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Phrom/webwise poll

If your ISP was to start to use Phorm/Webwise would you opt-in or opt-out

  • opt-in so yes would allow phorm to monitor surfing habits, everything I see on the internet

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    32
I think that shelving a forum into nitches that host differnt arguments stifles the vibrancy of a discussion group. There is very little interchange with that hiving off.

And the forum will seem much more dynamic if all the boards were to be merged.

As for disruptive behaviour. it goes with the territory of the internets. All you can hope for is that regulators kill swiftboatmen as soon as they appear. Trolls can easily be mashed once they leave spoor.

It can be fun flaming them. In fact, if an ISP discussion group can't handle trolls.....

But how many comments from unregistered members are actually of interest, and not flames? Very little, or none. It doesnt 'stifle' it at all.

It doesnt have to be disruptive. Simple fact is the trolls will soon lose interest when they have to register multiple times, or they will have to post something other than rubbish to keep under one username.

It obviously diverts the discussion when some moron from Phorm post threats.
 
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Edited out since you posted in a manner that breaks the forum rules..
 
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wanna know the best way to beat a troll/flamer? act like they dont exist... problem is its unlikely to happen due to such a discussion that lm sure wont end.. best way to currently deal with it is to disallow unregistered users from accessing the forum without a username.. at this second thats the simplest way to resolve the situation.
 
But how many comments from unregistered members are actually of interest, and not flames? Very little, or none. It doesnt 'stifle' it at all.

It doesnt have to be disruptive. Simple fact is the trolls will soon lose interest when they have to register multiple times, or they will have to post something other than rubbish to keep under one username.

It obviously diverts the discussion when some moron from Phorm post threats.


I'm Signed up to too many Forums already but since this discussion thread is all about finding & discussing relevant issues concerning Phorm/Webwise you may find this a useful link.

http://bendrath.blogspot.com/2008/05/deep-packet-inspection-technology-vs.html
 
Phorm has sirned up Digital Agency TBG London for B2B Help which comes as a shock after reading where head of stratagy said

YES, Mark Tomblin, Head of strategy, TBG London

This issue highlights the fact some marketing folk don't understand that privacy is a principle, not an inconvenience. How the OIX user information is stored is irrelevant - it's how it is acquired in the first place that is the key. This means that OIX has to be an opt-in system. But if it is, that could ruin its business model. This would be bad news for them, but we have to look at the bigger privacy picture here.

To keep upto date on Phorm you could check badphorm.co.uk or if worried about security the https website of nodpi.org
 
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Another piece of information about the new microsoft IE* and the privacy button, Phorm will ignoore this and still profile where you have been.

Of course it will. The privacy buttom only hides/removes info from the local PC - Phorm's kit is installed on the network, and doesn't need to put anything on the PC (in terms of profiled info, rather than cookies etc).

They do 2 different jobs, and the privacy button isn't intended to fight Phorm and it's competitors. After all, why would Phorm care whether info about past sites visited is stored on the PC or not?

As far as I can tell, the privacy button is just there to make sure mom doesn't find dad's porn in the cache/history!
 
Another piece of information about the new microsoft IE* and the privacy button, Phorm will ignoore this and still profile where you have been.

http://spicycauldron.com/2008/08/22/the-privacy-button-that-phorm-will-ignore/


IE's privacy button also blocks cookies, so phorm won't be able to attach (or read) its phorged cookies to sites visited while the option is enabled. Of course your "in-private" browsing would still pass through their DPI system, so phormed users will just have to cross their fingers and trust their ISP and Phorm not to analyse it. It is also likely that while your using the inprivate option Phorm's "phishing protection" will be disabled - still maybe the inprivate option won't be used while visting dodgy sites :p

Perhaps Microsoft should drop the idea and develop an "in Public" button instead, where you click it and any site can interrogate IE for your personal details, interests and browsing history, after all if Phorm are to be believed then what we all really want is our browsing to be monitored and to be served with MORE relevant adverts. :hrmph:
 
IE's privacy button also blocks cookies, so phorm won't be able to attach (or read) its phorged cookies to sites visited while the option is enabled.

but wouldnt we end up being blocked from our internet connections for turning it on? lm sure someone mentioned somewhere that blocking their cookies would render the connection inoperable with some sort of stonewalling effect of some sort saying that they cant read the opt-in/out cookies which is required in order to be online or something.
 
but wouldnt we end up being blocked from our internet connections for turning it on? lm sure someone mentioned somewhere that blocking their cookies would render the connection inoperable with some sort of stonewalling effect of some sort saying that they cant read the opt-in/out cookies which is required in order to be online or something.

The Original advice was you could block the cookies in the Browser but not to block webwise.net via the Hosts File. I'm not sure that this would apply now either?
 
but wouldnt we end up being blocked from our internet connections for turning it on? lm sure someone mentioned somewhere that blocking their cookies would render the connection inoperable with some sort of stonewalling effect of some sort saying that they cant read the opt-in/out cookies which is required in order to be online or something.

Phorm users' browsing is only expected to be blocked if they block access to the webwise.net domain. And Opera users who have enabled its third party cookie blocking option are expected to have their normal cookies blocked for the first http request in every 30 minutes (and any subsequent http requests until a user verifiable page request occurs - eg the user clicks on a link) [NOTE this is not a fault in Opera, rather it is because Opera is the only popular browser that complies with the relevant cookie handling standard].

Phorm say they will treat connections that block webwise.net domain cookies as opted-out - if Proxysense doesn't find a master cookie when it redirects your page request to webwise.net to check your UID, it will attempt to set a new cookie and do an extra redirect back to webwise.net to see if it stuck - if it doesn't find the cookie it has just set, then the IP address will be opted-out for the next 30 minutes.

Phorm will also detect if cookies are blocked for any other domains and flag requests from the user's IP address to that domain not to be redirected for a period of time - it is not really explained how, but I'd expect phorm to attempt to forge a test cookie on the first redirect when it intercepts a request for a webpage with no cookies present and check if it stuck on the third redirect - alternatively it might use yet another redirect after setting the phorged cookie.
 
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Would seem BT are too scared to follow ICO rules and talk to their business customers.

BT not keen on engaging with their BT Domains Webhosting customers despite ICO requesting such engagement.

Life is getting interesting over on BT Business forums.
http://btb.lithium.com/btb
There is a very vigorous clean up going on to prevent ANY discussion not only of "webwise/phorm" but of any issue pertaining to website copyright, website security, website intellectual property, website exploitation etc. Posts that do not mention either Webwise, Phorm or DPI are being deleted and warnings (but never explanations) issued. PM's seeking clarification are not being answered.

As this is a forum with a specific Webhosting section, where a number of BT Domains webmasters running ebusinesses post, it is quite telling that BT do not want any discussion of topics like website copyright or privacy notices. As a BT Domains customer myself, I am trying to ask questions but being stalled at every turn. It's good to see BT being so transparent and open and up front about their wonderful Webwise product. They must be so proud of it.

They did allow a specific thread earlier in August, but it got deleted while I was away on holiday. Now there is nowhere.

See - now the problem with this technology is this:

If phorm were deployed and active - what would stop BT/Phorm altering the google searches so that people can't find anything bad about phorm out?

If they are prepared to "cleanse" their own boards from references to phorm, what would stop them filtering out the rest of the internet? After all they can "see the whole internet".

Quite scary isn't it!!!

Well sonce we get russian greek and chinese in a post from a vancover IP nice will discuss with Mark.J what is best with this personally I would say if they cannot post in english just ingnore them.
 
still spam doesnt look good sadly, it looses us credibility and makes it look like we dont care when we do..

still like l said in another thread "The UK, The Next China" in essence phorm will have the ability to limit what we will see, and l stand by the idea that the government dont want to do anything about it because Phorm is custom making a system that will not only allow generation of revenue but at the same time allow them to profile our usage.. its total BS that they wont be keeping identifiable information.. because their system would eventually be used by the government to log our internet usage.. hell whos to know maybe phorm is also going to implement that as a system and make more money out of us.

on a somewhat unrelated note, l was bored so l emailed a few news programs on the BBC (unlikely as l am to get a reply) to find out why such important news isnt being broadcast over national TV.. hardly any average joe will go to BBCs website to read the news its easier to watch it on TV and the lack of coverage to a major loss of privacy l think warrents coverage.. and like l said as unlikely as l am to get an answer ld like to know why millions of internet users who have no idea of the plans have to put up with being spied upon without their knowledge.
 
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Was looking over patents again found two for phorm.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=phorm&OS=phorm&RS=phorm

United States Patent Application 20080201733
Kind Code A1
Ertugrul; Kent ;* *et al. August 21, 2008


http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=phorm&OS=phorm&RS=phorm

United States Patent Application 20080201311
Kind Code A1
Ertugrul; Kent ;* *et al. August 21, 2008
 
상업적인 간첩행위, 불법, 저작권 기밀, 비밀 예심. 기웃거리며 서성대는, 안전

Translation I have for this is

The espionage which is commercial, illegality, copyright secrecy and secret pretrial hearing. Snoops and stands the vocal chord safety
 
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