should also claim Disability Living Allowance if
you have not already done so.
"

NOTE THE BOLD UNDERLINED BIT.......

So thank you to all the Labour supporting mob, but enough of your day dreams. Whos removed from reality again????

Some need to stick to reading the Daily Mail and watching Channel 4 along with the brain washing that comes with it.

Any OTHER statement ive made any of you want evidence of? NO good
 
t4f, your part 4 special rules, this applies only if you have been told by your doctor or specialist that you have less than 6 months to live. It does not cover cancer where no life time limit has been assumed, and it does not cover mental health problems, which you earlier insisted it does.
As for income support, some people still get it as not everyone has been transferred to ESA yet, and pension credit certainly still exists. Please do your research very carefully before insisting only you can be right and everyone else is wrong!

As for the channel 4 program, did you watch it? If not, I suggest you watch it on the internet before making comments such as
watching Channel 4 along with the brain washing that comes with it.
 
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