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Reliability?

Joe

0
I run the BT 500/4 option for satellite and have had it for some 2 years. I was wondering what other people were seeing in terms of availability/reliability (that is if there is anyone still using this service out there?). Recently my systems reliability has gone way down... I wrote a script to monitor it and here's the output for Thursday and Friday last week:

Fri Mar 12 20:58:27 UP
Fri Mar 12 20:47:56 DOWN
Fri Mar 12 19:45:36 UP
Fri Mar 12 19:35:05 DOWN
Fri Mar 12 18:06:51 UP
Fri Mar 12 18:01:40 DOWN
Fri Mar 12 03:04:36 UP
Fri Mar 12 02:59:25 DOWN
Thu Mar 11 18:15:58 UP
Thu Mar 11 18:10:47 DOWN
Thu Mar 11 07:48:24 UP
Thu Mar 11 07:43:13 DOWN
Thu Mar 11 07:11:57 UP
Thu Mar 11 07:06:46 DOWN
Thu Mar 11 04:46:43 UP
Thu Mar 11 04:41:32 DOWN
Thu Mar 11 02:26:37 UP
Thu Mar 11 02:21:26 DOWN

Due to this kind of performance (and it really is a performance!) I rang BT support to see what was going on. They told me this was not normal and that perhaps I should have an engineer come out and measure the signal strength and check the dish alignment and equipment. I said great.

Then came the gotcha. Due to having been a customer of theirs for more then 12 months the equipment was "out of warranty". This means (apparently) that I have to pay them £150 to look at it (regardless of if anything is wrong with it or not).

This came as somewhat of a surprise since I thought I was buying an internet access package complete with support (including hardware support). Certainly it cost enough.

As I am qualified for basic radio engineering I asked them to provide me with service manuals and frequency specifications for the service and said I would fix it myself if they were telling me it was my problem. They said that service manuals were not available to anyone but their engineers and that if I needed the hub to do anything I would be stuck because the hub will only talk to their engineers.

So basically I can pay the £150 or I can do nothing.

Fortunately other service providers are moving into this area so my inclination at present is to wait and see and use dial up to supplement the service until then - though as I'm sure you all know someone saying they are moving into an area is quite different from it actually happening.

So I could pursue this via Gilat and try and get the service manuals and technical specs from them - I don't know if they would tell me the relevant info. OR I could pay BT the £150 which I am very loathe to do since I pay them enough every month for this service anyway.

So I thought I would post here and see if other people were experiencing the kind of up/down behaviour I'm seeing to try and figure out whether it's worth paying BT if I get desperate!

Can anyone comment? Or is there nobody left with this service here?

Comments from people with 500/4 would be of most interest as I guess there may be differences between the two services. Thanks.
 
Sorry to hear of your problems.
I thought that the monthly price did include hardware support - best check the contract I guess.

I’m fortunate enough to live in an area that’s just been enabled for ADSL so I unplugged the satellite modem and got a cheque back from BT for the unused billing period. Nice to get money back from BT, I just pay them line rental on my phone now, I will spend the rest of my life not paying them for anything else and advising as many people I can to do the same (saves them money). There is still something of the 1970's about BT isnt there?

I’m so glad to be out of this second rate service (it the literal sense second rate). I still have the dish out on the wall, at least its not consuming bandwidth now so a bit more to go around. Just before I dropped the service I noticed that it was getting a bit faster....

I have a contact in Wales that had a problem with his 500/1, turned out to be corrosion on the dish connection, the repair guy said it was a common fault for installations done in the rain, I believe he didn’t pay anything for the repair though and he is outside his 12 months.
 
Well thanks for the info. Today is abysmal. Here are the stats so far:

Sat Mar 13 17:13:33 :: DOWN
Sat Mar 13 13:51:19 :: UP
Sat Mar 13 13:30:01 :: DOWN
Sat Mar 13 13:09:07 :: UP
Sat Mar 13 12:58:36 :: DOWN
Sat Mar 13 12:22:11 :: UP
Sat Mar 13 12:17:00 :: DOWN
Sat Mar 13 10:33:12 :: UP
Sat Mar 13 07:16:00 :: DOWN
Sat Mar 13 06:55:08 :: UP
Sat Mar 13 04:41:56 :: DOWN
Sat Mar 13 04:36:36 :: UP
Sat Mar 13 00:20:42 :: DOWN

So it went down at 20 past midnight and didn't reappear until 4am for 5 minutes and then it was down again until 6:55am. After that we had it on and off for the day - but at 17:13 it went down and hasn't come back again (I'm on dial up right now).

I have been categorically told by them that they will not even look at the equipment without the £150 payment. I too thought my contract included hardware support. It appears all it includes is permission to use their network and minimal telephone support that I have never found any use whatsoever (they usually just say try setting dipswitch 3 down and restarting the box).

I can't say I exactly regret having been with BT because the service has been (before now) better then nothing (just about) - but on the other hand it's been a VERY expensive solution and now it's just become totally annoying. I felt a bit better about it when I thought I would get some kind of hardware support if things went wrong - but since they are effectively washing their hands of me I feel totally ripped off.

It's fortunate there are alternatives on the way - one being an Aramiska community project thing the other being Kingston ADSL which is appearing in this area. Unfortunately both have downsides - but I guess in my position I can't be choosy. If anyone has experience of either please shout out - maybe save me making another mistake :)

Incidentally my installation was done in the dryness of summer so hopefully the dish connections should be ok though I guess it may be an idea to go and check them.

I would be interested to know if with 500/1 you got many days with downtime. Throughout the period I've had the system I don't think I've had many days without at least one downtime for a minute or two. Did you experience this too or was downtime a very rare event? That's what support tell me it should be like.
 
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downtime

Before I de commisioned the 500/1 service in the middle of last month uptime had been very good with only the very occasional early morning none availability.

Its been a 'reasonable' serice for me from About Jan 2003 onwards. Pre 2003 (Autumn/Winter 2002) the service was abysmal. Managment of BTOS has not in my opinion been of a high calibre and their customer relations are not resulting in a contented customer base.

I used to live in hope that these facts may dawn on them. Perhaps Im wrong and they are happy in the knowlage that they are doing a very good job.

I never occured to me that I would be responsible for maintaining the hardware, the service is so expensive I must have assumed the contract covered servicing.

Being pragmatic I would probably pay the £150 to ensure continuity with business, I would pay close attention to what the engineers find and if its due to anything other than standard wear and tear then request a refund.

Other people who have had trouble with BT in the past have had refunds for equipment etc, they did have to threaten court(as in actually start proceedings - it wont work to just say you will.)

Dont despair in any case, I thought ADSL would never come this part of the world, but it has, even the contact in Mid Wales is being enabled in June. When it happens to you you may wish to consider suppliers other than BTopenworld / BTYahoo as the ISP.
 
When the service was abysmal for you was that due to downtime or slow connections (or was it both?).

Part of my problem is not knowing if this level of downtime is really due to an equipment malfunction or problems at their end. If I believe them then it's my equipment. However, it would be nice to hear that from other 500/4 users as then I would at least be more certain that something is wrong. I think surely the service could not have this much downtime without everyone being up in arms... or could it?

Tomorrow I'll get the ladder out and check the connections on the dish.

While paying the £150 would be a pragmatic approach - I resent it. Particularly when I could be spending that £150 to move to another service. The *claim* is ADSL will be here from the 25th. I'll believe it when I see it. But then again I'm not sure that this ADSL package is the best for me anyway. I guess I have some hard choices to make.
Can it be any worse then BT anyway though?

Out of curiosity do you or does anyone else know what people do with this equipment post BT? I see that one sold on eBay - so what do people want it for?
 
Hi Joe,

Be carefull if you go up a ladder to the dish - for personal safety if nothing else.

In the past when the system has been going through rough patches there have been lots of 'me too' posts so its likely that the problem is with your system rather than system wide.

If there is a chance to get ADSL in a few weeks time then I would grasp it with both hands, there is no downside compared to BTOS, I have a 1mb business connection with much faster uploads than BTOS for less money.

I've said everything I can on this, perhaps some 500/4 users could pipe up and let you know how their connection is working, as all systems age Im sure there will be reports on common problems / fixes etc.

Stephen
 
Stephen,

The system is back this morning and it's very windy outside... which makes me wonder if it may be a moisture related problem (the wind would dry it out if so).

There is a downside to ADSL and that is the costs and the uncertainty of what the service is like. I've had BT ADSL before I moved here and that was a lot more reliable then the satellite solution. However, I've heard talk of capping on Kingston's service and it does require me to buy a router (unclear if there is hardware support on the router beyond it's warranty at this stage and not sure if I want to fall for that one again - at least not without knowing about it up front!). As usual with ISP's the capping policy is not stated clearly anywhere so it's hard to figure out if it's suitable for my business or not.

I do a lot of video and multimedia work - which means I need to LEGITIMATELY download and upload files that can be 100s of MB's in size. This is painful on upload with the satellite system. But I would not want to put money into another system where I'm told I must be an irresponsible P2P user or gamer to need so much bandwidth. (I don't need that much but a few GB's a week is not out of the question sometimes).

Anyway, thanks for your comments - maybe some others can comment on recent 500/4 reliability or on the other options open to me if they've experienced them (Aramiska Community or Kingston ADSL).

I will take care on the ladder (and turn the system off before going up there :))

Thanks again.
 
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Give SCS Ltd a ring they are there contracted engineers on 01925 859100 if no joy i know a couple of them that would look at it outside hours etc.
website for them is
www.scs.tv
 
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I plan to go up and check all connections as soon as it stops blowing a gale and raining. If I can't see anything wrong myself then I may do that and see what they say.

I'd have thought they'd want money to come out though so my main beef here is I thought I was buying hardware support as part of the deal with BT. But it appears not (i.e. BT should be paying for this or if they are not it should've been clearly stated up front that they will not support the system beyond the warranty period - it may be in the small print but I didn't see it and it seems neither did Stephen from what he says above).

I would also still be interested to hear from other people who have 500/4 on reliability recently in case it's not all just me.

Since you appear to be connected to Aramiska can I ask what Aramiska's policy on this? Do you also leave customers to sort it out themselves after the years warrany on the equipment has expired?

Thanks for the contact number anyway! :)
 
With regard to Aramiska....
If a customer has an on going contract with us we are liable to resolve any issues with the equipment whether its a remote management dianostic or whether the remidy requires a site visit.
cheers
Mike
 
Mike, so it would seem BT are unlike Aramiska in that if I were with you and the equipment broke down, say 2 years down the line, then you would take it upon yourselves to resolve the situation? Correct?

Your info means that I can perhaps consider Aramiska as another alternative. Although the community option (should it ever come to fruition in my community) may be the best bet for me from what I've been told (cost vs performance wise). So far however we are 7 people short of the required interest level... oh well maybe it will happen.

Thanks for the info. Perhaps I'll point it out to BT though I doubt it will make any difference knowing how they are... :(
 
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Hi Joe.
Yes you are correct.
If a customer is under contract with Aramiska then they are covered by a maintenance agreement.
Do you mind if I ask how much you are currently paying for your BT service.
I work very closely with a WISP called Langreen & you want me to contact them they will do whatever they can to help you to get 15 subscribers for they can install the Arc2000+ into the community.
The will also make you the agent for the area if you want which has some good benefits for you.
If you want to mail me I can be contacted at m.evans@aramiska.net
cheers
Mike
 
Joe said:

Thanks for the info. Perhaps I'll point it out to BT though I doubt it will make any difference knowing how they are... :(

You got no chance :laugh:
 
I just thought I'd let anybody reading this thread know what the eventual outcome was.

BT refused to do any work without payment of £150 - so it seems that hardware support is not included in the BT deal beyond the warranty period. This came as a surprise to me and obviously *as a business* I needed to consider alternatives. I can't be spending £1500-2000 on a new box if I need one in an emergency because the old one has blown up. So the writing was on the wall for BT irrespective of their generally not fantastic service.

I looked into Aramiska and Mike offered me a great deal and was very helpful. However, it was too expensive for my business so I had to pass on that. If you have the money though and are looking for alternatives I'd suggest looking at Aramiska.

There are now two other alternatives that appear to have arisen in my area and I am looking into going with one of those.

As regards my BT connection. Suddenly its started working again for no apparent reason. I went up to take a look at the dish but couldn't see any issues so I don't know what's caused this. After I'd looked at the dish it continued to be unreliable for a few more days and then suddenly for no apparent reason all was well again.

I am rather left to assume that the problem was nothing to do with anything at my end but at BT's (or the German hubs) end and suddenly they discovered whatever it was and fixed it.

If that is the case that's almost worse then being asked to pay the money to have it fixed IMO as they claimed there was nothing wrong at their end... Oh well, it's looking like I won't have to put up with this service for much longer anyway...

Thanks for everyones help and comments here.
 
I got a Bt 2-way 500/1 system, in perfect working and good condition. Its free to a good home if anyone's willing to pay the carriage for it.

Keith
 
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Selling up...

Would've thought you could've got a few quid for that Keith.. maybe you've just had enough and can't be bothered :) Anyway my 500/4 system will be going up on eBay in the next week or so if anyones interested :)
 
Did you not receive already a letter from BT Satellite indicating changes to your service and that BT will contact you shortly regarding a contract renewal. As I understand all BT Sat customers are to be moved to a new BT Sat Service which will be Aramiska, to use the new service will require dish realignmemt and equipment alteration. Not sure when this will take place my letter just says soon.

Me personally I won't be accepting the cost prohibits and the service is not that much of an improvement for the extra cost it will be back to ISDN for me.

Surprised I had not read a thread on this recent BT letter.
 
Changes...

I've had this letter even though I've now cancelled. It didn't say about Aramiska but I thought that BT would go with Aramiska as I'd heard they'd made a deal a while ago. What I'm most interested in is whether they will keep the same pricing - as Aramiska are more expensive then BT's offering.

I am using Aramiska's community package at the moment and can vouch for that (essentially a ARC2000+ shared with 15 or so Wireless LAN users). A fraction of the price and much better then BT's offering ever was! But I guess it may depend on how greedy for bandwidth your neighbours are :) (presumably mine aren't - or if they are I haven't noticed).
 
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