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Openreach stalled FTTP installs for premises with care alarms?

ascobie

Casual Member
Hi,

Briefly: Zen have told me that Openreach have completely stalled FTTP installs for premises with existing care alarms. Does anyone know if this is true and, if so, the reasoning?

Full story: I've been attempting to organise a FTTP install with Zen for my elderly mother. The order went through successfully and Openreach turned up within a few weeks to do the install. When the installer looked at the existing install she stated that she couldn't proceed because my mother had a care alarm and that a UPS would need to be arranged by Zen to keep the router powered during a power outage. Fair enough, I thought, so contacted Zen who said they would provide the necessary kit and rescheduled the install. I also contacted the care alarm company who said that they would ship an IP version of their care alarm. Zen then contacted me, a few days later, to say that Openreach have completely stalled FTTP installs for premises with care alarms.

Thanks
 
There may be problems with wayleaves etc, Openreach aren't going to stall an install without a reason as it's technically losing them money.
 
I don't think it's a problem with wayleaves - FTTP has already been installed into the (multi-premise) building with termination points outside each flat. All they need to do is the last patch to the ONT box.
 
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Once you have the IP care alarm and the UPS from Zen then the installation can go ahead, you just need Zen to confirm with OR that it’s ready.
 
Once you have the IP care alarm and the UPS from Zen then the installation can go ahead, you just need Zen to confirm with OR that it’s ready.
That's what the Openreach engineer and Zen both expected, but when Zen attempted to reschedule the appointment they were apparently told that all such installs are currently stalled.
 
Who at Zen told you this? It smells.
Their order team. They say that it's a nationwide stall with no projected date for resolution. The Openreach engineer who came to do the initial install said that a change in the rules had been introduced due to a number of unfortunate incidents during power failures.
 
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I really hope that this isn't Zen not wanting to have to provide a UPS for the FritzBox router........
 
Hi,

Briefly: Zen have told me that Openreach have completely stalled FTTP installs for premises with existing care alarms. Does anyone know if this is true and, if so, the reasoning?

Full story: I've been attempting to organise a FTTP install with Zen for my elderly mother. The order went through successfully and Openreach turned up within a few weeks to do the install. When the installer looked at the existing install she stated that she couldn't proceed because my mother had a care alarm and that a UPS would need to be arranged by Zen to keep the router powered during a power outage. Fair enough, I thought, so contacted Zen who said they would provide the necessary kit and rescheduled the install. I also contacted the care alarm company who said that they would ship an IP version of their care alarm. Zen then contacted me, a few days later, to say that Openreach have completely stalled FTTP installs for premises with care alarms.

Thanks
I've personally not seen any briefing from either Openreach or BTW advising as such.
@aquiss have you ever had a numpty Openreach engineer disconnect a valid FTTC connection with working PSTN when installing an FTTP connection for another Communication Provider?
I have, since September it's very painful to try and get that line back, especially with the Copper Stop Sell and Openreach slowly stopping the LLU providers to install any copper LLU services.

@ascobie Yes I've seen it occur, several occurrences of Openreach engineers disconnecting existing PSTN and Care lines believing they are from the same Communication Provider, and that they are carrying out the correct process and procedure.
 
Despite being asked to put the install on hold until a resolution is found, Zen have decided to cancel the install saying that Openreach won't permit them to go ahead. And, of course, I can't opt for FTTC because that product has now been withdrawn for new installs at the relevant exchange.
 
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@aquiss have you ever had a numpty Openreach engineer disconnect a valid FTTC connection with working PSTN when installing an FTTP connection for another Communication Provider?
I have, since September it's very painful to try and get that line back, especially with the Copper Stop Sell and Openreach slowly stopping the LLU providers to install any copper LLU services.

Rare, but yes I have. As you say, since September issues related to PSTN has become frustrating annoying to resolve.
 
I believe the openreach staff have been briefed to ask if the end user has a care alarm and if they.do , or cannot confirm i.e. they are not present, they have been told not to go ahead
 
There was a news item about this in one of the comics recently, Computeractive I think, (I occasionally flick through a digital copy of this mag on my library's website). As I recall, the article said BT & Virgin had agreed to pause forced rollouts of VoIP following a meeting between "government officials" and "technology companies" to discuss some recent issues. Zen weren't mentioned, but possibly they were involved too. I don't think the article gave any references. Reportedly the companies are getting a bit miffed because they get blamed when they don't always know that telecare devices are present, and they allege local authorities & telecare firms are less than forthcoming about sharing relevant info.
 
There was a news item about this in one of the comics recently, Computeractive I think, (I occasionally flick through a digital copy of this mag on my library's website). As I recall, the article said BT & Virgin had agreed to pause forced rollouts of VoIP following a meeting between "government officials" and "technology companies" to discuss some recent issues. Zen weren't mentioned, but possibly they were involved too. I don't think the article gave any references. Reportedly the companies are getting a bit miffed because they get blamed when they don't always know that telecare devices are present, and they allege local authorities & telecare firms are less than forthcoming about sharing relevant info.
Thanks! Very useful. I'm guessing that by BT, they mean BT Openreach, which is what Zen uses for FTTP.

Here's the relevant communication from BT - https://newsroom.bt.com/digital-voice-signing-up-to-the-charter-of-commitments/. The situation is more nuanced than Zen stated so I will be escalating with them - of course, it's quite possible that their OpenReach contact are misinterpreting the situation.
 
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Here's the relevant communication from BT - https://newsroom.bt.com/digital-voice-signing-up-to-the-charter-of-commitments/. The situation is more nuanced than Zen stated so I will be escalating with them - of course, it's quite possible that their OpenReach contact are misinterpreting the situation.

They absolutely are misinterpreting. Even though the reply linked does mean Consumer, this part is the key:

"For those who use telecare, we will only switch them to Digital Voice where we, the telecare provider or the customer can confirm their service is compatible and functions using a digital landline."

The process is inform, gain consent/give time to call (6-8 weeks if I remember, but could be wrong) and defer to allow time for an IP or other solution, then proceed.

Of course, thats the direct Consumer process - Zen may have a different approach in their system (which seems a bit odd, alas different approaches all round!) but there's been no comms I've seen OR end to assume they won't do the job they've been assigned unles there's a larger complex install.
 
Despite being asked to put the install on hold until a resolution is found, Zen have decided to cancel the install saying that Openreach won't permit them to go ahead. And, of course, I can't opt for FTTC because that product has now been withdrawn for new installs at the relevant exchange.
That is absolutely ridiculous! How are Openreach meeting USO?
 
UPDATE: Having arranged to have my mother's telecare device replaced with one that uses the mobile network instead of the existing copper landline, I attempted again to have FTTP installed. All went reasonably smoothly with Zen who reckoned that the order would go through fine. Install was scheduled for today, but engineer called first thing to ask if my mother has a telecare device. I told her yes, but not one connected to openreach's network. She said that her understanding was that the install still couldn't go ahead, but would ask management. Soon after I received a phone call from someone claiming to be the Openreach Regional Manager for South East Scotland, who said that Ofcom have mandated that no FTTP installs can proceed for any premises with a telecare device, regardless of how that device is connected! Absolutely crazy!
 
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