OutdoorRouter with LPDA rural setup help

[Al3x]

Hello,
first post but have been reading lots of threads for months on here and learned lots- thanks everyone!

We ditched our BT copper line a couple of years back and went for a B525 setup on Three. Really happy with the 25-30 Mb down until recently.

Obviously with more mast congestion and an increase of our own demands we've seen a big drop in speeds. I decided to stump up for an external Cat6 router from OutdoorRouter EZR30 with their LPDA directional antennas to see if i can improve this. Climbed on to the roof and was very disappointed to only get the following readings:


RSRP -88 dBm
RSRQ -12 dBm
RSSI -53 dBm
SNR 10.4 dB

This gives me 10-15 down and 30 up...

This seems to be the best I can capture with the antennas in their current configuration and aim, so almost no point going through the trouble of fixing this chunky rig to the house...

The postcode is HR9 7QW if anyone is able to assist with locating a better mast? But i've tried in all 360 from the roof and cell 2452736 about 3km away line of sight(ish) seems to give the best response, but clearly the quality and SNR isn't that good...

Any help greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance
Alex

 

[MrDave]

Do you know what bands you are connecting to?

The antenna seems to be a wide band which might not be the best option. I assume you have 2 of these antenna connected?

Someone on here suggested it might be best to get an antenna that focuses on a single band or narrower band limits.

 

[Al3x]

Band 3 as below

Mobile Operator 3
Mobile Connection QMI: Connected
Network Band LTE EUTRAN-3

I assumed directional would be the best option in my environment, didn't consider the bands these antennas cover...

Yes I'm running a pair of them in a 45 degree to the horizon orthogonal config. Not sure how much vertical separation plays a part...

 

[TTJJ]

It’s much likely to be the congestion on the network core itself rather than congestion on the mast. Too many people have tried and failed to achieve better with fancy antennas on Three as the issue is almost never with the mast itself. If you managed to achieve higher stable speeds before and the mast hasn’t moved or a housing development has gone up it’s very unlikely to be the issue.

 

[GavinAshford]

I don't think the EZR30 Cat6 router can aggregate B3+1 so you're losing speed there versus the B525 if your mast has B1 deployed to it (cellmapper has an outage at the moment so I can't check). It'll be aggregating B3+20 or B1+20 at the most, or maybe just doing a single band (no aggregation).

From your metrics they're mostly OK given you say you're a mile or so away, SINR could be improved but I'd expect a directional antenna to help that. Whats the cable quality like that you are using and/or how long is the run to the router from the antenna?

Edit: now that cellmapper is back up it seems that mast only does 3+20 anyway.
What cell does your B525 latch onto on its own (no external antenna)?

 

[Al3x]

The pair of of antennas I’m using are these log periodic directional:

LPDA Outdoor 4G Cellular Log-periodic Antenna

LPDA 4G outdoor Antenna optimized for the Outdoor 4G Router pointing to the mobile signal tower to capture stronger 3G/4G signals.

www.outdoorrouter.com

And here’s a pic of my setup

was trying different vertical separations here, to little effect...

 

[Buggerlugz]

Gavin, can you give some clarity to my murky thinking here?

If the masts themselves are unlikely to be contended and actually have enough bandwidth/spectrum, but the three network core (backhaul?) is highly contended, how does that work when comparing it to say a "normal" BT supplied ISP from a street cabinet?

What I mean is, "from the cabinet" and "from the mast" are they, the same thing, or not? And what does that mean for LTE home broadband customers, if what we're seeing isn't mast/spectrum contention?

And as I'm now seeing worse speeds on 4g+ than regular 4g, could that be more backhaul related than a lack of spectrum?

 

[kommando828]

If 4G+ is band 3 + band 20 then you gain nothing over band 3 on its own. Three only has 5mhz bandwidth on B20 and the overhead ie losses of 4G+ equal or are more than the gain from B20. I have turned off B20 and as my Three mast does not have B1 or B32 I stick with B3 alone for best speeds.

 

[Buggerlugz]

I've turned off band 20 too, my 4G+ is bands 1 and 3. But I find band 3 on its own is always faster, the addition of band 1 initially was an improvement, but after a week it seriously impacted the speeds. Now band 3 on its own is faster than both 1 and 3 together for me. This makes me think the back-haul of the core network of three is the issue not the mast.

Band 20 on its own is pointless, its too small spectrum to carry anything worthwhile, you won't gain anything adding band 20 to band 3. Its only good for long distance transmission, nothing more.

Like TTJJ said above, if more people invest in antenna and see no improvement, its unlikely to be the masts that are the problem, its the journey from the core to and from the mast, not the airwaves bit from the mast to the customer.

 

[Al3x]

Thanks for the comments everyone

Considering all of the above and reading the other threads, I'm now looking at getting an EE sim

It's obviously more expensive, but I think £35 pm is still reasonable for unlimited data if this improves my connection speed and stability.

I'll feedback when I've got one. Any considerations/limitations before i make the jump?

 

[MrDave]

Thanks for the comments everyone

Considering all of the above and reading the other threads, I'm now looking at getting an EE sim

It's obviously more expensive, but I think £35 pm is still reasonable for unlimited data if this improves my connection speed and stability.

I'll feedback when I've got one. Any considerations/limitations before i make the jump?

Have you considered Vodafone? They have some decent cashback deals on unlimited max package, can be as cheap as £13.50 over 24 months.

 

[TTJJ]

Thanks for the comments everyone

Considering all of the above and reading the other threads, I'm now looking at getting an EE sim

It's obviously more expensive, but I think £35 pm is still reasonable for unlimited data if this improves my connection speed and stability.

I'll feedback when I've got one. Any considerations/limitations before i make the jump?

As MrDave says above Vodafone is well worth considering. I’ve switched my mums Three B535 over to Vodafone just over a month ago and it’s been nothing but reliable with great speeds. Little to no slowdown even at peak times when I’ve tested it.

Plus it has the slight advantage that they don’t mess up your normal internet traffic with their strange IPv4/6 setup that EE has.

 

[Al3x]

Have a work Voda sim I’ve tried in the B525 and wasn’t that impressed by the speeds. But as I’ve gone through the hassle of setting up a test rig on my roof, I might as well pop that sim in there too for good measure! Fingers crossed!
The EE trial gave significantly better results 35Mb down and up, but I tbh I was expecting results in the 50’s! One of my neighbours who is in a better LoS position to a different mast (used to get) speeds in the 80’s!!!
Don’t know if things with EE have also degraded with the pandemic?
What are the weird IPv4/6 issues on EE and how would this affect us?

 

[Al3x]

I don't think the EZR30 Cat6 router can aggregate B3+1 so you're losing speed there versus the B525 if your mast has B1 deployed to it (cellmapper has an outage at the moment so I can't check). It'll be aggregating B3+20 or B1+20 at the most, or maybe just doing a single band (no

On this note - I found out from speaking to the OutdoorRouter people that you CAN indeed change and lock the bands for CA, but it requires PUTTY and SSH... some skills I haven’t learned yet and that’s a job for the weekend

https://ezr33.docs.outdoorrouter.com/v/ev3117/configuration/mobile-modem/band-lock

 

[Al3x]

Edit: now that cellmapper is back up it seems that mast only does 3+20 anyway.
What cell does your B525 latch onto on its own (no external antenna)?

Sorry Gavin- didn’t notice this edit
Let’s see... this is from the B525 now:

 

[Al3x]

So, should I try and hunt around for a B1&3 mast ideally and try to lock to those two bands? Not sure I’ve got anything with B1 tbh with decent RSRP&SNR?

 

[GavinAshford]

If the hardware isn't capable of aggregating 3+1 (which I don't think it is when I looked at a spec PDF). So no amount of band locking would get you 3+1 if there was any B1 around you (which it doesn't look like there is)

The metrics aren't overly different between the B525 and your other router with an antenna. Are the speeds similar too? Have you tried aiming the antenna at the same mast the 525 attached to?

 

[Al3x]

I'm not sure how to convert 5691/0 to a mast id i can recognise on cellmapper?

and yes frustratingly speeds only slightly faster up on the roof with directional antennas!

 

[GavinAshford]

I'm not sure how to convert 5691/0 to a mast id i can recognise on cellmapper?

and yes frustratingly speeds only slightly faster up on the roof with directional antennas!

5691 is the eNB (mast) and 0 is the sector on it. I don't know why the B525 displays it like that when others don't.