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Please recommend an energy efficient VDSL2 modem

On a somewhat separate note, if the VDSL2 connection is never used, will BT contact the owner to ask them why they're not using it, would be good to know.
 
I agree with this, I just don't want to stray from topic. All of that stuff needs to be always on. I have a platinum Corsair PSU and have all the CPU power optimisations on, so when it's idling it's not drawing much. And my Ugreen power adapter that's powering all the aforementioned stuff via USB-C adaptors has very efficient AC-DC.

Overall, my personal carbon footprint is very low, I'm probably in the 10th percentile or lower for the UK, I spend only around £600/year on electricity at 35p/kWh (used to be £250 or so), and I use 100% electric public transit and don't have a car.



Yes, see my post above, it's a 10.1W constant load in bridge mode.

I think you're right that it's not worth it. Alternatively, as I get notified if my WAN ever goes down (which I can't remember the last time it happened), I can just keep the BT Hub off and if I get a notification, then I can manually power it on within a couple of hours at most, which would be... acceptable here. Unless I'm sleeping, then it may be longer. And if I'm traveling I will just power it on before I leave.

I was looking for a more elegant solution, but I could just do that, or just pay the £30/year, I mean the amount of time I've spent thinking about this is already worth more than £30 to me haha. Next year it'll probably cost £15-20.
What about this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-Tapo-Wireless-Control-Required/dp/B07Z942YWS/

Works via local wifi. The only problem I see is that if your main connection is down then Tailscale it's not going to work. You need to find one that you can control via a local API so that you can trigger the On event locally.
 
What about this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-Tapo-Wireless-Control-Required/dp/B07Z942YWS/

Works via local wifi. The only problem I see is that if your main connection is down then Tailscale it's not going to work. You need to find one that you can control via a local API so that you can trigger the On event locally.

No Tailscale is not for monitoring, for that I use healthchecks.io. That switch is good, it's just that I'll need to buy a whole other RPi for this or run a VM on my PC all the time, neither of which I really want to do, so I'll consider my options.
 
I still need to measure specific power again, only two days ago when I was preparing for a planned power update I checked my octopus mini with only the following devices turned on.

pfSense NUC
Netgear WAX 206
Archer C7
TV standby
One monitor standby
Plus approx 6 plugs connected to a power source but with device turned off. (hard to access)

The power consumption was circa 65w, which based on paper usage is probably at least double but maybe triple what I would expect.

The tv and monitor I turned off, TV was barely registering 1w, and monitor about 2w. pfSense has only ever been measured by my UPS on its own, so thats a candidate for more accurate measurement. But I cannot see it being much over 20w at most.

+1 for smart plugs, but also I found a handy device which is kind of an intermediate between normal manual sockets and smart plugs, its a company that makes extension sockets where each socket has its own switch, so adds conveniance and unlike smart plugs would have no residual power usage. Got one of them a two socket at side of my bed (with its switches) and one on my tv area, where prior to using it I would have to either use smart plugs or physically disconnect plugs.
 
Exactly, and the router costs £190 haha.
I just checked: the Draytek Vigor 130 is more expensive than it used to be, but still around £99 brand new, or less than half that if you pick up from eBay. (And it's only a modem, no routing capability)
 
pfSense has only ever been measured by my UPS on its own,
I'd put money on the UPS and anything hanging off it being 1/3 - 1/2 of your usage depending on the type of UPS.

if its a similar to an "APC SMART" UPS - these can go from like +95% efficient to pretty dire- especially if the battery isn't in the best shape as they try and get to float voltage too stubbornly and may never get there.. an "always on the inverter" UPS (unlikely to be one you're using at home) are pretty consistently naff but are much better units. Would recommend measuring the UPS on its own if possible and you'll likely see a chunk of your loss here. (also if the UPS is giving the reading, it likely wont be including itself)

Also as a test, on your main consumer unit turn off all circuits barring your sockets when testing with the home mini. I had an "interesting" problem where some genius has wired an outside PIR-based security light to the smoke alarm circuit, and it was chewing 30w when not lit. That was warm when replaced :D

If anyone goes the home assistant route. Athom (https://www.athom.tech/) sell devices running Tasmota / ESPHome - so all local control, no cloud and no cloud accounts, saves faffing buying the "real" device and doing some gymnastics to flash it. Shelly make good quality products with local control baked in. Zigbee (my preferred), zWave (pricey and not many devices) and thread/matter (not mature yet) are also candidates but would all require a method to interact with them.

HA can be ran as a docker container, so depends how the rpi is setup currently, it doesn't need huge amounts of resource until you start getting into more smart things - but it gives you options (e.g. using a Shelly to control the boiler, I've got local and remote control of the heating, I pulled a Hive out last year for being crap)


On a somewhat separate note, if the VDSL2 connection is never used, will BT contact the owner to ask them why they're not using it, would be good to know.

Uhh, why? wouldn't make business sense to call your customers and ask if they want to stop paying you.
 
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I'd put money on the UPS and anything hanging off it being 1/3 - 1/2 of your usage depending on the type of UPS.

if its a similar to an "APC SMART" UPS - these can go from like +95% efficient to pretty dire- especially if the battery isn't in the best shape as they try and get to float voltage too stubbornly and may never get there.. an "always on the inverter" UPS (unlikely to be one you're using at home) are pretty consistently naff but are much better units.
That's an excellent shout!

For example a 1.5KVA APC rack mount smart UPS consumes 22 Watts at idle with nothing plugged in (only screen shot of total 12% load at 96 Watts, 75W load + 22W UPS)
Screenshot_20230831_103939.webp


If anyone goes the home assistant route. Athom (https://www.athom.tech/) sell devices running Tasmota / ESPHome - so all local control, no cloud and no cloud accounts, saves faffing buying the "real" device and doing some gymnastics to flash it.
Home Assistant/RasberryPi4 4Gb logging 35 Shelly 1PM energy monitors (primarily, but also temperature, particle monitors, humidity etc) pulls on average 2.5 Watts

Screenshot_20230831_104747.webp


Shelly make good quality products with local control baked in
With either Shelly or Tasmota firmware they are low cost and work well & are very easy to integrate into a Home Assistant type setup
 
Oh the other thing to check that's common for vampire drain / phantom usage is if you have a burglar alarm - Disconnecting the battery (and silencing the alarm) you may find the usage drops significantly. When I moved into here, the alarm was using 60~80w (yes..!) trying to charge a dead, swollen battery. The charging transformer had left a beautiful scorch mark not only in the alarm casing, but up the plaster itself and out of every hold in the casing.

When I moved here the previous owner was a little old lady who lived on her own and it's clear trades (or her previous partners "wonderful" :rolleyes: DIY) had been taking the proverbial.

I bought a (cheap copy) thermal camera from Amazon, and wandered round the house looking for hot spots on equipment (and cold spots, the insulation in this house sucks balls, work had been done in the loft and insulation not put back adequately etc.) to see what things I needed to improve, and what was costing me money, where draughts were coming from, sources for cold walls, etc.

Would highly recommend ;)
 
Oh the other thing to check that's common for vampire drain / phantom usage is if you have a burglar alarm - Disconnecting the battery (and silencing the alarm) you may find the usage drops significantly. When I moved into here, the alarm was using 60~80w (yes..!) trying to charge a dead, swollen battery. The charging transformer had left a beautiful scorch mark not only in the alarm casing, but up the plaster itself and out of every hold in the casing.

When I moved here the previous owner was a little old lady who lived on her own and it's clear trades (or her previous partners "wonderful" :rolleyes: DIY) had been taking the proverbial.

I bought a (cheap copy) thermal camera from Amazon, and wandered round the house looking for hot spots on equipment (and cold spots, the insulation in this house sucks balls, work had been done in the loft and insulation not put back adequately etc.) to see what things I needed to improve, and what was costing me money, where draughts were coming from, sources for cold walls, etc.

Would highly recommend ;)
My biggest win (from a satisfaction point of view not power saved) was identifying a very expensive Miele Little Giant washing machine sucked 10 to 15 W constant depending on whether the screen was on or not, and the screen had a PIR sensor integrated which meant it was on more often than not.

The washing machine now gets switched on via Home Assistant before a wash and off straight after...

Focus on the small things and it's surprising how easy it is to make substantial savings in overall energy usage.
 
Edit: Add link to Shelly Store UK

Reliable source for Shelly stuff


18.5 GBP for a 16A WiFi operated relay switch with inbuilt power monitoring. Can be integrated directly into a switched socket outlet or built into a pigtail (if you want to move it around to measure other devices). Shelly have Android and iOS apps to monitor directly on your phone or super easy to integrate into Home Assistant (firmware updates can be handled directly via HA as well)

You can also flash with Tasmota firmware which can give extra options/independence from Shelly


but you'll need something like this to flash the device.

Search Amazon for "Tasmotizer (PCB for flashing ESP devices)"
 
I just checked: the Draytek Vigor 130 is more expensive than it used to be, but still around £99 brand new, or less than half that if you pick up from eBay. (And it's only a modem, no routing capability)

Ohh when you first brought it up I just checked Amazon where it's £198 but that's probably from a super overpriced 3rd party seller. Used ones on Ebay literally go for £30-40. Is there a reason for that, is there an older version of the Vigor 130 that is worse/cheaper?

You know what, if it reduces power consumption to 5W, for under £40 it would be worth it, plus it's a better modem than the BT Hub, that I know can also handle bufferbloat well, which the BT VDSL2 has especially on the upload - literally up to 1000ms when it's maxed out. I'm currently managing it with a bandwidth limitation, but I think the Draytek would handle it better.

Uhh, why? wouldn't make business sense to call your customers and ask if they want to stop paying you.

Right, but they also want a satisfied customer who is more likely to stick with them. Amazon often sends me emails or mail to remind me that I can use Prime Video, which I never watch. But I don't know, you can make an argument either way.
 
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Used ones on Ebay literally go for £30-40 or less. Is there a reason for that, is there an older version of the Vigor 130 that is worse/cheaper?
I think that's roughly what I sold mine for on E-bay. No, there's just one model. There are firmware updates available, although annoyingly you have to register with the draytek site to get them.

I always found it to be rock solid (when combined with my Mikrotik router). You might not get quite as fast a sync speed though: its Lantiq(?) chipset apparently doesn't train up quite as fast as a Broadcom when talking to Huawei cabs. But that's just stuff I've read on forums.
 
Ohh when you first brought it up I just checked Amazon where it's £198 but that's probably from a super overpriced 3rd party seller. Used ones on Ebay literally go for £30-40 or less. Is there a reason for that, is there an older version of the Vigor 130 that is worse/cheaper?

You know what, if it reduces power consumption to 5W, for under £40 it would be worth it, plus it's a better modem than the BT Hub, that I know can also handle bufferbloat well, which the BT VDSL2 has especially on the upload - literally up to 1000ms when it's maxed out. I'm currently managing it with a bandwidth limitation, but I think the Draytek would handle it better.



Right, but they also want a satisfied customer who is more likely to stick with them. Amazon often sends me emails or mail to remind me that I can use Prime Video, which I never watch. But I don't know, you can make an argument either way.
Ping me a private message, I've got an unused Vigor 130 I can let you have cheap + cost of postage if you're interested. Looks in perfect condition, just need to locate the power supply. (the box says Firmware 3.8.1.2 but I'm positive it has been updated at least) I'll keep the box as it's huge compared to the modem

Update: Latest firmware is 3.8.5.1, no registration required, download straight from the Draytek site

Screenshot_20230831_141359.webp
:)
 
or mail to remind me that I can use Prime Video, which I never watch.
This isn't really a "hey you're paying for this, and you're not using it!" it's an attempt to make sure you're fully engrained in their product. Embedded with Prime Video, Prime Music, Amazon "priority" delivery, "Prime Day" - and all the bluster around paying them £100+/year. It's product / vendor lock-in, in disguise.

If you were paying them £100/year, and not using the one product they offered, do you think they'd tell you? I'm not saying they're outwardly being disingenuous - just there's no way a sane company would cut off free cash.

Ping me a private message, I've got an unused Vigor 130 I can let you have cheap + cost of postage
Top banana! nice one for providing the option.
 
This isn't really a "hey you're paying for this, and you're not using it!" it's an attempt to make sure you're fully engrained in their product. Embedded with Prime Video, Prime Music, Amazon "priority" delivery, "Prime Day" - and all the bluster around paying them £100+/year. It's product / vendor lock-in, in disguise.

If you want to understand how this works read Cory Doctorow's excellent essay on "Tiktok's enshittification"

it's on Wired and elsewhere but this is the ad free link


You''ll come away with a deeper understanding of how Amazon, Twitter, Facebook, Tik Tok and many other business work in 2023.

Highly recommended read (y)
 
Ping me a private message, I've got an unused Vigor 130 I can let you have cheap + cost of postage if you're interested. Looks in perfect condition, just need to locate the power supply. (the box says Firmware 3.8.1.2 but I'm positive it has been updated at least) I'll keep the box as it's huge compared to the modem

Update: Latest firmware is 3.8.5.1, no registration required, download straight from the Draytek site

View attachment 8090:)

Thanks. I already placed a few bids on Ebay and messaged someone on Gumtree, let me see how those go, and I may PM you in a few days.
 
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Well I have 2 UPS with one of them being a cheapo model so that may well explain it. Both cases the socket they are plugged into are hard to access, so dont know if I can ever test them on their own (and also test with sockets on in fuse box but also nothing plugged into sockets).

I have already tested with everything off at fusebox except sockets, so its nothing external to sockets.

Seems the PC/server industry needs to get things in order, computer power supplies can also have woeful efficiency even the expensive ones, it nosedives when utilisation is below a certain point.
 
Seems the PC/server industry needs to get things in order, computer power supplies can also have woeful efficiency even the expensive ones, it nosedives when utilisation is below a certain point.

It's why right sizing the supply is important. People see "platinum" PSUs and think itll be uber efficient, overspec how much they need and then it runs at crap efficiency because it's only able to be able to be designed in a small-ish window for efficiency. (Have to remember these are basically AC to DC supplies)

There's already been a (somewhat small) push to convert datacenters from AC to DC feeds to servers:

"A Lawrence Berkeley Labs (LBL) study indicated a 7 percent reduction of energy consumption and a 28 percent efficiency gain, comparing DC data centers to AC based data centers."

What I've seen is they'll run -48V DC, then step it down to use in the server - but because the UPS is sat at 48V DC there's no conversion into and out of the battery, there's no stepdown from ~220 AC to 12/5/3v DC. It's also why it makes sense to use a single supply to power many things (e.g. instead of having multiple USB items plugged into separate AC bricks, converging them into one brick (or splitting the feed over multiple devices) lets you get more efficiency.

It's not a new thought process though:

Also servers with redundant supplies are always going to be designed to have twice the continual peak load vs what they actually need - so if one goes pop, you don't lose the device - pushed inefficiency.

Hyperscalers are starting to take note though it seems - with modular designs and looking to use 48vdc.
e.g.


for more recent-ish stuff... Google did the AWS thing in ~2009 though. Then moved onto this:

So at scale, people are looking at it. Smaller scale - people are running for example 3 phase to 3-phase UPS' which will then feed their racks in the Datacentre, it's very unlikely when on build (especially companies the sizes I've worked for - e.g. national players rather than international megacorps) there just isn't the appetite to move away from this tried and tested (and much cheaper) setup. Because everyone does it - there's so much supply. Looking just at HPE Servers - 48vdc supplies are double (ish) the price of their 220v counterparts.

I have already tested with everything off at fusebox except sockets, so its nothing external to sockets.
nice :) The only thing I can recommend unfortunately is a small, single socket extension into the wall, then your meter where its accessible, and then the UPS in there to test. I know it's a PITA but knowing what the losses are, probably makes it worth it, especially as the UPS should ride out the few seconds of AC loss whilst you swap it over.
 
Ok, I just won an Ebay auction for a Vigor 130, got it for £26!

Appears to be in great cosmetic condition, hopefully no issues with the hardware. Would be nice to know when it was manufactured, but no way to get that information from the S/N it seems. Thanks again for the offer @HairyLeg, sorry I saw your post too late.

And I already have a 12V USB-C adaptor with the correct barrel plug size, so I'll be ready to USB-C that puppy when it gets here.

It says max power consumption 6W, but I'm hoping for 5W or less, either way it'll pay for itself in just over a year.

I'm kind of excited to set it up, I know very little about DSL, never had it until we got this BT line that will only be used as backup, so I finally get a chance to mess with this dying technology.
 
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