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This thread is so far off course that it may eventually prove that the universe is circular (by returning to its starting point).

Anyway, Mentally ill people are not supposed to get called in by ATOS according to various government wonks, yet at least ONE mentally ill person has committed suicide AT an ATOS meeting.

My source? Private Eye, but I dont have the issue or page number of the story, sorry.

SO this is down to ATOS being incompetent (a requirement to get ANY government contract??), and not government policy.
 
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picking out bits l feel deserve a reply:

This is yet more TOTAL AND UTTER dishonesty.
then you have never had an ATOS assessment.. l wonder how easy ppl find it to fake cancer (or at least thats what l think you mean when you say dishonesty).

People that have cancer are still entitled to claim the original Disability Living Allowance this has not been scrapped and will not be looked at being dissolved now until towards the end of the year.
while this is true, if ATOS work capability tests say they can work then they are removed from DLA/ESA and put on JSA, l know because lve got friends with numerous issues that require DLA/ESA even one who is waiting for a double lung transplant who has to carry oxygen 95% of the time who didnt get enough points on the assessment so had to appeal the decision.. she has cystic fibrosis so she has also got first hand experience of how much worse the welfare and NHS systems have gotten.

They are also entitled to a "premium top up" payment under that if they are not expected to live in x months time (i think it was currently 9 months when i filled in the forms for someone about 2 months ago). THIS IS MADE VERY CLEAR IN THE NOTES INCLUDED WITH THE CLAIM PACK/FORMS.
jobcentre forms? lve never seen that part, tho if you tell me you did them offline they dont hand out packs at the jobcentre they tell you to phone for them and the rep fills them in for you to sign.

To claim this benefit DOES NOT require you attend an interview with any of the ATOS mob, you keep moaning about.
just wait it wont be long before your friend (l assume) will have to attend an assessment.

in fact l quote this from the DWPs website: Healthcare professionals employed by Atos Healthcare provide medical services to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP). Their main role is to give medical advice to help DWP decision makers reach an appropriate decision on entitlement to benefit.
Source: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/healthcare-professional/guidance/atos-healthcare/

A simple medical report from your GP or specialist is all that is required if you have cancer or a serious mental condition. For a successful DLA claim.
yeah it used to be, now they opt for their in house medical professionals who do nothing medical just ask questions about their ability to press buttons and use pens.

You do not even have to attend so called "Advisor" interviews at the local job centre/DSS like you may with a normal ESA claim.
your way behind the times.. in fact did you know if a claim for ESA is successful you can only claim it for a year unless assessed otherwise.

The only time you are assessed be it by Employment Services/ATOS, or are assessed just on paper is when you are trying to claim you are disabled with things such as a bad back, knee, leg etc. You dont have to go through that ordeal if you are mentally disturbed or if you have cancer.
l know for a fact that ppl with such ailments have, and l know said ppl personally in fact my friend with cancer relapsed she is still on workfare while waiting for her appeal to go through.

I dont know where you plucked that complete and utter fantasy from (probably some BS media story like most it seems you have picked up on) but i can tell you for a fact it is not true.
heh not media.. me and friends have gotten FIRST hand experience of this system.

Its also not true for an ESA claim if you have cancer. I KNOW cos i recently filled in the forms for ESA and DLA for someone in this exact position. Their claims were approved within about 2 weeks of sending the forms back.
you sound more and more like someone who works for the JCP.. still like l said, wait a month or two and it will happen.

regardless l dont disbelieve you regarding what the forms contain.. lm just repeating my own and many others experiences.. sounds like your friend is very lucky so far compared to the rest of us.

Mender:
You are wrong, I'm afraid. Disabled people can not claim carers allowance. Only the actual carer can claim that, basically it is a pittance of a wage for caring for a disabled person for at least 35 hours a week!
indeed my auntie has first hand experience of that.

Now, what is the difference between the Labour party enforced medicals and the Tory enforced medicals? Well, the Labour ones were actual medicals carried out by qualified doctors, but the Tory so-called "medicals" are carried out by contracted "medical professionals" who are not doctors. Do you know what a "qualified professional" is? It means someone who has a qualification for some sort of medical training. Did you know that a grade 1 first aider can be called a qualified professional? They have no medical diagnostic training, they simply follow a written procedure, which is seriously flawed. Did you see the the recent programs on the subject by Channel 4 and BBC's Panorama?
hit the nail on the head mate!!

in fact heres the BBC documentury
pt1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfJYzVUmvic
pt2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKeEyhF1FRI
pt3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnM4qs9-wfs

havent seen the one on chan 4 tho it will prolly be on 4OD

AFAIK, not true. The ESA50 questionnaire has sections for physical and mental health and you have to score a minimum of 15 points just to be put in the WRAG (that requires a series of back to work interviews). This is often followed by an ATOS medical; as the recent C4 documentary showed people receiving treatment for cancer are not always excluded.
well said Bob this is exactly what lm talking about.

That is only payable if neither of the couple are working, and is basically the same as it has been for decades, only the name changed. It was originally called dependant's allowance.
exactly, the only real difference is that single claims compared to dual ones is that as a dual its in essence £50 per person per week rather than£67

PART 4 Special rules

In the claim pack you get there is an entire seperate page that explains the exact conditions you can claim under that rule for, one of which is cancer.

You do not need to attend interviews etc if you are on your last legs, again a complete and utter dillusion created by the media.

You will also note mentioned in part 4 is Disabilty Living Allowance which just as i said also still exists. A person with cancer can claim both benefits. A person with Cancer will get both very quickly, unlike someone claiming they have a bad back or similar.

SO no not wrong at all. Good to see you all lept to say i was though based on media and TV programmes LOL
the forms do say that l remember them.. but that doesnt mean things are different from what we have described about the treatment some of us unlucky ppl have received.

Income support no longer exists it has been replaced by ESA.

Yawn....... This may as well be locked now as its declined into nothing more than people harping on about what they have read or seen on the tele rather than reality.
incorrect, ESA is Employment Support Allowance JSA and be income based or contribution based however both JSA and ESA are two different benefits one requires some sort of medical the other you have to be looking for work to get.

This thread is so far off course that it may eventually prove that the universe is circular (by returning to its starting point).

Anyway, Mentally ill people are not supposed to get called in by ATOS according to various government wonks, yet at least ONE mentally ill person has committed suicide AT an ATOS meeting.

My source? Private Eye, but I dont have the issue or page number of the story, sorry.

SO this is down to ATOS being incompetent (a requirement to get ANY government contract??), and not government policy.
lol the meaning of life XD

l can add that a person who was found fit to work quite recently died of a heart attack, he was put on workfare this all against his GPs recommendations but ATOS found him fit for work.. not to mention that an FOI request which asked how many died after medical assessments which removed their benefits shows at least 39 disabled a week are committing suicide.
 
t4f, your part 4 special rules, this applies only if you have been told by your doctor or specialist that you have less than 6 months to live. It does not cover cancer where no life time limit has been assumed, and it does not cover mental health problems, which you earlier insisted it does.
As for income support, some people still get it as not everyone has been transferred to ESA yet, and pension credit certainly still exists. Please do your research very carefully before insisting only you can be right and everyone else is wrong!

As for the channel 4 program, did you watch it? If not, I suggest you watch it on the internet before making comments such as

Sigh guess to shut you all up ill just have to get hold of the notes sheet and upload it, though i doubt even that will help the brain washing that has occurred.

The person i completed the form for has cancer and they can not say if they will live, die or if they are likely to die how long they have left. IT is not required. The form allows for you to included medical reports, if the person looking at the form does there job properly and sees a doctor and specialist report that you have cancer they are not going to call you to an interview.

Income support was FULLY scrapped back in MAY 2012. Nobody right now should be receiving Incoming support it will be ESA instead.

There are 2 periods to payments. The assessment phase rate is paid for the first 13 weeks of your claim while a decision is made on your capability for work through the Work Capability Assessment. (THAT ASSESSMENT is the FORM not ANY MEDICAL PERSON, if they can not decide from the FORM thats when you get send off to a medical assessment)

After that you you move onto The main phase of the claim which starts from week 14 of your claim. At this point you will have been place in one of 2 catagories.....
Work Related Activity Group or the Support Group.
(The quote of......... ESA is Employment Support Allowance JSA and be income based or contribution based by our ill informed little friend that started all this IS NONSENSE)
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTa...CreditsAndOtherSupport/Illorinjured/DG_171896
THATS THE RATES. The whole income v contribution thing, that applied to Income Support when it existed and applies to JSA, it has nothing to do with ESA though. I doubt they even claim ESA but more likely JSA, based on what they think the rates are earlier in the thread (£60 odd quid) and this new ill informed snippet. You can get a top up payment to your ESA if your income is very low, but there is no 2 distinct rates. (apart from age related).

The also have no clue about forms....... You can walk into any DSS, Employment services/Job centre and ask for all the claim forms, be it JSA, ESA, DLA, some even carry the housing benefit forms to avoid a second visit down the council. They just dunno what they are on about.

It was the local Employment Services where i went to get the forms for the person i know with cancer, i didnt even have to wait 2 minutes for the person to leave their desk and come back with the claim packs and give give brief explanation on what to complete.

TIMELESS has been spoon fed one too many newspaper articles, that or they are just dealing with their claim in the wrong manner. To even suggest i work for Employment services, DSS or whatever he is on about now is ridiculous, i own and run my own business, and im happy to show evidence of that also if he would be willing to remove his tin foil hat for 30 seconds.


Income Support DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE, YOU CANT CLAIM IT AND ANYONE THAT WAS ON IT HAS BEEN MOVED OVER TO ESA.

Do you want me to go find all exact dates also???

This thread is so far off course that it may eventually prove that the universe is circular (by returning to its starting point).

Anyway, Mentally ill people are not supposed to get called in by ATOS according to various government wonks, yet at least ONE mentally ill person has committed suicide AT an ATOS meeting.

My source? Private Eye, but I dont have the issue or page number of the story, sorry.

SO this is down to ATOS being incompetent (a requirement to get ANY government contract??), and not government policy.

Nobody with cancer or SERIOUS mental issues will get called in for assessments or interviews. Like any benefit system in the past theres bound to be the odd one that slips through the cracks and whos claim is handled wrong. THAT THOUGH IS NOTHING NEW and has happened for years.

It certainly is not the norm Cancer paitents etc to get called into interviews like some of these mis-informed media brainwashed lot think. In fact given timeless doesnt even think you can go get an ESA form from your local Employment Services, im wondering even if it is media brainwashing but some other agenda, or just as i initially suspected, loony toon soap box dancing to shout how bad the conservative party is.

OH AND FURTHERMORE......... The person i completed forms for will NOT be called to an assessment or interviews with advisers. When their claim was approved within 2 weeks of completing the forms they write back informing you the claim was successful.

They also inform you and i quote the letter exactly "you will NOT need to attend any interviews or assessments unless you choose to do so".


ENOUGH OF THIS CONSPIRACY CLAPTRAP TRIPE
 
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SO no not wrong at all. Good to see you all lept to say i was though based on media and TV programmes LOL

Erm, you were wrong. You stated that people with cancer or mental health conditions don't have to attend assessments. You've now changed tack and state that people with terminal cancer don't have to attend assessments. Not really the same thing as your blanket statement. People undergoing chemo(e.g. oral chemo) often do have to attend medicals.

As for mental health -

The decision maker at the DWP may be able to decide whether you have limited capability for work after reading the information given in your ESA50, however in most cases you will also be asked to attend a medical assessment.

http://www.rethink.org/living_with_...pability_assessment/wca_medical_assessme.html

You dont have to go through that ordeal if you are mentally disturbed or if you have cancer.

So there we are, your post was inaccurate. :hrmph:
 
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Sigh guess to shut you all up ill just have to get hold of the notes sheet and upload it, though i doubt even that will help the brain washing that has occurred.

The person i completed the form for has cancer and they can not say if they will live, die or if they are likely to die how long they have left. IT is not required. The form allows for you to included medical reports, if the person looking at the form does there job properly and sees a doctor and specialist report that you have cancer they are not going to call you to an interview.

Income support was FULLY scrapped back in MAY 2012. Nobody right now should be receiving Incoming support it will be ESA instead.

There are 2 periods to payments. The assessment phase rate is paid for the first 13 weeks of your claim while a decision is made on your capability for work through the Work Capability Assessment. (THAT ASSESSMENT is the FORM not ANY MEDICAL PERSON, if they can not decide from the FORM thats when you get send off to a medical assessment)

After that you you move onto The main phase of the claim which starts from week 14 of your claim. At this point you will have been place in one of 2 catagories.....
Work Related Activity Group or the Support Group.
(The quote of......... ESA is Employment Support Allowance JSA and be income based or contribution based by our ill informed little friend that started all this IS NONSENSE)
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTax...ured/DG_171896
THATS THE RATES. The whole income v contribution thing, that applied to Income Support when it existed and applies to JSA, it has nothing to do with ESA though. I doubt they even claim ESA but more likely JSA, based on what they think the rates are earlier in the thread (£60 odd quid) and this new ill informed snippet. You can get a top up payment to your ESA if your income is very low, but there is no 2 distinct rates. (apart from age related).

The also have no clue about forms....... You can walk into any DSS, Employment services/Job centre and ask for all the claim forms, be it JSA, ESA, DLA, some even carry the housing benefit forms to avoid a second visit down the council. They just dunno what they are on about.

It was the local Employment Services where i went to get the forms for the person i know with cancer, i didnt even have to wait 2 minutes for the person to leave their desk and come back with the claim packs and give give brief explanation on what to complete.

TIMELESS has been spoon fed one too many newspaper articles, that or they are just dealing with their claim in the wrong manner. To even suggest i work for Employment services, DSS or whatever he is on about now is ridiculous, i own and run my own business, and im happy to show evidence of that also if he would be willing to remove his tin foil hat for 30 seconds.


Income Support DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE, YOU CANT CLAIM IT AND ANYONE THAT WAS ON IT HAS BEEN MOVED OVER TO ESA.

Do you want me to go find all exact dates also???
yes they are moving over to a universal type credit system.. but ESA is a support allowance for those with health issues.. JSA is for those "SEEKING" work hence "job SEEKERS allowance".

and l agree the forms do state what you say they do, but whats written on paper and what the DWP are doing are two different things.

and you suggest that lm reading the press.. since when did you ever see the daily rags or the mainstream media do anything more than throw insults like scroungers and scum.. and hear about weekly busts of those who got through the cracks of DLA.. funnily enough those caught now originally did have problems (at least back on their original claim) however fraudulently claimed once their health had improved and thats what needs to be addressed.

Nobody with cancer or SERIOUS mental issues will get called in for assessments or interviews. Like any benefit system in the past theres bound to be the odd one that slips through the cracks and whos claim is handled wrong. THAT THOUGH IS NOTHING NEW and has happened for years.
l can name at least two ppl who have been called up for ATOS assessment who had Altzimers one of which was found fit for work and is currently appealing the decision. the other person has amazingly passed two assessments so far.

as for my friend with Cancer, her cancer relapsed in Feburary 2 months ago she was found fit for work despite medical advice not to be put on the scheme l actually went up to the local ATOS assessment office with her last time which is upstairs by the way.. which is very accessible to the wheelchair bound..

It certainly is not the norm Cancer paitents etc to get called into interviews like some of these mis-informed media brainwashed lot think. In fact given timeless doesnt even think you can go get an ESA form from your local Employment Services, im wondering even if it is media brainwashing but some other agenda, or just as i initially suspected, loony toon soap box dancing to shout how bad the conservative party is.
again you blame the media.. name one paper or channel that has had news about ATOS assessments and those with serious health issues being made to undertake assessments with so called medical professionals who have no medical background.

OH AND FURTHERMORE......... The person i completed forms for will NOT be called to an assessment or interviews with advisers. When their claim was approved within 2 weeks of completing the forms they write back informing you the claim was successful.
if they arent then they will be lucky, but lm sure some point in the coming months it will happen.

They also inform you and i quote the letter exactly "you will NOT need to attend any interviews or assessments unless you choose to do so".
oh they will call him/her in eventually and it wont be his/her choice, after all they want to cut the welfare bill down another few billion.

ENOUGH OF THIS CONSPIRACY CLAPTRAP TRIPE
no conspiracy about it, its happening its just no one really cares or even does any research on the subject.
 
Erm, you were wrong. You stated that people with cancer or mental health conditions don't have to attend assessments. You've now changed tack and state that people with terminal cancer don't have to attend assessments. Not really the same thing as your blanket statement. People undergoing chemo(e.g. oral chemo) often do have to attend medicals.

As for mental health -





So there we are, your post was inaccurate. :hrmph:

No i havent changed anything i clearly point out the person i made a claim for has cancer and its not known if it will be terminal or not. I said serious mental issues, i havent changed anything i stated right from the start.

Quoting from rethinks site who are a charity and in favour of everyone with even a minor disability being allowed benefit and not having to work is hardly evidence.

What ive pointed out is exactly what the forms state, what i have seen happen on another persons behalf is also exactly what the forms state.

To even suggest people who are at deaths door or have mental issues to the extent they wouldnt even be able to find their way home from an interview are being made to possibly work is utterly ridiculous. I have never heard so much complete and utter claptrap in my life.

One thing i will touch on in reply to TIMELESS is...... If you attend anywhere benefit related and the appointment is upstairs the premises has to have facilities for disabled people to get upstairs (IE a lift a wheelchair will fit in easily) If it has not you should demand assistance from them or insist they attend to you/your interview on the lower floor of the building. It is the LAW they provide disabled access to their premises.

Quite often they use the ploy of making you attend an interview which is "upstairs" hoping that you just walk up those stairs to it and thus suddenly invalidate the information you provided on the form, making the decision you are fit for work for them very easy. A very good ploy it is also IMO as it instantly weeds out a whole bunch of scroungers that shouldnt be getting benefits they are trying to claim. I suspect in many so called "documentary" (term used loosely) on TV had examples of things like this happening.

ANYONE who is refused benefit when clearly they need/deserve it i would support entirely, i also accept mistakes can and do happen. It is not the norm though as you are portraying.


PS ON A LIGHTER NOTE AND MORE ON TOPIC FOR ANYONE STILL READING THIS NOW DEGRADED DRIBBLE........

Congratulations to all the UK Olympians over the past couple of days that have earned a healthy haul of medals. No doubt some are still grumpy about that achievement and the games in general, rather than marvel and congratulate them its far easier to moan about the Olympics and shout nonsense at the government about the games also :rolleyes:
 
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No i havent changed anything i clearly point out the person i made a claim for has cancer and its not known if it will be terminal or not. I said serious mental issues, i havent changed anything i stated right from the start.

Quoting from rethinks site who are a charity and in favour of everyone with even a minor disability being allowed benefit and not having to work is hardly evidence.

Atos assessments for people undergoing treatment for cancer were covered in the recent C4 documentary, feel free to educate yourself. I'm afraid I can only summon contempt for your comment about Rethink, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps the recent judicial review victory, for people with mental health problems, against Work Capability Assessment interviews is imaginary? You do realise you have to have "serious" mental issues to not be fit for work in the first place?
 
name one paper or channel that has had news about ATOS assessments and those with serious health issues being made to undertake assessments with so called medical professionals who have no medical background.

Err Private Eye??

They also covered the case of a wheelchair user who had her allowance cancelled because she couldnt attend a meeting (upstairs and no lift).

Come ON guys, even when the dailys mention something like this, half the time they either lifted the story, or found out about the problem from reading P.I. themselves!!!

Bristol Heart Scandal
Great Ormond Street organ retention
Lockerbie
MPs Allowances
The NHS IT disaster
Cotswold Water Park
The care home furore last year.
The Vodaphone tax avoidance scandal.


the list goes on and on.
 
imho l make it a point to take everything with a pinch of salt coming from papers who still use the words lazy, scroungers and scum to discribe those who are on benefits regardless of how many years they may have worked and regardless of their situations.

suffice to say now days those claiming benefits are treated with contempt it doesnt matter who they are, lve seen ppl beat up outside the jobcentre.just because someone claimed a person was scrounging scum. then there is those who think most disabled are pretending.. a lady on my estate was moved because of vandalism, fist it was just small stuff like rubbish being thrown into her garden and missing planks on her fence eventually it progressed to having dog crap posted through her letter box, having her specially designed cars tires slashed and the straw that broke the camels back.. one morning the landlord was painting one of their vacant flats and stupidly left their van open and whoever was doing it totaled the ladies windscreen with a paint can not before covering the care in three different colors of paint, the lady in question is paraplegic and has been since she was a child.
 
Atos assessments for people undergoing treatment for cancer were covered in the recent C4 documentary, feel free to educate yourself. I'm afraid I can only summon contempt for your comment about Rethink, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps the recent judicial review victory, for people with mental health problems, against Work Capability Assessment interviews is imaginary? You do realise you have to have "serious" mental issues to not be fit for work in the first place?

Aliens at Area 51 were also once the subject of a C4 "documentary". I guess you believe that also?

imho l make it a point to take everything with a pinch of salt coming from papers who still use the words lazy, scroungers and scum to discribe those who are on benefits regardless of how many years they may have worked and regardless of their situations.

suffice to say now days those claiming benefits are treated with contempt it doesnt matter who they are, lve seen ppl beat up outside the jobcentre.just because someone claimed a person was scrounging scum. then there is those who think most disabled are pretending.. a lady on my estate was moved because of vandalism, fist it was just small stuff like rubbish being thrown into her garden and missing planks on her fence eventually it progressed to having dog crap posted through her letter box, having her specially designed cars tires slashed and the straw that broke the camels back.. one morning the landlord was painting one of their vacant flats and stupidly left their van open and whoever was doing it totaled the ladies windscreen with a paint can not before covering the care in three different colors of paint, the lady in question is paraplegic and has been since she was a child.

Sounds like a bunch of brat kids, born or grew up under the Blair/Brown era, the type that know the law cant touch them, a product of the Labour government you would sooner go back to. The era that saw a peak in knife crime and wild/feral chavy children out at all hours. Another wonderful thing they did for us all.
 
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Aliens at Area 51 were also once the subject of a C4 "documentary". I guess you believe that also?
there was also one on the BBC as well.. and quite a few papers have been reporting on the same subject recently.. which is quite strange compared to a year ago where every paper bandied around the mantra that those without jobs were scum.

l bet you wont believe this either, lm sure you may have read somewhere Cameron had a disabled son who died 2 years ago. well the Camerons claimed DLA to help with their son.. now Camerons wealth or at least known wealth is expected to be around 30million that was before his father left him an inheritance split in just a way that no inheritance tax was paid.. (another tax dodge)

now if you consider he was claiming DLA for his son when he had more than enough money himself and his family. as for the welfare reforms themselves they actually didnt make it through parliament at least not through the conventional means, the house of lords shot the reforms down so the Cons evoked(sp?) an archaic law which allowed them to go over the heads of everyone and push the reforms through, the law they used l believe is called "Financial Privilege" which sounds about right for a party of ex bankers.

Sounds like a bunch of brat kids, born or grew up under the Blair/Brown era, the type that know the law cant touch them, a product of the Labour government you would sooner go back to. The era that saw a peak in knife crime and wild/feral chavy children out at all hours. Another wonderful thing they did for us all.
ah blame the government for all the kids who cause trouble LOL god forbid their parents get the blame for bad parenting, seems to me you would have the government dictating how our children grow up.. the same current government whos Academies idea doesnt require teachers to be qualified any more.

still all that being said... you say knife crime l say RIOTS and l also say RIOTS again both the ones in the 80s and the ones that happened in the past couple of years have happened under a con government.. they didnt happen under a labour one.
 
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No i do blame the parents, it just so happens the kids like the parents are also a useless drain on society and grew up under the government you would prefer be in charge. Both a product of your Blair/Brown era.

Oh and as for riots......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Birmingham_race_riots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham_riots

AS just 2 examples.

So yeah precious Labour isnt immune to them either. Though personally how anyone would blame the Labour government for those 2 examples i gave or how anyone blames the Conservative party for the more recent London riots, defy s logic anyway as NONE of the from what i can see were the result of government decisions. So dunno why you even brought that into the equation......... Another media like headline "grabber" for your soap box speech? I have no doubt both of just those 2 examples would had been as bad or probably worse the the most recent London Riots if the likes of Twitter were around at the time (that came out in 2006, to save you going and checking).

I wont mention fuel protests and numerous other incidents, we have already established you have a short term memory. Where all this "oh so bad" cack happens under Conservative rule but never under Labour and civil unrest is always the fault of the government in power.

Oh and as for the rich claiming things they shouldnt, in addition to the Legal aid some Labour MPs claimed good old Tony sent his kids off to Private school at the tax payer expense also did he not?

FOR THE LAST TIME THEY ARE ALL USELESS AND THINKING ONE LOT IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER JUST SHOWS UTTER STUPIDITY.

If you want a political soap box to shout praise of Labour with brain washing dribble maybe find an appropriate website to do it.

EDIT: AS FOR DLA.......
Seems he and anyone that is disabled or has a disabled child is entitled, doesnt look to me like it has anything to do with income, wealth or even if you work or not.....
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTa...itsAndOtherSupport/Disabledpeople/DG_10018702

And i quote.....
"You can get Disability Living Allowance whether or not you work.

It isn't usually affected by any savings or income you may have."

So yep seems he was entirely within his right to claim. Rights he had and claimed which the Labour party made available it should be added. Maybe you should complain to them for allowing rich toffs to be able to claim it. Off course you should had known who can claim already as you are such an obvious walking encyclopaedia of everything benefit.
 
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The curvature of space/time is starting to show. ;)
 
Sorry Captain_Cretin but people that favour one party over another for no real reason really nark me. They can prattle on about how bad the party they dislike are but when face with a few home truths about the party they clearly support they like to sweep that mess all under the carpet.

I dont even know why ive participated so long counter pointing things they mention are so bad about the conservative party with similar things the Labour party have done or what has occurred in their reign. A hopeless cause obviously to try to demonstrate the same cack happens no matter who is in power and no one party is the saviour or killer of human kind.

Political party loyalty is STUPIDITY plain and simple.

It started out with a rant about the Olympics, that being valid or not in itself was arguable. The very fact it turns out now we are doing well in them still doesnt ease their bitterness (not seen any post from them in follow up which was positive). Its now moved on to blaming the current government for basically anything they can think of.

I suspect tomorrow it will be the Conservatives fault the sky like them is Blue....... No doubt theres been some media dribble or documentary about that at some point so that must be true also. Or more likely they have been glued to the square box again watching the news and are gonna harp on about the latest vote regarding Lords reform and how terrible it is a bunch of MPs didnt all vote a particular way. All quite pathetic and sad really.
 
Our political system is broken, and rife with fraud, corruption, and cronyism; from the very top of the party elite, to the lowest rungs of local Parish councils.
This is partly through greed, and partly through the need to appease the unwashed masses, so we will vote for them at the next election; so instead of doing what is best for the country, they do what is best for their political party (and steal as much for themselves as they can on the side).
This has been going on for AT LEAST 50 years, and probably longer, but it is only with the maturity of the internet that the systematic uncovering of the corruption became possible.
 
well put captain_cretin, however t4f doesnt believe ppl who have experienced the system he just blindly believes whats printed on the forms.. sad to say but they arent worth the paper they are written on. hell when l had to claim housing benefit with my parents (we all ran into rough times) they kept loosing me off their forms and this put us heavily in debt.
 
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well put captain_cretin, however t4f doesnt believe ppl who have experienced the system he just blindly believes whats printed on the forms.. sad to say but they arent worth the paper they are written on. hell when l had to claim housing benefit with my parents (we all ran into rough times) they kept loosing me off their forms and this put us heavily in debt.

Believing what is printed on a form and seeing what is printed on a form come to light in no way equates to me not believing a chunk of parliament are corrupt in some manner...... If you had paid any attention thats what ive been saying all along that none of them are any good at running things no matter what the party. A chunk of them all get up to the same no good they all have made the same screw ups, and thus supporting any one political party is stupidity.

The Labour party did some good things, the ease in which you can claim benefit though wasnt one of them. Its being fixed just not in the manner you like and that when you strip away all the rubbish is what this 6 pages boils down to. Many would argue as you have managed 6 pages of back and forth typing on here theres no reason even with any claimed disability you have that you couldnt do some type of computer work from home at the very least.
 
so name how many companies provide that? lve looked high and low for that kind of work but its just not out there. however then worst part of the reforms were immediately after Remploy shedding over a 1000 staff its one of the biggest employers of the disabled in the country but since it was government run they were all put onto ESA or jobseekers if ATOS said they could work. Remploy has since been told to shed another 1000 disabled staff by the cons.
 
PART of the problem with shirkers and disability benefit (or whatever it is called now), IS directly down to the last government, who encouraged doctors and the unemployed to find an excuse to register disabled as this got them off of the unemployment figures.

I have a cousin who suffered a brain tumour that affected his short term memory; he was perfectly capable of doing his job (plasterer), but anything beyond basic instruction had to be written down in case he forgot*. He was PUT onto the above, despite being able AND WILLING to work; in the end he started doing cash jobs to stave off the boredom.

* He was always as thick as pig poo, I couldnt see any difference after the tumour was found and removed.
 
PS, I have a long term, chronic illness, am I entitled to a penny?? NO!!!
 
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