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Pipex now into theft?

(apols for repeating this in the Pipex forum, but felt this may be better off in here)

My son lives with his mum and I agreed to get them a broadband service. From my research, Pipex, a comapny I used nigh on 10 years ago happily, appeared to offer a good product.

The service went into operation in May 2005 and didn't work. After many calls to Pipex technical and four months later, it became apparent they didn't have any ideas left to solve the problem.

We felt we had been more than fair with them and given them ample oppurtunity to solve the problem. Of course, during all this time they have been happy to take their monthly fee.

Last week I cancelled the service though this became a bit of a trial and tribulation. I requested all monies be paid back to me on the basis that they had never provided any service. When the lady told me they could not repay the money I went a tad red. This provided the responce that under the terms of THEIR contract (con-trick more like), there was no promise of a service to be provided.

LOL.

Okay, thats not what I said at the time but dutifully I asked if they she were to go into a shop and put money on the counter in exchange for goods, one would expect to walk out with goods in hand at least. 'But we are not a shop' was the reply.

Head and wall in mind, I asked for a manager. The manager was far more helpful and understood the problem. She gave me the procedure to cancel which I followed. Note, in the cancellation procedure, it specifically asks for comments as to why one is cancelling. I filled in this with the bits on never having received service.

I was told by the lady that once this was filed, Pipex Customer Service would be in touch regarding a refund.

Bliss, or so it seemed.

After a few days, I rang back to ask about the customer service call, as I hadn't heard anything and also requested as to when I might here back by. A lot of stalling but eventually I was told 7th October. Okay, I'll live with it.

Then today, I see my account had been debited £58.75, Cancellation Fee. In my mind this was not agreeable. I was not cancelling because I was just leaving their contract, I was cancelling because they had not provided a saleable service int he first place. I phoned to complain and again was fobbed off by a guy who told me he was a very experienced customer service employye who had worked their for two years. He assured me it had to be paid and there was nothing I could do. I informed him that customer service were supposed to be looking into the whole mess. 5 minutes on hold and he boldly told me there was an 'internal investigation' going on. Men in white suits, lawyers and reems of paperwork appeared in my vision and I laughed.

It took a while, but after 15 minutes or more, I finally got through to a supervisor. I asked him how the 'internal investigation' was going. He denied they were having one but did say they were looking at the case. I asked him to pay back immmeadiatley the 58'75 they had removed from account as I had only cancelled because of their failure. He told me this was impossible. I told him he was a theif. He didn't like my tone. I didn't like him, period.

After a bit of petty squabbling during which time it was obvious he had his book of rules, I gave up the chase. I did get out of him that on the 7th October they wil make a decision and he has promised I will be contacted then on the outcome of the decision. He did say that the technical dept. may still be able to rectify the problem. I asked if they had not been able to do it in four months, did he honestly think more time would make a difference. He didn't give an answer.

My feeling about Pipex is now completely destroyed. Having read about other peoples experiences with them, I am sad to say that this once good firm appears to have gone to the dogs. There treatment of taking money without proper cause or service is no better than theft.

I'll drop a line on the final outcome.
 
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Essentially, put a review on the site stating that you're not particularly happy with the service and you're not recieving any sort of service from them. Firstly, it allows others to make informed decisions about the ISP; secondly, the fact that you're not recieving service alerts the moderators to the fact that you won't be posting from a Pipex IP address, probably in an effort to reduce unsolicited reviews.

Now, I know I'm going to get slammed for this, but try to relax next time you're on the phone. I can appreciate that it's not easy trying to wrangle money and rights out of a large company, but calling agents "thieves" and such like isn't the best way to go about it. Play ball with them with regards to their complaints, and follow their escalation procedure (i.e. Agent > Supervisor > Manager > Call Centre Manger > Customer Service Manager etc), and make notes of names and extensions where possible.

Nine times out of ten there's a happy ending to these such issues, it's just the timescale. If all ISP's had a decent complaints system in place, I'm sure no-one would have to go through the stuff that LionelSmith had to do.

Good luck!
 
Failing all else there's the small claims court, or if you paid by credit card dispute the transactions with your card provider.
 
Just because there is not a commitment to service in their T&C's does not absolve them from compling with the Sale of Goods act. They would find it very difficult to defend in a small claims.

I had a very similar problem with Pipex on dialup a few years ago, no service for 2 months and then when I cancelled they took an extra month due to their cancelation policy. Applied to the credit card company with all the emails and got my money back.
 
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Small Claims Court and include all your expenses (cost of calls your time ). Under the "Sale of Goods & Services Act " they have`nt a leg to stand on .
Please keep all future conversations with them polite , otherwise their defence could be they could not deal with you because you were abusive.
miffie
 
If you use the small claims you get to choose the local office, Pipex have to travel. I would predict a no-show with you being given full costs as its the cheapest option for them (unless you live next door to them).
 
miffie said:
Small Claims Court and include all your expenses (cost of calls your time ). Under the "Sale of Goods & Services Act " they have`nt a leg to stand on .
Please keep all future conversations with them polite , otherwise their defence could be they could not deal with you because you were abusive.
miffie

I think they might fall foul of the Distance Selling Regulations too in failing to perform a contract within 30 days or the period otherwise agreed. I guess SOGA may be better.

If paid by credit or debit card you may be entitled to chargeback the fees on the grounds that the service was not provided.
 
Quick update.

Suprisingly, Pipex did not come back to me as they had promised, on the 7th Ocotber. I spent another 25 minutes on the phone today (12th Oct) to finally be put through to a manager who admitted they hadn't even looked at it yet.

She faithfully promised to get straigh on to the case.

Result !

She emailed me with a very long email this evening (bless her) to say they would not refund any monies atall as they had not discovered what the fault was. It could be that BT is at fault, it could be that our own PC equipment is at fault.

I have emailed them to say I expect them to promise a full refund forthwith otherwise I will place the matter before TSO. They have had ample time to fix the problem, they have not shown any degree of professionalism so far (having received conflicting advice from different Pipex employees on what I shoudl or shouldn't do) and to blame a third party such as BT is not my problem. I have no contract with BT for Pipex dealings. As to my own equipment being at fault, again, they had ample time to sort this

On a side note regarding how one may approach how to deal with suppliers. Being nice is all very well and for the most part is all that is required when dealing with fair and like minded souls. But when you are dealing with companies who are inadequate and seeking to deprive you in an unfair manor, then put aside any sense of decency give them hell. In thirty years of trading, I have seen to many nice people get fobbed off and loose out. Its a case of knowing when to take what approach, but never advise anyone they should sit their and be all polite when they are being messed about.
 
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You can be polite and tough at the same time, being polite does not mean you have to roll over. I never lose my temper but also never let go, I got BT to remove DACS from my line before OFTEL ruled they had to, it took me 8 months to do it but I never lost my temper or swore just refused to take no for an answer and escalated it slowly but surely until to shut me up they gave in.
 
Latest update and still nothing good to report. Despite several emails I have had no reply from Pipex.

Following discussion with Trading Standards Office (and they say from my evidence, my claims are good) I have written to them recorded delivery. That was over three weeks ago and still no reply.

The case continues as they say in all the best serials
 
I gave up :(

They never replied to recorded mail or further emails. Since then I've been busy and have let it go.

Needless to say I don't recommend Pipex to anyone but it won't make any difference to them.
 
I just wonder whether the ombudsman scheme would be worth considering in this situation (in the case of Pipex I understand that CISAS - http://www.arbitrators.org/cisas/how_Apply.asp is the relevant organisation.)

I recall that when I was having difficulties with Homecall the written threat of reference to the ombudsman was sufficient to make them take matters seriously. So far as I am aware the scheme is free of charge (low risk) for the customer but can be potentially expensive for the company concerned.
 
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