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Poynting Omni-Directional Antennas

kiplingcakes

Casual Member
Hello…..

I was wondered if anyone has had any experiences with the Omni directional poynting antennas, specifically, the older xpol-1-omni, vs the xpol-1-5G omni

I currently use the xpol-1-5G 4x4 mimo, with reduced 50cm length cables, running into a modified CPE Pro 2.

I’m in the middle of nowhere, so no 5G, and Three only. I can see the Mast without any obstructions, but unfortunately, I have had no luck with directional and other omni-directional antennas.

The xpol-1-5G is only 0.5 dbi @ 617-960 MHz which is what I’m using on Three, which is pretty poor, but I have noticed that the older xpol-1 4G version is 1.6 dbi at the same frequency.

Not a lot of difference, but enough to maybe bumb the SINR up a little bit?

My current results are …..

RSRQ -7.0dB
RSRP -61dBm
RSSI >=-51dBm
SINR 17dB

SINR fluctuates between 10 to 18

Download speeds are between 10 and 50, ish, but usually on the lower side.

Sometimes I can just about stream 4K, but more often than not, it buffers every few seconds.

I just wondered if anyone has used both antenna previously, and if any noticeable difference was measured!?

Obviously, I would need to buy two of the older xpol-1’s to create 4x4 mino.

So far, I have tried the following, and all were worse than the xpol-1-5G

Kaser 4G Omni x 2

McGill 4G Omni x 2

Xpol-24 4x4 with N connectors and LMR240

Plus a few others on the way.

Not really many options left to try……

I also took the internal antennas out of the CPE Pro 2, and soldered them onto some short LMR240, but they gave roughly the same results as the Xpol-1-5G.

One thing I did notice however, is that if I tilted the Xpol out of its bracket like in the photo below, I got better results, so I might experiment with the two sets of antennas, having one set at 90 degrees and the other set at 45, as I have a spare empty housing.

FullSizeRender-compressed.jpeg



And just for anyone wondering about the size of the xpol-24……. 😂


FullSizeRender-compressed.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Hello…..

I was wondered if anyone has had any experiences with the Omni directional poynting antennas, specifically, the older xpol-1-omni, vs the xpol-1-5G omni

I currently use the xpol-1-5G 4x4 mimo, with reduced 50cm length cables, running into a modified CPE Pro 2.

I’m in the middle of nowhere, so no 5G, and Three only. I can see the Mast without any obstructions, but unfortunately, I have had no luck with directional and other omni-directional antennas.

The xpol-1-5G is only 0.5 dbi @ 617-960 MHz which is what I’m using on Three, which is pretty poor, but I have noticed that the older xpol-1 4G version is 1.6 dbi at the same frequency.

Not a lot of difference, but enough to maybe bumb the SINR up a little bit?

My current results are …..

RSRQ -7.0dB
RSRP -61dBm
RSSI >=-51dBm
SINR -17dB

SINR fluctuates between -10 to -18

Download speeds are between 10 and 50, ish, but usually on the lower side.

Sometimes I can just stream 4K, but more often than not, it buffers every few seconds.

I just wondered if anyone has used both, and if any noticeable difference was measured!?

Obviously, I would need to buy two of the older xpol-1’s to create 4x4 mino.

So far, I have tried the following, and all were worse than the xpol-1-5G

Kaser 4G Omni x 2

McGill 4G Omni x 2

Xpol-24 4x4 with N connectors and LMR240

Plus a few others on the way.

Not really many options left to try……

I also took the internal antennas out of the CPE Pro 2, and soldered them onto some short LMR240, but they gave roughly the same results as the Xpol-1-5G.

One thing I did notice however, is that if I tilted the Xpol out of its bracket like in the photo below, I got better results, so I might experiment with the two sets of antennas, having one set at 90 degrees and the other set at 45, as I have a spare empty housing.

View attachment 8140


And just for anyone wondering about the size of the xpol-24……. 😂


View attachment 8141
That sinr is absolute rubbish. Are you sure it's a negative value? Rsrp is very good.
I think your mast is just rubbish.
Using the sim in your phone with netmonster or cellmapper running what bands do you see duration a download?
 
Apologies, it’s not a negative SINR. Amended!

Yes, I agree, I think it’s just that the mast is garbage. It’s big enough though! 😂

Downloads are on band 20.

I’ve had a mess around with cellmapper and LTEH-Monitor, and to be honest, my main reason for continuing to mess around with things and different antenna, is that if I walk 20 meters in-front of my cottage and into the middle of the field, I can get 70-80 mbps download on my phone, so the signal and speed is there, somewhere…..
 
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Apologies, it’s not a negative SINR. Amended!

Yes, I agree, I think it’s just that the mast is garbage. It’s big enough though! 😂

Downloads are on band 20.

I’ve had a mess around with cellmapper and LTEH-Monitor, and to be honest, my main reason for continuing to mess around with things and different antenna, is that if I walk 20 meters in-front of my cottage and into the middle of the field, I can get 70-80 mbps download on my phone, so the signal and speed is there, somewhere…..
Then your mobile signal currently is quite good. That's an ok sinr and rsrp.
What bands do you see in the field when you test?
 
RSRP way higher than mine and bandwidth too, well jell! I've seen a comparison of the xpol-1-omni against cheapo diapols, and it didn't fair well considering the cost.

I'm in a thread on here looking at ebay cheapo LPDAs, have you given them a bash out of interest?
 
RSRP way higher than mine and bandwidth too, well jell! I've seen a comparison of the xpol-1-omni against cheapo diapols, and it didn't fair well considering the cost.

I'm in a thread on here looking at ebay cheapo LPDAs, have you given them a bash out of interest?
No, I haven’t tried any of the LPDA variety, although, I did start off by purchasing the Kaser LPDA’s, but returned them without testing as they were just too large and too flimsy for my location which is on the side of a mountain.

I’m also in a conservation area, so having 4 huge white sails strapped to the side of the cottage would probably have been a no-go.

I should have probably tried them in the loft first, but I only had two, rather than 4x4

I would be interested in seeing the results of those cheapo eBay ones though.

I’ve bought a larger waterproof box that will blend in with the stonework of the house, and at some stage, I’m going to try spacing the antennas of the xpol-1-5G out a bit, and at different angles, as they are just plonked in and a bit cramped when you open it up.

FullSizeRender-compressed.webp


And there are loads of used xpol-1-4G’s on eBay, so I’m going to buy two of them, reduce/replace the cable length with LMR240, and see if I can get a slightly higher SINR.

I managed to watch the F1 and 2 Football matches in 4K yesterday without too much distribution, so I don’t think I’m too far off, but I would guess I am probably already close to the max of what I can get from my tower.
 
To get better speeds, try get off B20 with Three - that's the band they have the least bandwidth for.

You need to be aiming for B3 (1800MHz) for the band with the most, or failing that B28 (700MHz), if its deployed at your mast, else B1 (but at 2100MHz that's a higher frequency than B3, so possibly less achievable).
If there's any B32 (1500MHz) around then your CPE Pro 2 should be able to aggregate with that too.

Also, Three don't deploy 4x4 MIMO for B20, so a 4x4 MIMO antenna would be wasted for B20.
 
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Hmm, maybe I am on B3…?

I can’t for the life of me remember why I thought I was on B20.

My mast only has B3 and B20, so it would make sense to be on B3, as I’m definitely getting the advantage of 4x4, as 2x2 is just dire!

I will check everything this afternoon, which is an effort, as I don’t have any android devices to run things on, so I have to botch a few things! 😂
 
if its B3+B20 only then I'd be somewhat surprised if it were 4x4 enabled, that'd typically indicate an older site which typically were 2x2
 
Had a good faff this afternoon.

I was using B20, and the results are roughly….

RSRQ -7.0dB
RSRP -59/61dBm
RSSI >=-51dBm
SINR 17dB/18dB

The location setting on the CPE Pro 2 gets 75 out of 100, and it’s showing as 4G+

Locking onto B3 1800MHz from the same tower, using LTE Monitor, the results are roughly….

RSRQ -9.0dB
RSRP -90dBm
RSSI -63dBm
SINR -3dB (negative 3)

It’s not showing as 4G+, and the location setting is showing as 45 out of 100,

BUT……

I’m getting roughly the same download speed on B20 and B3, slightly higher on B20, but B3 is definitely more stable!

Is that normal?
Higher frequency = worse results but better performance?

I did manage to lock onto another mast using B1 and B28, but it’s on the other side of the mountain, so was barely getting 1mbps!

I think a combination of a crap mast and a terrible but beautifully picturesque location have shot me in the foot, but I’m still much better off than when I was paying £42 a month for 18mbps down the phone line! 🤣

I’ll try B3 for a few days and see how things go, although, there isn’t any sport on that I want to watch for a few weeks, so I probably won’t even be turning the TV on!
 
Is that normal?
Higher frequency = worse results but better performance?
Yes, this tends to be the norm.

B20 is 800MHz, it travels far and wide, the lower the frequency the further it goes, it's just physics.

B3 on the other hand is much higher frequency, 1800MHz, it doesn't travel as wide and it packs more spectrum usually.
In the same spot, B20 will have significantly better radio signal than B3, as you have seen.

But ... Three's B20 is 5MHz, you can only pack so much data in it, usually under 50 Mbps bandwidth. And because it travels far you share this with many others.

Three's B3 allocation is 15MHz, it can pack up to 150 Mbps download speed and because it doesn't travel as far you share that with fewer people.

So what happens most of the time is that the band with higher frequency (and poorer signal) actually packs more punch, if you are in reasonable range to it.

You can check the spectrum allocations here
 
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Yes, this tends to be the norm.

B20 is 800MHz, it travels far and wide, the lower the frequency the further it goes, it's just physics.

B3 on the other hand is much higher frequency, 1800MHz, it doesn't travel as wide and it packs more spectrum usually.
In the same spot, B20 will have significantly better radio signal than B3, as you have seen.

But ... Three's B20 is 5MHz, you can only pack so much data in it, usually under 50 Mbps bandwidth. And because it travels far you share this with many others.

Three's B3 allocation is 15MHz, it can pack up to 150 Mbps download speed and because it doesn't travel as far you share that with fewer people.

So what happens most of the time is that the band with higher frequency (and poorer signal) actually packs more punch, if you are in reasonable range to it.

You can check the spectrum allocations here
Will there be any difference regarding antennas used, eg, will an omni work better with one frequency more than the other, and the same for a directional.

I understand that obviously the directional ones have far better gain, I just haven’t had any luck with the directional ones that I have tried, and the little xpol-1-5g would occasionally make the CPE Pro 2 switch to B3 on its own, I just always restarted it as the dB results looked so poor compared to B20, and it would then always automatically revert back to B20 upon restart.

I don’t think I actually bothered to previously check the download speeds when it kept switching to B3 actually, I just checked the SINR!

I think I’m getting a massive amount of reflection from the hills and mountains, as I’m kind of at the bottom of a bowl, which is maybe why the omni- is working so well. Well, it’s working. Sort of!

Oooh, this is all very fascinating! 😁
Thanks for all the info!

I’ve had a 4K channel with Atmos on for the last 20 minutes or so, and no buffering yet with B3, so it’s looking promising! 🤞🏼

That’s basically all I’m asking for, the ability to stream 4K. If I was downloading something to the NAS, I would do it overnight, so I don’t need a super dooper speed, Just more than 20 mbps until the networks/masts improve!

I was getting faster speeds with Wanadoo 20 years ago! 😂
 
Normally, unloaded, the router could just stay connected to B20 and then kick into band aggregation (with B3) on demand when you make a bigger download.
The reflection theory might be valid and indeed could explain why the omni has a better result, but you really want to squeeze that B3 if you can, so having a router which can select bands would be ideal.

It would be interesting to play with an outdoor one, such as ZTE MC7010 as it has omni antennas built-in (like all routers) and you wouldn't have any coax cable loss since you wouldn't be using one.

@JitteryPinger is selling one I see or there are quite a few of them on ebay for ~£150.
:)
 
A directional antenna would certainly help improve B3 performance - particularly the noise ratio which will have a significant improvement.

Improving the antenna would be first choice rather than router.

You'll find that by improving signal quality and noise the chances are that the router will be steered towards B3.

I'd personally steer clear Poynting antennas as they're not really suited to UK frequencies (e.g. B32) but a nice pair of LPDA antennas would serve well.
 
SINR 17 dB is pretty good so antenna optimization may not achieve much more (e.g. getting to SINR 24 dB might show similar measured throughput if the fronthaul/backhaul is a more significant bottleneck).

I've found the XPOL-1 to be very directional so can understand there's an optimal orientation. As I write this, I realise I tilt the starboard side towards the connected mast which matches what is shown in the photo.

I think the antennas in the housing are oriented to take into account the reflections one would expect from horizontally extended surfaces such as the ground and roof so it's probably minutely better to have the horizontals of the housing level to the ground (empirical testing could refute this in some or all location).
 
SINR 17 dB is pretty good so antenna optimization may not achieve much more (e.g. getting to SINR 24 dB might show similar measured throughput if the fronthaul/backhaul is a more significant bottleneck).
SINR 17 dB is for B20

-3 dB ish for B3
 
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A directional antenna would certainly help improve B3 performance - particularly the noise ratio which will have a significant improvement.

Improving the antenna would be first choice rather than router.

You'll find that by improving signal quality and noise the chances are that the router will be steered towards B3.

I'd personally steer clear Poynting antennas as they're not really suited to UK frequencies (e.g. B32) but a nice pair of LPDA antennas would serve well.

A lot of the Poynting antennae do have gaps in the frequency coverage which can matter sometimes in the UK, the Panorama ones (designed/made in the UK) seem better for this but are less widely available.
 
A lot of the Poynting antennae do have gaps in the frequency coverage which can matter sometimes in the UK, the Panorama ones (designed/made in the UK) seem better for this but are less widely available.
YEah, XPOL-1 (and 5G version) famously lacks support for B32 1500MHz.
 
These RSRP Signals are crashing in at around neg 60 dBm, try and stick with bands above 1800 for Bandwidth and 4x4 mimo, could even be you are too close to the Mast and your not getting a good mimo seperation, how close to the Mast are you and how high is it compared to your level, if it was me I might be tempted to try and pick up some reflective Signals from different directions rather than Direct LOS.
 
These RSRP Signals are crashing in at around neg 60 dBm, try and stick with bands above 1800 for Bandwidth and 4x4 mimo, could even be you are too close to the Mast and your not getting a good mimo seperation, how close to the Mast are you and how high is it compared to your level, if it was me I might be tempted to try and pick up some reflective Signals from different directions rather than Direct LOS.
I’m about a mile away from the mast. Clear LOS.

I have hills and mountains all around, so if you imagine a bowl, I’m at the bottom of the bowl, and the mast is at the top of one of the sides.
It has B3 and B20 only.

I’ve managed to band lock on to B3 1800mhz, and I’m getting slightly faster speeds than I was locking onto B20 or B20 + B3 with CA, but it’s still fluctuating around the 40mbps, and the SINR jumps between -4 and +4 on B3 only.

I’m nearly there. I need just less than 50mbps for a stable connection.

The XPOL-1-5G is not so Omni, as moving it on its bracket greatly affects the readings. Pointing the thinnest sides directly at the mast gave the best readings on B3.

I did manage to lock onto a mast on the other side of the mountain, which has B1/B3/B20/B28, and I think 5G, but no data was received, so as a few have mentioned, I might have a mess around with 4 x 696-3800Mhz LPDA antennas with short 40/50cm LMR240, and before that, I’ll take the 4 x antenna out of the XPOL-1-5G, and spread them out a bit.
 
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