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Openreach fttp - Aunties Neighbour has it, Aunty Can't get it

welshblob

Regular Member
Hi,

Sorry if this is has been asked before but I did a quick search and couldn't find anything. Helping out my auntie as she has Plusnet at the moment and is only getting 11Mbps down which varies downwards. She has looked on her account and supposedly can get between 30 and 50 Mbps for an extra £10 per month. This might be the difference between ADSL and VSDL looking at the BT Wholesale checker.

I started poking around wondering when she'll get fttp and determined she has a priority exchange and then realised her neighbour has had fttp installed! The OR checker for her address states its "Not yet available" whereas her neighbour's says its available and indeed they have had it installed.

So I checked the BT wholesale checker and bottom line:
Her address states : FTTP is not available.

Neighbours address states : Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG congested duct.
ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.

I assume UG = under ground? I'm not sure if congested duct is from the road to the property or the main duct in the road itself. The properties are lower than the road and the neighbour has it coming in overhead from the boundary wall to the property.

They appear to have stopped at the neighbours house and for the rest of the street/area fttp isn't available. So just wondering why this might be and who can we talk to, to understand the plans for when they will get back to cabling the street up? She spoke to Plusnet who I thought were supposed to ask OR but they fobbed her off to OR directed who just reiterated what their checker. They also said she should ask through her provider.

Other information that might be useful is that my aunties properly is a multiple dwelling with 6 flats in the block and we can see the current copper BT lines coming in from the road through the service area in some conduit.

Any help appreciated.

Cheers
 
Hi,

Sorry if this is has been asked before but I did a quick search and couldn't find anything. Helping out my auntie as she has Plusnet at the moment and is only getting 11Mbps down which varies downwards. She has looked on her account and supposedly can get between 30 and 50 Mbps for an extra £10 per month. This might be the difference between ADSL and VSDL looking at the BT Wholesale checker.

I started poking around wondering when she'll get fttp and determined she has a priority exchange and then realised her neighbour has had fttp installed! The OR checker for her address states its "Not yet available" whereas her neighbour's says its available and indeed they have had it installed.

So I checked the BT wholesale checker and bottom line:
Her address states : FTTP is not available.

Neighbours address states : Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG congested duct.
ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.

I assume UG = under ground? I'm not sure if congested duct is from the road to the property or the main duct in the road itself. The properties are lower than the road and the neighbour has it coming in overhead from the boundary wall to the property.

They appear to have stopped at the neighbours house and for the rest of the street/area fttp isn't available. So just wondering why this might be and who can we talk to, to understand the plans for when they will get back to cabling the street up? She spoke to Plusnet who I thought were supposed to ask OR but they fobbed her off to OR directed who just reiterated what their checker. They also said she should ask through her provider.

Other information that might be useful is that my aunties properly is a multiple dwelling with 6 flats in the block and we can see the current copper BT lines coming in from the road through the service area in some conduit.

Any help appreciated.

Cheers
It sounds to me that "No spare ports are available" means they need more fibre layed and adding a new CBT but since the ducts are congested they gave up. You are unlikely to find spare ports since most people don't give up they internet connection. But do keep an eye for houses being sold as there could be a brief moment where a port may become available as the seller cancels service.
 
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Well as FTTP enabled properties move over, that would free up FTTC ports

Re
'ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.'

That's just means it's a single port ONT (like 99% of folk have) and they have an ISP using it already
 
UG = Undergroud yes.

As for why.. Blocked ducts, spine issues, headend issues, OLT issues

We'd be guessing on this forum, to be honest. You're best route forward is this form - https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-availability---customer-form

Explain the above and ask why your Aunty can't get FTTP. Just take any response with a pinch of salt.
So with my help I got my auntie to complete that. Got a response back that as its a multi dwelling unit then she should raise it via another link. My auntie got permission from the directors of their block of flats (they own the freehold themselves). Raised the request on the form and gets a standard automated response back that they don't have a date when they will be cabling up that address and keep checking the checker!

Any other ideas on how to push them a bit?
 
You can't really, unless you want to pay (potentially) tens of thousands of pounds for FTTPoD. (EDIT: and I don't think you can do that for MDUs anyway)

Openreach are a commercial entity, they'll build when they want to build - and when they have the resources to do so (which are currently deployed in a massive country-wide FTTP build).

But if the wayleave has been submitted it will end up in a queue somewhere - and who knows, maybe in 12 or 18 months time it will be done.
 
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So with my help I got my auntie to complete that. Got a response back that as its a multi dwelling unit then she should raise it via another link. My auntie got permission from the directors of their block of flats (they own the freehold themselves). Raised the request on the form and gets a standard automated response back that they don't have a date when they will be cabling up that address and keep checking the checker!

Any other ideas on how to push them a bit?

Nothing you can do. It's likely when Openreach were building in the area they tried to find out who the freeholder of the block was and made no progress, so left capacity in the network and moved on.

Was the form you completed the landlord this one with freeholder details?
 
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Nothing you can do. It's likely when Openreach were building in the area they tried to find out who the freeholder of the block was and made no progress, so left capacity in the network and moved on.

Was the form you completed the landlord this one with freeholder details?
Yes it was that form. I'm not sure it was a case of skipping the property due to it being an mdu as they stopped at the neighbours and no one else in the street can get it. It's not your standard housing estate either so quite a nasty road it be installing services on which might have something to do with it.
 
So was poking around on bidb.uk and was marvelling at the work going on locally but didn't have a description of the jobs taking place. I also noticed that there is no data for my home town in wales where my aunt lives. I believe didb had to change data source last year so this might explain it.
Then stumbled across this ... https://mastdatabase.co.uk/maps/streetworks/ which does include the job description and wales ! So looking at my aunt's address it appears that this week Netomnia is going to be "locate and repair blockages in the verge/carriageway". I assume this is a good thing and this must be the result of them running fibre in the area? I also assume these must be the openreach ducts they use under the PIA and could be what was alluded to on the neighbours "congested duct" info on the wholesale checker? Anyway it feels like good news as Netomnia are potentially coming and will unblock the ducts for OR as well.
Another question so the jobs listed on bidb and the mastdb sites, would only be those that need permission? I assume not all "pulling fibre" through existing duct work would need permission? Only if it was to impact footpaths / carriageways?
 
I suits maybe less of a duct issue, more it being an MDU. With an. MDU you need permission from freeholder/management company, a suitable location is needed for the fibre joint box and internal cable routes.

For some freeholder/management companies they don't make it easy, and don't always respond quickly. There might also be fees to the freeholder/management company, which make it less attractive
 
I suits maybe less of a duct issue, more it being an MDU. With an. MDU you need permission from freeholder/management company, a suitable location is needed for the fibre joint box and internal cable routes.

For some freeholder/management companies they don't make it easy, and don't always respond quickly. There might also be fees to the freeholder/management company, which make it less attractive
The owners of the flats are directors of the company that owns the freehold. Thus they had permission to raise the MDU request within 24 hrs and I still feel the OR response was automated based on postcode / address.
We've had a look previously and can see where the current copper cabling comes in which is via an under croft to the car park from the road. In theory it should be able to follow a similar path for distribution to each flat that wants it as there is already a badly installed junction box in the under croft that goes to service ducts (newer flats) or external overhead (older flats). All this would be covered if they would just come onsite and perform a survey. Whether the ducts are blocked / full in the road is another question.
Also for an MDU then what is normally installed, one fibre per flat or a single fibre per MDU and a multiple ONT which then splits it out? There are 5 flats so it's not like its a big block and should be fairly straight forward once they get the fibre from the road into the under croft.
Wondering whether to drop netomnia an email to say once they have unblocked the ducts in the road then whether they have any plans to run the fibre and state the fact its an MDU shouldn't be an issue.
 
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Fibre to each unit and an ONT in each flat - the way the service is presented to end customers has to be the same so that ISP troubleshooting steps including "what colour lights are showing on the ONT" are common across all installation methods.

Also having the equipment that is installed being completely passive means nobody has to provide power to it, and argue over who pays the electricity bill.
 
It would be one fibre per flat, probably a single cable with multiple fibres to a splice/junction box, then cable with a single fibre per property.

I think MDUs often get skipped initially, as it's not the same low hanging fruit as individual houses. The every flat is a member thing can work against you too. They need to negotiate with effectively everyone, to get a small number of properties. Compare that to a big social housing company, where they can maybe get permission for 1000 houses for similar effort.
 
Also having the equipment that is installed being completely passive means nobody has to provide power to it, and argue over who pays the electricity bill.
Id guess in the type of property being talked about a lot of the arguments would be around concealment and making good. If there are riser cupboards with space then it's easy, if it's surface mounting cables in hallways I can imagine some residents being unhappy
 
Fibre to each unit and an ONT in each flat - the way the service is presented to end customers has to be the same so that ISP troubleshooting steps including "what colour lights are showing on the ONT" are common across all installation methods.

Also having the equipment that is installed being completely passive means nobody has to provide power to it, and argue over who pays the electricity bill.
Power isn't an issue as the undercroft has a supply which is billed to the management company. However I get the point about wanting it to be a standard install for each flat.
 
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It would be one fibre per flat, probably a single cable with multiple fibres to a splice/junction box, then cable with a single fibre per property.

I think MDUs often get skipped initially, as it's not the same low hanging fruit as individual houses. The every flat is a member thing can work against you too. They need to negotiate with effectively everyone, to get a small number of properties. Compare that to a big social housing company, where they can maybe get permission for 1000 houses for similar effort.
Yeah appreciate it can be more tricky with an MDU which is why I want to try and help both my Aunt and her neighbours understand what this means whilst providing the relevant info to OR or equiv. Bottom line its about choice for each flat as not all of them would necessarily take it anyway.

Ideally it would be good to get both OR and Netomnia installed to give them a lot of choice but think that would be tricky. Now I'm wondering if there was a choice of one or the other then who would you go for. Instinctively with Netomnia offering symmetrical speeds and lower cost right now then they seem the obvious provider. However that doesn't really provide that much choice of switching ISP in the future and so OR might be the better option.

Ironically if all the flats are currently getting 11Mbps then they could all share one 150Mbps connection and be impressed by such a bump in speed. Imagine how a bump to 900Mbps would be for them! If you could share the connection then I guess that would need to be owned by the management company, a business service and then distribution would be the responsibility of the management company. I have thought about this but the support aspect would be a challenge given I don't live locally.
 
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Id guess in the type of property being talked about a lot of the arguments would be around concealment and making good. If there are riser cupboards with space then it's easy, if it's surface mounting cables in hallways I can imagine some residents being unhappy
So the property consists of a rather large old house which was split into 3 flats. Then in the late 80's / early 90's a new smaller block of 3 were built onto the side. The top two flats were then knocked through in the early 2000's to give 5 flats in total.

The new block should be fine with an obvious service duct running horizontally from the under croft to another vertical service duct which is next to the door to each flat, with removable panels for access. The current BT socket in each flat appears to back onto the service duct so I'd imagine that will be straight forward to add an ONT next to it (assume the original copper phone line/socket stays installed).

The two remaining older flats also have their phone line coming from the under croft but are provided by over head cables to the outside of each. I have no idea how they would be connected internally but I don't see this as being that much different from any other property at that point.
 
It sounds to me that "No spare ports are available" means they need more fibre layed and adding a new CBT but since the ducts are congested they gave up. You are unlikely to find spare ports since most people don't give up they internet connection. But do keep an eye for houses being sold as there could be a brief moment where a port may become available as the seller cancels service.
No spare ports relates to the ONT in the property. There are CBT ports available: that is confirmed by that they can order a second ONT.

For a full network you'll get the message 'Network is at capacity so a new ONT cannot be ordered.'.

See attached: refers to a property with a multiport ONT and full CBT.
 

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So a few months later and I'm back and the openreach checker is showing she can now get fttp and as she is in contract with Plusnet until August 2025 she has gone with them for an upgrade 10Mbps to 500Mbps, even her new upload speed will be higher than the old download! They have also sold her inbound landline via BT for £5 a month which I haven't heard of before so maybe someone here knows more about it?

I note on the BT wholesale checker her Installation process is stated as KCI2 Assure with the comments ...

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Multi Dwelling Unit Residential MDU Built to Curtilage External Build required.
FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.
As a fibre priority exchange, FTTP has priority over other products if available at the address

Her altnet, Netonmia have changed their availability for her address to "in design" and the guy on the phone this morning said it might not be until next year until ready although I do know they have been unblocking ducts and pulling fibre in the area. To best honest I don't think she will benefit from the symmetrical speed and she is in contract with plusnet so there is no real point in waiting. Also she should have more choice of providers when it comes to contract renewal and could even go with netonmia then.
 
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