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Openreach FTTP install - ONT in loft?

plunet

ULTIMATE Member
Hello, I'm about to push the button on an FTTP install. My property is in a road primarily served by overhead wires but historically my property was served by an underground cable. There's no duct and I've already verbally confirmed with a OR engineer who was doing a survey recently that if I wish to have FTTP it will be overhead. My Openreach copper line has not been active for over 14 years and there's actually no internal master socket or cabling, it just ends at the junction box at low level on the front wall.

I know that a "standard" proceedure will be run the overhead to the eves, run the cable down the external wall to a mutually agreed place to drill through where the ONT needs to go near a power socket and usually near where the old copper master socket was.

My existing VirginMedia service (broadband only) is in the loft along with all the Cat5e that I have installed around the house. Access to the loft is via a sensible size crawl-through hatch from a loft conversion room (no ladder) and the area where the engineer needs to work is boarded out and although height resrticted is quite safe to work sitting on a small stool. I would be happy to crawl over an unboarded area with the fibre glass insulation to the area of eves where the cable would probably come in and put a drawstring or cable in place in advance so the engineer can use this to pull their new cable through to the boarded out area in front of the access hatch.

What are the chances that I can pursuade the engineer from Openreach to install the ONT in my loft if I provide them a drawstring and a safe working area? Does anyone have any idea what the Openreach rules around this? Thanks
 
I suspect they'll be able to accommodate that, but it will be down to the engineers own assessment. Some properties require a lot more work and even extra costs, but your setup may actually be quicker, and so I doubt they'd have too many concerns. But as I say, it'll be down to the engineer to assess and agree with you what they can do. Please let us know how it goes.
 
I’m an Openreach Engineer myself.

To answer the question on rules: ridiculously strict. They stipulate that the loft must be boarded so that at no point are you any closer to 2m from the edge of a board. It must be ventilated and have sufficient lighting. Essentially our rule book tells us to avoid working in lofts at all costs.

That said, it all comes down to the engineer and their risk assessment, as well as how close they deem they can work to the rules. Our work gets audited, and questions could be asked about how we managed to do the job whilst following the health and safety policies. This could potentially result in the engineer losing their job as the companies “number one priority” is safety and it’s taken so very seriously.

On the day, I would ask nicely whilst offering a cuppa, get them to have a look and offer to help with anything you can for your best chance of it getting done. If they refuse (which I hope you can appreciate is understandable) then I’m sure they will try to come up with a suitable alternative with you.
 
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Thanks for the very practical update @GeorgeH00 - I suspected that the rules would be very much along what you have described, but if I make it easy for the installation engineer and reduce their risks and along with a cup of tea and maybe biscuits(!) I can maximise my chances.

Thinking about it, putting some copex tubing suitably attached to rafters and joists in between the eves and the install point just inside the loft access hatch it might make it an even easier ask ;)

I will report back on how it goes....
 
Well just to update this, I have my ONT in the loft. I did some prep work installing some 20mm copex (flexible trunking) with a drawwire in it from the eves of my property into the loft adjacent to the loft access hatch. Also did a bit of a tidy up before the install day, because there was some dust and clutter.

Openreach turned up and started to look at the "wrong" telegraph pole in the street and my heart sank. I had put the copex popping out of the eves on one corner of the house that was in fact closer to another pole based upon a conversation I had with an Openreach engineer during the earlier buildout of FTTP. Anyway, they came in and looked at my handiwork and the access into the loft and declared that it would be absolutely no problem whatsoever to install into the loft - the copex was going to make their life supereasy, and they would get the circuit rebuilt onto the other telegraph pole.

I had left a good length on the copex so that it could extend out of the loft into the room beyond the loft hatch if going into the loft was going to be offlimits but in the event this was not needed, they were totally happy to work in the loft, and even suggested that even if I hadn't put the copex in place they personally would have been happy to monkey over the fibreglass to get to the eves. Yeh, there were "rules", but there was also common sense. They also initially suggested that there would be a splicing box on the outside of house but I did query whether it couldn't go inside, and it also ended up in the loft :)

The physical install was done within an hour - it took an extra 15mins for the circuit rebuild to go through, but that was enough time for a 2nd cuppa and a couple more biscuits for the engineers whilst on the phone to the provisioning helpdesk to get the rebuild done.

So ONTs in an exposed loft, whilst probably against the rules are in principle possible, but it will depend upon the engineers own risk assessment of your loft space, and obviously do your best to make it easy for the engineers to help you achieve what you want.
 
That sounds like a good result!
 
Nice. Hoping for the same when they finally get to my place. My VM is up there too. When the VM chap came to connect his heart sank thinking he'd have re recable externally as they say no loft work.
2 mins later when I explained i'd already ran my own coax from the terminator that was under the insulation in the loft to the room I wanted the service in he looked at me quizzically, slapped a meter on the cable (in a cupboard where to modem was to live) then gave me a handful of terminators to cap off the other tv points in the house.
Left very happy having gone from running an hour late to being bang on time.
I'll be doing the copex too if OR (or an altnet) ever deem my town worthy of FTTP.
 
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Sorry to bump an old thread but I think my scenario is relevant.

We are currently on copper and when I change providers will be FTTP (Openreach). Lines come in overhead in this street and fiber will arrive at the bungalow at the "wrong" side of the property.

If I understand correctly, after the cable arrives at the eaves it has to remain external and go down to near ground level where it will terminate at a "customer splice point". The cable from there will go to the ONT and may go internally.

As I want to minimise the external cabling, my plan is run a flexible conduit with drawstring through the attic so that the cable from the CSP can go back up the outside wall to the eaves, through the conduit to the eaves at the other side of the bungalow and then inside from there.

So questions:

Will this fall within what engineers are permitted to do?

Is the CSP mandatory or could the cable from the pole go directly to the ONT via the conduit?

Do I need the conduit at or or will the engineer just be happy for ME to go in the loft and pull the cable through ?

Thx in advance.
 
Sorry to bump an old thread but I think my scenario is relevant.

We are currently on copper and when I change providers will be FTTP (Openreach). Lines come in overhead in this street and fiber will arrive at the bungalow at the "wrong" side of the property.

If I understand correctly, after the cable arrives at the eaves it has to remain external and go down to near ground level where it will terminate at a "customer splice point". The cable from there will go to the ONT and may go internally.

As I want to minimise the external cabling, my plan is run a flexible conduit with drawstring through the attic so that the cable from the CSP can go back up the outside wall to the eaves, through the conduit to the eaves at the other side of the bungalow and then inside from there.

So questions:

Will this fall within what engineers are permitted to do?

Is the CSP mandatory or could the cable from the pole go directly to the ONT via the conduit?

Do I need the conduit at or or will the engineer just be happy for ME to go in the loft and pull the cable through ?

Thx in advance.
CSP is mandatory. The drop cables used are unterminated at the premises end so need splicing onto a pigtail at the CSP in order to have the correct connector for the ONT.

Regarding your second point, as with other responses to OP, this will very much depend on your installing engineer on the day.
 
From my install, the CSP does not have to be external, mine is in the loft. Very close to the ONT. They were going to put it external but I just said "do you have to?" and it didn't ;)

I would suggest in terms of liabilities and stuff that working with the engineer on the day is probably problematic... "Oh the engineer said to pull this cable... and the next thing I knew I had fallen from the loft through the ceiling into the room below...." Whilst they will be happy for any prep you have done to make their job easier, it's probably better for them if you can stand back and not do too much during the visit, other than make a drink and offer edible treats.

So I would suggest running a conduit preferably with a drawstring in for any awkward runs and minimising any requirement for the engineer to need to go into unboarded areas of the loft is going to be preferable if you want to get it installed as you would prefer. YMMV whether you have a flexible individual or a jobsworth on the day. Good luck!
 
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CSP is mandatory. The drop cables used are unterminated at the premises end so need splicing onto a pigtail at the CSP in order to have the correct connector for the ONT.
Thanks for that. The ONT would be about 20 meters from the CSP. Do they have pigtails that long or am I barking up the wrong tree?
 
I had the CSP fitted internally right next to the ONT, fibre runs out a conduit I installed in a 2 ft stone wall then down the wall into a 28m run of 57mm ducting to a box with the CBT. The engineer had various lengths of fibre to run from the CBT to the CSP, he used a 40m length.
 
Thanks for that. The ONT would be about 20 meters from the CSP. Do they have pigtails that long or am I barking up the wrong tree?
The "inside/out" cable will be spliced at the CSP to the drop cable from the CBT on the serving pole/chamber. Openreach engineers and subcontractors have various lengths of inside/out cable with them, so 20 metres will be no problem.


By the way I'm not sure who called this a 'pig-tail' but that's the incorrect description. Sorry to be pedantic but with fibre cabling, a pigtail is a very short (typically 30 to 60 cm) pre-connectorised tail. Hence the name.
 
The "inside/out" cable will be spliced at the CSP to the drop cable from the CBT on the serving pole/chamber. Openreach engineers and subcontractors have various lengths of inside/out cable with them, so 20 metres will be no problem.


By the way I'm not sure who called this a 'pig-tail' but that's the incorrect description. Sorry to be pedantic but with fibre cabling, a pigtail is a very short (typically 30 to 60 cm) pre-connectorised tail. Hence the name.
So according to that link the Dexgreen cable is 5.0mm outer diameter and unterminated on one end. If I install a 6.5mm conduit, then there should be plenty of space to pull the cable through (from the ONT end).

Great info. Thank you very much.
 
So according to that link the Dexgreen cable is 5.0mm outer diameter and unterminated on one end. If I install a 6.5mm conduit, then there should be plenty of space to pull the cable through (from the ONT end).

Great info. Thank you very much.
6.5mm could be a bit tight, especially for pulling through with some kind of knot or joint, it might be safer to go for a slightly larger internal diameter if it's easy or possible to do that.
 
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