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ONT/router battery backup using USB-C PD idea

Ian_R

Casual Member
Hi,

FTTP being installed soon in a rural home. No regular power outages but maybe once per year usually during winter (been very calm this year though) and was badly affected 2022 with a long 6 day outage due to lots of very strong storms.

During that last long outage phone service stayed up and while it wasn't critical it was a nice to have, I don't expect to be able to stay online etc during such an outage but it would be good to have some means of making an emergency phone call if necessary.

Was thinking about UPS options etc for the new ONT and router that will be providing the phone line shortly and it struck me that we already have multiple devices with quite large batteries that are kept charged: laptops, specifically laptops with USB-C PD. Researching this more I found these little modules: https://budgetlightforum.com/t/test-review-of-yzxstudio-zy12pdn-pd-trigger/58515 - module is a "ZY12PDN

It's a little circuit that accepts USB-C PD input and has a selectable voltage output that includes 12V... which made me think putting together a little box that can plug into USB-C PD capable laptops with barrel jack outputs that could power up the ONT and router to make an emergency phone call is entirely possible. Seems like the 5A current limit would be enough as well.

Wouldn't be looking to power anything long term but given the USB-C PD input this could of course be powered by normal power banks as well as laptops etc.

Anyone think this is a very silly idea for any reason?
 
My Community Fibre ONT power supply it's rated at 12v 0.5A so basically max use 6W. 6W is 144 Wh (Watt-Hours) for 24hs and 144 Wh at 12V is 12,000 mAh (Milliamp-Hours). Here is an Anker 20000mah power bank with 20W PD for £42.99. I suspect routers will need a lot more than that although in an amergency you could just connect your laptop directly to the ONT, assuming your ISP uses DHCP on the WAN. I think it will interesting to see if the FTTP line will survive a power cut, which will depend on how the FTTP network is provisioned and the nature of the fault. At the end of the day you may spend the money and it may still go down even if you have power to keep the ONT and router up.
 
Thanks for the information! the intention with something like this would be to just turn it on if a phone call needed to be made, run time so long as it could manage maybe an hour or two total would be fine.

You're right about it maybe all going down anyway, phone line only stayed working last time because I'm far enough away from the exchange where the damage wasn't as severe.

I'm wondering how much power Vodafone's router uses with wifi etc disabled, I'll keep researching :)
 
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Community Fibre left me a Linksys Tri-Band AX4200 Mesh WiFi 6 Router which uses 12V 3A max so 36W. 36W for 1hour will be 36Wh which need a 3,000 mAh to run for an hour. I would imagine the majority of that is used by the Quad-Core CPU and LAN/WAN ports. But obviously turning off WiFi will save some power. Having said that this shouldn't matter in your use case as 1 hour will be plenty.
 
There are a number of products in Amazon that do what you want out of the box, but reviews are mixed. This one has a DC output:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Krisdonia-25000mAh-Portable-Charger-Projector/dp/B078XRBQKB

So I presume you just need to find the right cable. This one even shows a picture with your intended setup:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3

61NLtVjZpbL._AC_SL1265_.jpg
 
Any power backup strategy has to include the devices you intend to use during any outage. For me it's a UPS supplying Comms ( central wall board and use of PoE) and a UPS covering the office. All of which will be rationed if it occurs. Non essential mesh etc would be turned off and office UPS can be transferred.

However if the outage is unknown then I will utilise the Travel Router/phone arrangement from my campervan. Which now includes a solar power pack as well solar panel/ leisure battery.

Travel routers are more likely to be low consumption devices and supportable from usb power packs for a reasonable time. So rather than keeping the totality of you network and it's enhanced functionality going it will be easier to switch to a minimised backup.

What is annoying is that we are forced by many ISPs to use their router simply to login. It would be better alround if we only had to keep the ONT up. I have mobile router and mifi options but ...

My view is ISPs should provide a low power login device (simply to provide WAN) or provide non propriety login that can be supported by generally available routers.

My daughter is on Hey! and has a combined Adtran ONT WIFI 6 router to power and the admin password doesn't work. Only option is mobile which is just not good enough.
 
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My view is ISPs should provide a low power login device (simply to provide WAN) or provide non propriety login that can be supported by generally available routers.
I think this is happening already for ISPs that use DHCP on their WAN. I am with Community Fibre now and they give a separate ONT and a router. Since the ONT simple works via DHCP on the WAN port any router would work with it and no login is required. In fact I can even connect my laptop directly to the ONT and get the public IP on my laptop. Although that is not a good idea at all as your machine will be subject to constant hacking attacks it work for an emergency.
The issue comes when ISPs use PPPoE which requires a client to authenticate. My understanding is that ISPs that use DHCP isolate customers using VLANs. But that has some limitations so larger ISPs like BT need to use PPPoE as a way of isolating customers. In the future it might be possible to have an integrated ONT/router which might makes things easier. In the same way that DSL modems slowly dissapeared and got integrated to routers as well.
 
Use of the ONT only is good but I am not a fan of integrated devices. Even if you turn off functionality you can’t always get the power down. The Altran for example is a bulky bit of kit which I had to make a bespoke wall mount for.

I’m looking for ISPs to provide a wired solution the size of the Edgerouter X and leave me to decide my own CPE kit (normal or backup). If you have separate kit things like WIFI access points can be turned off if not needed and kit can be upgraded incrementally or left if it meets the need.
 
Use of the ONT only is good but I am not a fan of integrated devices. Even if you turn off functionality you can’t always get the power down. The Altran for example is a bulky bit of kit which I had to make a bespoke wall mount for.

I’m looking for ISPs to provide a wired solution the size of the Edgerouter X and leave me to decide my own CPE kit (normal or backup). If you have separate kit things like WIFI access points can be turned off if not needed and kit can be upgraded incrementally or left if it meets the need.
In principle I agree with you but you got to see the ISP side of things. an integrated box will be cheaper to buy, supply, run and support. Most customers will not want to use their own equipment so will also prefer a single integrated box. They will consume less power, use less space, use a single power socket, etc. So yeah for advanced users separate devices it's best but we should take note 90% of people do want a single device. My preference will be for the ISP to allow third party devices to be used and even recommend which ones they think work best in their network.
 
From what I see from current bulky and inflexible offerings the router position is compromised including intruding within living spaces and sub-optimised WIFI coverage.

Most consumers don’t know what’s possible.
 
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There are a number of products in Amazon that do what you want out of the box, but reviews are mixed. This one has a DC output:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Krisdonia-25000mAh-Portable-Charger-Projector/dp/B078XRBQKB

So I presume you just need to find the right cable. This one even shows a picture with your intended setup:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yangers-uninterrupted-supply-8800mAh-battery/dp/B09GNV4FV3

61NLtVjZpbL._AC_SL1265_.jpg
That second one seems interesting and temptingly cheap, only issue I could forsee is the 1A 12V output not being enough for both ONT and router.
 
That second one seems interesting and temptingly cheap, only issue I could forsee is the 1A 12V output not being enough for both ONT and router.
yep 12v 1A = 12W of power max. I don't bother with these things personally, because power banks must support pass-thru charging to do it and many don't and I use either a proper UPS or a self-built UPS for my larger stuff. But if you go down the UPS route, get one where you can silence the beeps!!! Seriously, nothing worse than working at home during a power cut and constant BEEP BEEEP BEEEEEP from the UPS. I had to return an APC one because it had no facility to turn it off.

I live in a semi-rural area and we're quite used to power cuts. Most of them last 5 minutes, but occasionally a few last hours on end. So for things like WiFi / ONTs etc then I use a Cyberpower UPS. For ensuring I can power my laptop, screen, speakers etc I use a self-built UPS (batter, inverter, charger).
 
If you are willing to wait and take a gamble there are many more in AliExpress:

DC 12v 2A output
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005041407725.html

DC 12v 3A output
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32904077417.html

DC 12v 1A output
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005089193161.html

You could buy 2 to have one for each device if the output is not powerful enough. Some of these have high shipping charges and no reviews so you may need to keep searching for the right one. It does take a few weeks for things to arrive but I never had problems. I always check seller feedback and make sure I buy things I happy to keep as returns are too costly and impractical.
 
But if you go down the UPS route, get one where you can silence the beeps!!! Seriously, nothing worse than working at home during a power cut and constant BEEP BEEEP BEEEEEP from the UPS. I had to return an APC one because it had no facility to turn it off.
Tell me about it! A powercut here is like a symphony with my 6 UPS units singing at the same time!
 
If you are willing to wait and take a gamble there are many more in AliExpress:

DC 12v 2A output
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005041407725.html

DC 12v 3A output
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32904077417.html

DC 12v 1A output
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005089193161.html

You could buy 2 to have one for each device if the output is not powerful enough. Some of these have high shipping charges and no reviews so you may need to keep searching for the right one. It does take a few weeks for things to arrive but I never had problems. I always check seller feedback and make sure I buy things I happy to keep as returns are too costly and impractical.
The one with PoE is interesting. Does anyone know if the current gen of ONT's supplied by Openreach support PoE?
 
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The one with PoE is interesting. Does anyone know if the current gen of ONT's supplied by Openreach support PoE?
Ian even if the ONT doesn't support PoE you can buy a PoE Splitter like the one below and assuming the ONT doesn't exceed the splitter rating (12v 2A in this case) it will work fine.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Splitter-5-5x2-5mm-Standard-Ethernet-PS5712TG-25/dp/B09CYGW46K

There are 5V splitters too:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DSLRKIT-Splitter-Ethernet-802-3af-5-5x2-1mm/dp/B07ZH5V89T
 
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